Yogi getting aggressive again

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belle
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Yogi getting aggressive again

Post by belle »

I have been bringinig Yogi to the same daycare for many months now for about twice a week so he can learn to socialize with other dogs, they didn't like him much when he was younger because he gets into fights with other dogs and staff would try and break the fight and he will turn and bite them too. Anyways, after visits with the behaviorist, he seems to have improved a lot specially after he was neutered, he is being a really good boy at home, and I was told in the daycare that he's come a long way, he listens to me and follows me around the house. Yesterday, I picked him up from the daycare, I was told to do something about Yogi's aggression, because he's been getting into fights again and bit the staff that tried to break the fight. I was really surprised to hear this, because he has been so well behaved at home, and I am just so troubled by this incident. Should I just stop bringing him to daycares? :cry: I feel bad for him because I know he loves going to the daycare.
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Victory
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Re: Yogi getting aggressive again

Post by Victory »

Yes. I'm guessing he's not really starting the fights, but the staff will say he is because he is, "A CHOW!" But many other breeds don't like chows on sight and smell. Chows look to many other breeds to be agressively posturing, (the stiff back legs, that stand up mane) and chows don't smell right, you've probably seen many posts about how much people like the way their chows smell, well unfortuneately that is because they don't smell like DOGS, and other breeds react to that agressively. Also neutered or not most male chows will NOT submit to another dog, (the females won't either) In their own house they will find their place in a multiple dog household, but out in the world, no way.

As far as his biting the staff members when he is in a fight, any human that gets between two dogs when they are fighting should expect to be bitten. When it has escalated into a fight, it's pure adrealine for the dogs involved, people no longer exist, control is lost completely and if you get between them they don't even know you are there. What's more, the staff at the daycare aren't you; if as I suspect; they have problems with his being a chow in the first place then he most likely only tolerates them anyway, he doesn't feel that he can trust them or that they will look out for him, and feels that he has to protect himself and from them if necessary.

Relationships between dogs are very complicated, it's not straight forward, but the one thing is that the dog, especially a chow, has to feel secure even against other dogs. I can stop a fight between my two even over food, and I can stop any aggressive behavior when we are out on the street, because they know I have their best interests in mind and heart. When I say tell them to chill, or aught, or no, they listen because they know that I will be fair, firm and protective.

Yoda trusts you, and he might trust other people who actually like him, but believe me he knows when someone doesn't like him, or is slightly or more than slightly afraid of him. Remember for a canine fear and agression, sound the same, (increased heartrate) smell the same, (adrenaline has a smell, sweat) and looks the same, (narrowing of eyes, stiffened limbs). And a dogs response to either fear or aggression is often the same, aggression in return.

It is a human concept that dogs need to socialize outside their packs...but it's not true, they should tolerate the presence of other dogs on the street without being aggressive, (no lunging or growling, vicious barking etc) but playing with other dogs, like a group of human kids, is not necessary. Never forget they are dogs, canines, not human and what we need is not necessary for them.
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belle
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Re: Yogi getting aggressive again

Post by belle »

Hi Victory, Thank you for helping me look at this at a different perspective, it's just too bad that Chows are so often misunderstood, bec Yogi is truly a sweet dog, I was hoping that by bringing him to daycare, I am making the world a little bigger for him, that his world is not just limited to within the walls of our house, am I making any sense? this daycare that I bring him to use to be owned by his trainer and she was awesome with him, but unfortunately, it's getting a little too much for her and sold the daycare, and is now under new ownership for 2 weeks now, I wonder if that has something to do with it or just coincidence, maybe that's why he wasn't as excited to go there lately. :idea:
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Victory
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Re: Yogi getting aggressive again

Post by Victory »

That could very well be, if he's not excited that's telling you that something is wrong. Too many people are scared of chows and believe all the bad stuff about them. Chows are very sensitive to their environment and it only takes one person to make what used to be a good fun experience for him, turn into a stressful one. Stress like that is unhealthy for him. It is true that dogs need the mental stimulation of new environments, but they actually prefer to explore those environments with you at their side. For my two, it can be just going a different way on our walks, (after the winter, it's as simple as returning to the park) Since I got the car, I also include car rides, we drive around together, they get to see and smell stuff we go to the drive through...they have fun, I have fun. And you should see the traffic we stop. :D
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lightforce18
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Re: Yogi getting aggressive again

Post by lightforce18 »

my chows name is Yogi as well. He used to be like that as a baby, and still is toward new dogs he hasn't met. He just plays rhough. They either play back like that or it gets serious. But once he gets to know the dog after 10 minutes he loves them lol. Hes crazy
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Re: Yogi getting aggressive again

Post by Auddymay »

Chows are not social animals, which is to say, most don't frollick and play like a Lab or Golden would. At the Chowfests I have been to, the Chows mill about each other and observe, sneaking a furtive but polite sniff of the breeches of a Chow passing by them. Only once did I have occasion to see another Chow act boldly toward Lily, and even then, she just skittered away from him...lol. They like their personal space, and would occasionally grumble at the other Chow if their space is invaded. These signals were understood between these Chows, that had never met before. These signals aren't always universal in the canine world.

You need to place an ad, looking for someone with a female Chow. Surely there is someone looking to make a little extra pocket money and socialize their own Chow(s) in the process. Of course, it would be like interviewing a baby sitter, but if Yogi gets a little more socialization without the pressure of 'group play', it would be win-win!
belle
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Re: Yogi getting aggressive again

Post by belle »

So yesterday, I brought him to daycare again one last time. nobody's home all day and I didn't want to leave poor Yogi alone, they said he was aggressive so they put hin in the kennel pretty much most of the day and the explanation she gave me is "it's the chow in him", I am not going to argue with that ignorance so I paid her and left. So I realize now that looking for another daycare is really not going to fix the problem, because we will just go through the same thing again and I am just stressing the both of us out, my question now is, is it okey for an 8 month old chow to be left alone for 8 to 9 hours a day, for just twice a week? will they be able to hold their pee for that long without damaging their bladder/kidneys?
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Re: Yogi getting aggressive again

Post by Victory »

belle wrote:So yesterday, I brought him to daycare again one last time. nobody's home all day and I didn't want to leave poor Yogi alone, they said he was aggressive so they put hin in the kennel pretty much most of the day and the explanation she gave me is "it's the chow in him", I am not going to argue with that ignorance so I paid her and left. So I realize now that looking for another daycare is really not going to fix the problem, because we will just go through the same thing again and I am just stressing the both of us out, my question now is, is it okey for an 8 month old chow to be left alone for 8 to 9 hours a day, for just twice a week? will they be able to hold their pee for that long without damaging their bladder/kidneys?
Too bad day care didn't work out. Not your fault or his, the people just didn't want to try. Ah well, you are right trying to fix all the ignorance in the world is a lost cause.

So. Yes it is okay for an 8 month old chow to be left alone for 8-9 hours a day for just twice a week. At that age his bladder has grown up and his control should be there as well. if he's used to going out on demand though, you might want to start him on a schedule when you are home, take him out right before you'd be leaving on those two days, give him a good walk so he can fully empty himself, then he doesn't go out again until you'd be coming home. Also beware of, "how dare you go off and leave me, I'll get back at you!" peeing. If you have a nice big kennel for him to be in at home, use it for the first few times to prevent this attitude thing.

Also watch out for separation anxiety issues, my Darkwind was ok with me being gone for 9 hours for work everyday, but when I started going to school and it was 9 hours, then 3 hours with a quick run home for potty break for him, he got clingy even if it was just for one night a week. We got Firesong and he relaxed again. I could even be gone for 2 nights a week.
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belle
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Re: Yogi getting aggressive again

Post by belle »

I left Yogi yesterday at home for 9 hours in our master bedroom bath, it"s about a 10'x20' area with a big skylight so it's nice and bright, I turned the radio on for him and we have put up a gate so he can't roam free anywhere else, I put a pee pad on the floor just in case and when we came home, I am glad I did because he used it, I am quite amazed that he relieved himself just enough for the pad to hold (I know his normal amount of pee), so my son let him out as soon as he got home from school. everything worked out well after all. \:D/ Although I still need to address his behavior with other dogs though,I took him out for a walk last night, and he saw another dog and went crazy as if he wanted to devour the huge dog, I don't expect him to be all lovey dovey with them but I would want him to be calm and alright with other dogs walking. :roll:
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Re: Yogi getting aggressive again

Post by Auddymay »

My Lily does that as a protection to keep other dogs away. With her it is all bluff, and she only uses it now and then, but she continues because it works! Always on lead, always an approaching dog... I cannot know what your boy would do for a follow through but Lily runs. She has had several 'free' dogs approach her while tied in my yard and she evades if they get too close, but runs with them if they are going away from her. You need to work work work on this to eliminate it permanently. I'm an awful back-slider.

To end this behavior, you need them to obey 'watch me', use blocking, and walk the opposite direction at first grumble...more involved, but find a trainer to show you these techniques, it is a learn in one lesson practice constantly kind of thing.
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