Food Aggression issues towards other dogs

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jbaker085
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Food Aggression issues towards other dogs

Post by jbaker085 »

Hello all!

This is my first post to the forum... I was hoping my first wouldn't be a "HELP ME" post, but here it goes... I have a 4 mo old female Chow Chow (Minka) and a 5 year old female French Bulldog (Remi). We've had our Chow since she was 8wks old, and she's been a dream so far! Having owned a chow/german shepherd mix before, I was aware of the temperment and stubbornness (which I personally find endearing as much as I do frustrating:). She LOVES other dogs, including our grumpy french bulldog and hasn't exhibited any dominant or aggressive behaviors until recently. We went out of town for the weekend and my brother watched the dogs at his house. When we got home I noticed a change in both dog's demeanor; very tense. That night was the first fight; over treats (Our bulldog got a little too close, which was my fault). We feed the dogs at the same time every night, with our older bulldog being fed first, then the Chow second, and only after she "sits and waits for it". So they're going at it, neither one backing down and I had to pull them apart; I grab Minka by the scruff of the neck and pull her back. She growls at me--- I give her a verbal "NO", and take her upstairs and put her in her crate to cool off. This has happened 2 times since then, once over a piece of food that was accidently dropped on the floor, and the second while watching me eat. She gives off a warning growl and tenses up her body. I snap my fingers and say "NO!", but the frenchie doesn't help matters by refusing to back down. When I try to intervene she growls at me. I want to try to nip this in the bud while she's young enough... But I've called several trainers and they won't deal with a dog that has "aggression issues". I'm not getting any support, and everyone I talk to has the same chow-phobias. I refuse to give up and "getting rid" of a dog is NEVER an option. I just don't want to isolate her from the family. Does anyone have any ideas of what to do? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
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Sarahloo
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Re: Food Aggression issues towards other dogs

Post by Sarahloo »

It must be frustrating for your Chow to wait for her food while her friend is already eating. Why do you not feed them at the same time? I've never heard of making one of your dogs wait for their meal while the other is already chomping away happily.
From reading your post, I didn't really get the idea of what exactly was going on food-wise when your Chow displayed signs of temper. Maybe you can explain it again?
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Sarahloo
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Re: Food Aggression issues towards other dogs

Post by Sarahloo »

And oh, Loo wants to marry your little Chow girl. He says she is so cute and she can have all of his food! :D
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jbaker085
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Re: Food Aggression issues towards other dogs

Post by jbaker085 »

Hi Sarahloo, thanks for your quick response! Yes, let me clarify a little better... I tend to be long winded. I should say that I SERVE the older dog first; I don't make poor Minka wait until Remi is done. I was told by the breeder that when you bring a new puppy home that she has to learn to "respect her elder" (i.e. the older dog), by allowing the older dog to eat first, you're establishing a hierarchy. For example, I eat first, then Remi, and then Minka. By making her wait to eat, I then reinforce that I am the alpha and am in control of her food. Is this wrong to do? Yikes, I'm going to feel bad if the solution is as simple as that!

Here's an example of a fight:
I call my bulldog over to me, make her sit, shake and lay down; then she gets her treat. While she's chewing up her food I make Minka sit, shake and lay down (yes, she does all three on command! Took us 15 mins!:). So While Minka is chewing her treat, my bulldog is standing next to her (but NOT trying to take it away, I guess just too close for comfort). Then Minka begins to growl and tense her body, hanging her head low. My bulldog growls back, and bam! Dogfight.

Now the first example I can understand... I just won't give them treats together, right? But NOW when I'm eating, Minka stands guard and won't let Remi anywhere near me, or the food source.

Again, I appreciate the input from you AND Loo:)
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Tippsy'smom
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Re: Food Aggression issues towards other dogs

Post by Tippsy'smom »

Don't feel wrong for the way you're feeding your 2. That's exactly what I do with my 3. My 10 y/o chow girl, Tippsy, is given her food first, then my 2 y/o, chow/lab mix boy, Jasper gets his second, and then my 8 or 9 m/o GSD mix gets her's last and they have NO problems with it.

But I ALWAYS make sure there's distance between my dogs when ANY food is involved. And I don't let them watch me eat. They all have a place I make them go (i.e. Tippsy lays by my feet,she's ALWAYS done it and I don't intend to change that for her; Jasper lays on the sofa in the living room, and Dixie lays on her bed in the living room) and if ANY of them even seem like they're gonna do anything they either get kenneled, sent in the bathroom, or put in the basement.
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Merlin
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Re: Food Aggression issues towards other dogs

Post by Merlin »

She gives off a warning growl and tenses up her body. I snap my fingers and say "NO!"
Snapping fingers is only good if you have actually trained this dog to become submissive to the sound of the "snap". If you haven't, it does nothing.

Whenever something goes wrong, it's always helpful to go back to basics. The fact that your dog growled at you during your attempt to take food away means you need to go back to basics, and while you might think it's a better solution to feed them separately, it's far better to feed them all together and establish a routine that works for you. This lessens your load and makes for happier meal times. It's also a sign that there is a mis-interpretation on your Bully's part. We have to feed upwards of 10 dogs at a time here and they all eat together, and each dog here has various stages of training, some have none, some covet food, some are literally ferral and they ALL have to learn to eat together.

Also, puppies are very instinctual, so it's normal that they have limited manners in any multi-dog situation and generally speaking the puppy would be corrected by an adult ( which could be what your bully is trying to do), but chows being chows, are too stubborn to back down, so you, yourself need to assume that role.. the role of teacher and moderator.

If feeding them separately, works for you, that's fine. - but - By feeding them separately, what you are doing is avoiding the problem and that's all you are doing. You aren't correcting the problem and you need to get a grasp on a dog that growls at it's owner when food is present will do this whether or not you are alone or with other dogs. This is a serious issue that only escalates with time and should be worked on.

Rule#1 - always , always, set yourself up to win.

Make sure that both your dog knows 'sit" and "stay". ( it will help you)
If for any reason they don't know this, it's time time to teach this to them and make sure t hat this entry level obedience command is crystal clear in their heads.
When a new dog arrives here, they are given food in a bowl. I stand near their lead, sometimes have to stand ON t heir lead, I keep them focused on their food bowl by kindly pushing them towards their food bowl with my shins. If they try to run to another bowl, I stand on the lead, say "no", and bring them back to their own bowl. There is roughly 6 feet inbetween all dogs, in established packs there is less. Sometimes only a foot or two.
You can see a bumch of dogs eating at:
http://www.merlinshope.com/2010/index.p ... icleid=101

Find a room big enough for all three of you.
Make sure both dogs are wearing a lead line.
( You need to be able to follow up any command that may fail during this period, and a lead line is your friend)

Put both of them in a sit/stay. Put the bowls down and release them from their sit stay to that they can eat.

You make sure you're standing in the middle of the two.
Always make sure YOU are standing in between the two, because you are the controller of the room at this stage.

Both heads should be in their respective bowls. If not, YOU are there to control that. If one dog feigns interest in another dog's bowl... you shuffle over with your legs and push that dog back to it's own bowl. If one dog isn't hungry - or is too busy watching the other dog - too bad - take the food away, and put that dog outside. No food until next meal time. The moment the dog(s) are finished eating, you put them out immediately.

In essence, at mealtime, they should eat, then leave the room right away - in this way, they become conditioned to leave the room and go on to some other activitiy, rather than have the time to start to develop other ideas. ( the devil finds time for idle paws)

It takes your consistent input to achieve that.
- They can only stare at each other if YOU let them - so don't! - pull them apart and focus their attention elsewhere
- They can only get into each other's space if YOU let them - so don't!- make sure they know they are in the room to eat
- They can only start a fight if YOU let them - so don't! - if t hey've reached this part then YOU weren't "at the party" and totally "missed the boat". You need to stay connected with them while they are eating. Stay in the room, stand in between them, and remain centered as a vigil, so that they learn to eat and leave.

You need to be faster on your mark and pay closer attention to everything and don't let a situation occur that allows them to escalate into taking over the situation in your kitchen.

If you have to take food away, and you get growled at, well, you now have a leash on your dog that will allow you to control him, and correct him, without jeapordizing your hands to his teeth. Put him back into a sit/stay with one hand while you move the bowl away with your foot.

For the growler, you can actually use this as an exercise to condition the dog into knowing that you have "top dog" rights to it's food.
In a natural setting, if the top dog came into the room towards your bully, your bully would step back and walk away without hesitation, so that's why I'm suggesting that you go back to basics and really re-establish your relationship with this bully, because you are not who you think you are in his eyes.
It's unfortunate that you cannot find someone to work with you on this because it can easily help break the cycle that your Bully is going through.
With dogs that are food aggressive around other dogs, free feeding isn't a viable option.
But NOW when I'm eating, Minka stands guard and won't let Remi anywhere near me,
Again, dogs can only do what we allow them to do. Move Minka away from you. Put her somewhere else in the room, it's that simple. Don't let her/him to claim any space around you at all.
Last edited by Merlin on Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:33 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Sarahloo
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Re: Food Aggression issues towards other dogs

Post by Sarahloo »

Thanks for clarifying!
I had that problem recently with a foster cat that didn't want to let Loo eat :D !
Random ideas:
- feeding them in seperate rooms
- not giving them treats while they're standing next to each other
- making it clear that there is more than enough food for everyone by giving them access to dry kibble all day long
- could your Chow actually be hungry? maybe she needs more? she's still growing, isn't she?

Just think about it and you will find your own creative solution for your problem!

About feeding the bulldog first: I doubt the bulldog is going to be the top dog of your two-dog household. It's not you who gets to decide who's boss. You might be backing a leader that isn't really the leader of your dog pack at all. That probably isn't a good idea!
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