Extremely aggressive chow puppy

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waverider
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Extremely aggressive chow puppy

Post by waverider »

Hello, my name is Mike. I was given an 8 week old black female chow as a gift from my older sister. I've had *Gigi* for 5 weeks now, and everyday she becomes more and more aggressive towards me, as well as my mother and brother. She started out nipping at socks and shoes (not unusual for a puppy, I guess), progressed to biting at hands and arms, and now she clamps onto legs or shoes and won't let go. It's actually become very difficult to get her harness on her without getting a bite on my hand, which is really worrisome, as she's getting bigger (~30 lbs. now) and the force of her bites is getting worse.

I've tried most or all of the tricks people have listed here - distracting her with toys and treats, giving her quiet time in the bathroom, ignoring her, spraying water in her face, giving her a lot of exercise, and of course yelling *NO!* None of this has altered her aggressive behavior at all.

Gigi does usually behave o.k. early in the morning, but as the day progresses, she eventually goes into attack mode and her attacks just get worse and worse until we put her in the bathroom for the night.

I've thought maybe her increasing aggression throughout the day might be due to her not wanting to go into the bathroom at night, but she sleeps all night and never barks to get out until morning. I know it can't be due to lack of exercise, as I or my brother walk her around our yard or neighborhood several times throughout the day, and she has lots of toys to occupy her when she's in the house.

One would think a puppy would become less aggressive over time as it bonds with its family. In fact, that was true all of the dogs I've had previously, including another female chow who nipped a little when she was a puppy. Unfortunately, Gigi is only getting worse, and this is really troubling me, as I don't want to have to give her away to a shelter. She's a really beautiful dog, and does show affection to me and my other family members. If I can't get her to stop biting pretty soon, though, she's going to have to go, as I don't want her to injure my mother or younger brother. If any of you have any advice beyond the usual suggestions, I would really appreciate it.
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Ursa's daddy
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Re: Extremely aggressive chow puppy

Post by Ursa's daddy »

As I was reading your post, Malachi, my 75 lb male, came up to me, licked my feet, poked me with his nose and barked. He was trying to get my attention to let me know that the storm door was closed and he could not get out. My wife had closed the door to keep the cat from getting out.
At almost 30 lbs, it sounds like you have an adolescent female that was not properly socialized and she is challenging your authority and position. You have to correct this problem, because you are the alpha dog in the pack. I am going to assume that your dog knows basic commands. This is the starting point for training. It has been pointed out in a number of posts that your dog should know that nothing in life is free. The dog has to work to get something. You control the food source. If you haven't done so already, establish specific times and locations for feeding. Require the dog to sit and wait for the food bowl to be placed for her. If she doesn't want to go along with the program, then wait for her to conform. You may spend a while looking at the ceiling holding the food bowl waiting for her to sit, but you are going to have to be in charge of the situation. This follows through for any other interactions with the dog. She is going to have to sit and behave when you put on her harness. If she acts up, drop the harness and walk away. Give her a few minutes, and start over. She knows that she cannot open the door to go out, so she is dependent on your help. This is going to be a long process, but once she figures out that she does not control the situation, things will be ok.
Keep the forum posted on how things are going.
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Re: Extremely aggressive chow puppy

Post by Ursa's daddy »

go to the general discussion and check out the post by Victory » Sun Jul 31, 2011 for the topic "pup growls etc HELP ME".
waverider
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Re: Extremely aggressive chow puppy

Post by waverider »

Well, I've tried the suggestions about food training, and it turns out that Gigi is actually very well-behaved in that regard. She's not food aggressive at all, and will obey commands to sit and wait for food or treats. This training, however, has not stopped her attacks completely. She still gets in this mood - mostly in the afternoon, but sometimes in the morning as well - where she jumps on us and bites. I'm not certain if I should have used the term *aggressive* for this behavior, as she doesn't bark or bare her teeth; she simply walks up to me or my brother, and matter-of-factly clamps really hard on to our arms, hands, feet, or legs. She will often turn her eyes up while she's doing this, as if to say *look what I'm doing, what are you going to do about it?* She does bite really hard and sometimes shakes her head when she latches onto us, which I take it is a very bad behavior. The other day, she bit my brother so bad, he had blood streaming down his arm. (My mother popped her several times on the behind with a flip-flop during this very violent attack, and still she wouldn't stop biting at him.)

The curious thing about Gigi though is that she's mostly afraid of strangers, and while she will huff and puff at people at a distance, she will try and run from any stranger who gets too close to her. She's also mostly indifferent to our cats, and I've gotten her to relax and sit by them.

So far, the best method I've found to get her to calm down and stop attacking is to push her down on her side, put a rawhide bone in her mouth, and pet her into a relaxed state. This doesn't always work, however, as sometimes she is too agitated for me to get close to her. When she's in this really worked up state, she won't calm down for 30 minutes or more, and there's nothing we can do except try and stay away from her until her mood changes. I will say her attacks have lessened somewhat in frequency, if not intensity, so I guess I'm going to keep using this method while maintaining her food training.

BTW, does anyone know why some long-haired chow-chows have that puffy lion-dog look and others have a more lupine appearance? Gigi looks almost like a black wolf to my eyes, but some chow-chows pictured on this site look similar to her. My other chow-chow had that puffy lion dog look, and she was a much more gentle animal than Gigi.
Last edited by waverider on Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tippsy'smom
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Re: Extremely aggressive chow puppy

Post by Tippsy'smom »

First off, NO ONE should be HITTING her! That's just gonna cause more problems. It does NOTHING in the way of punishing. MANY dogs will just turn around and bite whoever hit them.

Second, I, nor any trainer, would suggest rolling your chow(or ANY dog) onto their side trying to calm them down. More often than not, they fight you and WILL bite in defense.

When she nipped as a LITTLE puppy, did you ever correct her? A stern "no" or a high pitched yelp? If you let her get away with it for a while, she began to see it as a game and as she's gotten older, her bite has gotten harder. And you said you'd tried the "time out" in the bathroom. I'm pretty sure the reason THAT didn't work is because you've taught her that the bathroom is a good place to be(she sleeps there every night), where as, when I do it with my dogs, they don't like the bathroom. Honestly, I have no advice on correcting the behavior. However, I suggest you find a trainer who can evaluate your situation and teach you what you need to do to correct her behavior.
Jess
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waverider
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Re: Extremely aggressive chow puppy

Post by waverider »

Tippsy'smom wrote:First off, NO ONE should be HITTING her! That's just gonna cause more problems. It does NOTHING in the way of punishing. MANY dogs will just turn around and bite whoever hit them.
I agree that no one should ever hit a dog, but even human beings have feelings and can become angry and lash out. This is yet another reason why it's important to get Gigi to stop biting people.
Second, I, nor any trainer, would suggest rolling your chow(or ANY dog) onto their side trying to calm them down. More often than not, they fight you and WILL bite in defense.
I've been watching the Dog Whisperer show quite a bit lately to try and get some ideas, and I've seen Cesar Millan grab aggressive dogs hard by the nape of the neck and slam them onto their sides. I've never done anything like that with Gigi. She generally flops down voluntarily or with a minimal amount of pressure when I put a rawhide bone in her mouth. She loves to lie on her side and chew while I rub her belly. I think she misses suckling from her mother and this sort of simulates that somehow.
When she nipped as a LITTLE puppy, did you ever correct her? A stern "no" or a high pitched yelp? If you let her get away with it for a while, she began to see it as a game and as she's gotten older, her bite has gotten harder.
I've tried yelling *NO!,* yelping in pain (sometimes for real!), distracting her with toys, spraying water in her face, everything like that. These techniques usually just make her bite harder.
Honestly, I have no advice on correcting the behavior. However, I suggest you find a trainer who can evaluate your situation and teach you what you need to do to correct her behavior.
I just hope I haven't made mistake trying to raise a purebred chow-chow. She's clearly not like the three other dogs I've had - a Rottweiler/German Shepherd mix, another female chow-chow (black tongue and very chowlike, but no papers), and a Schnauzer mix. None of them ever showed any real aggression, even though the chow-chow nipped a little when she was a tiny puppy. I'm beginning to believe that maybe chow-chows do deserve their repuation as an aggressive breed, and that may well be the reason I've never seen one featured on the Dog Whisperer show.
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Tippsy'smom
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Re: Extremely aggressive chow puppy

Post by Tippsy'smom »

You do NOT need to be taking training "lessons" from watching Cesar Millan. MANY of his "techniques" are frowned upon by trainers who really know what they're doing. And no, chow are NOT "deserving" of their "vicious" reputation.
I agree that no one should ever hit a dog, but even human beings have feelings and can become angry and lash out. This is yet another reason why it's important to get Gigi to stop biting people.
That does NOT give ANYONE a right to hit a dog. Be it with their hand or with a flip flop. It doesn't matter, people NEED to control their anger. Anger accomplishes NOTHING with dogs.

Do you know ANYTHING of how she was raised with her breeder? Living conditions, socialization, handling, etc.? Those things COULD be the key to what's wrong.
I just hope I haven't made mistake trying to raise a purebred chow-chow. She's clearly not like the three other dogs I've had - a Rottweiler/German Shepherd mix, another female chow-chow (black tongue and very chowlike, but no papers), and a Schnauzer mix. None of them ever showed any real aggression, even though the chow-chow nipped a little when she was a tiny puppy. I'm beginning to believe that maybe chow-chows do deserve their repuation as an aggressive breed, and that may well be the reason I've never seen one featured on the Dog Whisperer show.
You've had a chow previously, and you're seriously gonna say this? maybe you're right, should've stuck with another breed. Chows are NOT for everyone. But it's too late for that now, if you turned her over to a "shelter" they'd kill her because she has a "bite history" and would be deemed unadoptable. And THIS is why people need to do research on not only the breed, but the breeder they're going to be getting their puppy from BEFORE they get the puppy. And NO puppy should EVER be given as a gift.

And I've seen chow mixes on the dog whisperer.
Jess
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Katjusa
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Re: Extremely aggressive chow puppy

Post by Katjusa »

Tippsy'smom wrote:And NO puppy should EVER be given as a gift.
I agree with you completely there ... I've said this quite a few times on this forum already I believe.
again and again people come here asking for help after they've received a chow puppy as a gift.
It's qite sad really ...

To waverider I'd only recommend finding a professional who'll show the whole family how to deal with their puppy.
But I do feel thet you've already given up, am I wrong? With a chow, understanding of the breed's character is a must. Go to the library, borrow a few books, contact other chow owners and visit them to see how they live.
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Re: Extremely aggressive chow puppy

Post by tabate45 »

your puppy appears to not be well socialized. Chows need more than just the immediate family to learn to behave. Is there a dog park or something near you? Give her plenty of rawhide toys and squeeky toys. These puppies need lots of playtime and lots of attention. My chow puppy was quite a nipper when he played. When he got too aggressive we did pretty much what you are doing and as he got older he grew out of it. I own a bar and took my puppy there everday and today he is very well behaved. Make special time to do basic command training....sit, down, etc. And take her on some very long walks. Long to her might be 10 blocks of so. Good luck.
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Re: Extremely aggressive chow puppy

Post by Cocoa »

Correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like Gigi is still a teething puppy. You posted that she was 8 weeks old when you got her and as of July 29 you had her for five weeks, that would make her about 16 weeks at this point. At that age a puppy is going to be testing your limits as well as teething drastically. With Cocoa when she tried to use our ankles, toes, fingers etc. as a teething ring I would hold her by her collar on both sides of her head so she couldn't bite and made her sit until she calmed down. If she tried again when I let her go I would do it again for a little longer. It did not take any time at all for her to understand this was not acceptable behaviour.
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Re: Extremely aggressive chow puppy

Post by Ursa's daddy »

I agree with Cocoa.

she simply walks up to me or my brother, and matter-of-factly clamps really hard on to our arms, hands, feet, or legs. She will often turn her eyes up while she's doing this, as if to say *look what I'm doing, what are you going to do about it?*


Your dog is testing you. Cocoa suggested grabbing her collar and holding her. I always favored grabbing a handful of that fur collar; holding on the the side and not the top or bottom. That is what momma dog would do to a misbehaving puppy. You can "bark" a NO to reinforce the point. The fact that she looks at you when she grabs you is an indication that she is actually wanting to know your response. You have to communicate that you do not find this acceptable behavior. Look at her and show in your face that you are not happy. Thousands of years of selective breeding have brought us dogs that do understand if a human is happy or unhappy.

keep us posted on how it is going.
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Re: Extremely aggressive chow puppy

Post by BeckiHutton »

I think that when you put her on her side, if she likes that and you do it when she misbehaves, that is actually praising her for her bad behavior. if this is the case, you need to stop it. chows are not aggressive under correct ownership. my Lily absolutely loves everybody and everything. she sits right in front of people so they have to stop and stroke her. all it took was a short time out in the toilet (or somewhere she doesn't like, somewhere she is less familiar with) and all the nipping stopped. you need to establish a new place for time-outs
Last edited by BeckiHutton on Thu Aug 18, 2011 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Extremely aggressive chow puppy

Post by Cocoa »

I always favored grabbing a handful of that fur collar; holding on the the side and not the top or bottom. That is what momma dog would do to a misbehaving puppy. You can "bark" a NO to reinforce the point.
That is exactly what I meant Ursa's Daddy, you just said it better, although I would usually hold both sides and make her look at me, I would also do the sharp "no" when she nipped. Chows are very smart, they learn very quickly if you are firm and consistent.

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Re: Extremely aggressive chow puppy

Post by Ursa's daddy »

Well thank you for the comment. I forgot to mention making sure she had eye contact with you. They are like children, and want to give you that "were you talking to ME?" look if you don't have their attention. You are correct about the SHARP "no." While dogs really don't understand many words, they do understand the inflection. Being firm helps, and being consistent is very important.
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Re: Extremely aggressive chow puppy

Post by Cocoa »

You are so right, they are just like little children and the eye contact is very important to make sure you have their attention. When my kids were small I would do almost the same thing when they weren't listening, hold them by the shoulders and make them look at me while I talked to them. O:)
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Re: Extremely aggressive chow puppy

Post by Ursa's daddy »

I would like to hear from Mike about Gigi. Is this discussion helpful?
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Re: Extremely aggressive chow puppy

Post by waverider »

I'm happy to report that Gigi is doing a lot better now. She still bites at my ankles sometimes, but she doesn't clamp down as hard, and her all-out attacks are much less frequent. I've determined that she goes into her attack mode for one of three reasons: she wants to go outside, she's fighting against sleep, or else she's about to have a bowel movement. The first two situations I can handle fairly easily, as I just take her outside or else put her up for the night. The third situation is harder to handle, as she can get really agitated just before she has a bowel movement. I suppose she just doesn't like doing it, but I don't see why it should cause her to start attacking people. In any case, the all-out attacks aren't nearly as frequent or as violent as they were before, and that's a good thing, because she's getting really tall and heavy, and her permanent teeth are coming in. To be honest, I know she's really just playing with me even when she goes into one of these all-out attacks, but it's still frustrating when it happens.

I appreciate all the suggestions everyone has offered, and some of them seem to have helped a lot, particularly the idea of giving her treats in return for good behavior. While I haven't been able to teach her many commands, she will sit down now when I snap my fingers...well, at least some of the time. I'm hoping that if I just keep up the positive reinforcement, she will stop biting completely at some point. Anyway, thanks for the help, and I'll keep you up-to-date. BTW, here's a picture of the little devil taken the day we got her:

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Ursa's daddy
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Re: Extremely aggressive chow puppy

Post by Ursa's daddy »

She is beautiful.
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Re: Extremely aggressive chow puppy

Post by Cocoa »

Absolutely gorgeous! I'm glad to hear that her behavior is improving, just stay consistent with her and she will be fine. The nipping should stop completely once all her adult teeth are in.
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Re: Extremely aggressive chow puppy

Post by ChowGirl2013 »

Hi Mike,
is your issue with the biting/nipping solved. I have a puppy 4months old with the same outbursts and we usually find it happens just before it poops.
Can you advise how it was solved and how old it was when the issue was completely resolved. We are anxious to understand the issues at hand so that we can be hopeful that this phase will pass.
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