Brother and Sister Chow Chows fighting, 4 months old HELP!!

Training and behavior topics, guidelines, and tips for Chow Chows.

Moderator: chowadmin

Post Reply
Kaylee
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 10:02 am

Brother and Sister Chow Chows fighting, 4 months old HELP!!

Post by Kaylee »

We have two chow chows, brother and sister that are 4 months old and up until a week ago they were getting along just fine. However, since then they can not be together. The male wants and has on two occassions attacked the female, who defends herself. We now have them in crates to separate them and we take turns playing with them and letting them out of their cages. Sometimes my husband takes one on a leash and I take the other in the same area and they just look at each other wanting the opportunity to get at each other, mostly the male. We have children and they are perfectly fine with them. We are concerned though about what to do now. We definitely want to try all avenues before the decision to separate them. We started puppy classes but now that they are not getting along the trainer doesn't think they should be there. Now, we are considering behavioral classes. We have an appointment on Thursday to get the male neutered, however, we not that is not a guarantee that the fighting will stop.

We recently had to put our Chow Chow down of 9 1/2 years as she got bit by a tick and her immune system failed. That was soooo hard.

I don't want to separate the pups as we are now attached, I hope someone may be able to give us some good advice.....these pups came a long way to be with us, they are from Brasil...we would like to keep them together, but we now if there is no answer for us.....we might have to let one go.

IF ANYONE HAS ANY ADVICE PLEASE WRITE.

Sincerely, Michelle
User avatar
Judy Fox
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 6320
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 9:49 am
Location: Cheshire, On The Island.(But always wishing she was back home in Wales)

Post by Judy Fox »

Hello again Michelle - my question answered!
Try to give it until after the boy chow has been spayed - this is so sad and I wish I had the answer for you.
Try to think back - did anything happen just before they started to fight?
What a damn shame!

Best of luck.
Image
(Thank you Sweetpea for my new banner.)
User avatar
Jeff&Peks
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 8386
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:29 am
Location: Los Angeles,, CA

Fighting Chows

Post by Jeff&Peks »

You think maybe its just an alpha thing, They are still young and possibly getting their chain of command in order in seeing who's going to be the head Chow around the house. I think some of the other 2,3 plus Chow homes that have posted in here have had similar problems in the beginning but now from what I read in the post the fighting Chows in the beginning can't live with out each other and get along great.

I've thought many times of adopting another Chow but my Chow will attack anything that comes within a foot of her, I have noticed that once she has made her point that she's the queen they all get along fine, she doesn't pay attention to them but there's no more fighting after she has established who's who. Not that she's running around town getting in fights but at the dogs parks if she's approched just a stare and a slight lift of the lip ( Elvis look) does the trick and they don't bother her.
User avatar
kingalls
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3513
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 9:09 pm
Location: Central California

Fighting Brother & Sister Chows

Post by kingalls »

Michelle,
Definitely have your Chows fixed. I think that will help alot. What do you mean attack? Was it truly an attack with biting, etc.? Although Shiloh is older, when Mr. N started "feeling his oats" he began to establish his dominance. This was keenly demonstrated with the food. I also witnessed one time where they were both going at each other, up on the hind legs, teeth showing. It scared me but they didn't actually hurt each other. The "bone" of contention was a raw bone. Although I gave them each a bone, Mr. N decided he should have both. Shiloh is very playful and Mr. Nahkohe will put up with her antics for a while but when he's had enough he will snap at her.
Whether or not they are brother and sister by birth, one of them will most likely establish himself/herself as the dominant one. My layman's opinion is that your two are trying to establish who is going to be the "top dog". Get them spayed/neutered. Maybe during their recuperation period, they could be together and re-establish a rapport. Once they are better they might need to work out the dominance issue. I think that is natural. Because they are brother & sister I don't think they would actually hurt each other....but I'm not an expert.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Karen
User avatar
Zhuyos mom
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 2712
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 9:37 am
Location: SF Peninsula

Post by Zhuyos mom »

Hi There!

I'm glad you got on this site and reposted! I've been meaning to send you my family's experiences on this matter but have been busy.

My family has adopted in pairs. Our first set of chows (know as our family chows) were brother and sister. Suntzu and Sunshine did fight from time to time when they were together. When they did, the family just separated them by hosing some water down on them and they would stop. Usually happened in the backyard when they played. The older they got the best of friends they became. Often it was Sunny (the girl and probably the runt of the litter because she was the last to find a home) would be in the instigator of all things naughty like opening the gate and taking a walk around the block with her big brother. Suttie was the only male in the litter and the first to find a home. He however, would always yield to Sunshine. These two were never fixed. However, I'm a big advocate in fixing.

Our second pair were two brothers... my Zhuyo and our Confuscious. Confuscious was brought in to be Sunshine's companion. The two boys were fine together until they turned 6 months. After that they would try to get into brawls and we never let them visit each other without one being on lead because at 6 months they were quite brawny. When they were on lead, they were both kind to each other. Zhu was fixed, Confuscious was not. Sunshine and Confusious lived together a couple of house up from our family home. My brother-in-law wouldn't allow them to be fixed. They fought alot but would subside on their own.

Our third pair were also two brothers (actually three, but #3 - Tao, lived with a non-relative)... LaoTzu and Kubla. Both were fixed. Both were banned from off-lead free playtime at puppy kindergarten because they apparently "ganged-up" on the other puppies. They got along fine. Just from time to time did they act up. Lao's a bit of a snob and chances are he started the rough housing, but they didn't fight too much.

I don't know if any of this helps you. But know that the behavior might be normal. If you can hang in there they might just work things out. Just don't get in the middle of them and don't try to physically separate them apart. You might get hurt and who knows, they might like the attention it elicits from you and repeat the fighting just for attention. Also, I think you might gain some peace of mind if you get them both fixed at 6 months. Last year I adopted Pooh Bear from our local shelter (she's the cinnamon one in the picture). She's bitten my handsome Zhu's face twice, but released immediately once I yelled "No" and threw the shake can near them. Both incidents happened inside the house. Then I bawled her out for such bad behavior, told her to give her big brother a kiss (which she did), then she went on her back to submit to her brother and life went on. So again, hang in there.
User avatar
Juniper
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 821
Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 5:38 pm
Location: Sacramento, CA

Post by Juniper »

I don't have experience with 2 Chows together - however - I have a lot of experience with animals and establishment of their "Pecking Order." Be it cats, birds, squirrels, wildlife and any commingling among different species.

I one time had 6 cats who got along famously well and then one day there was an all out brawl in the living room. The hair was flying, the pitch was intensely high, they appeared to lose all of their faculties and initially I attempted to stop it - they began to include me in whatever disagreement they were having and I decided to bow out of it and show them I was superior and not get involved (I had succumbed to one scratch and that was it for me and I was hoping they didn't notice that I had been injured or I would have been at the bottom of the pecking order!).

So, I just let it happen. Didn't interfere and as my heart ached I just stood there and watched. In about 3 minutes or less they handled their problems. They went off into their respective areas and I noticed from then on there was never an argument again. They settled it once and for all - who could cross what path, what favorite spots belonged to whom. In the future, they would just give "the look" if there was any disagreement to be had among them. Amazingly I didn't have any repair work to do on the cats. Just myself and to clean up all the gobs of hair after they finished. I let them all know my disagreement with all the cleaning they'd given me to do.

They appeared to discover what power they had in the process - even in dealing with other cats in the neighborhood and eventually helped each other whenever other cats entered their territory. They truly became a family and it was nice.

So, I wouldn't fret about the conflict - I believe it's all a part of the growing up process for your Chows. I also wouldn't get involved - it reduces your power and authority. I need to keep reminding myself that I'm the head honcho in the house - not my Sheena. And I do need to keep reminding myself! Once you get the male fixed one factor will be out of the way, however, they will need to still figure out their pecking order and discover how much power they have with others, be it people or other animals/species.

Personally, I find that if you allow animals to handle their own disagreements without ever getting involved - it handles much sooner, they don't ever really injure themselves severely and they don't lose respect for you.

Hope this helps.
Jennifer & Sheena
User avatar
Judy Fox
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 6320
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 9:49 am
Location: Cheshire, On The Island.(But always wishing she was back home in Wales)

Post by Judy Fox »

Sheena - I have not replied to this one because I have no experience of Chow Chows fighting - Milly and Mabel have never actually had a cross word and they absolutely adore each other. I hope it never changes - I don't think it will. :)
However, we too, at one time had six cats. We had three and then our daughter came home, bringing a 9 month old baby and three cats with her. Her black and white Hannah was Top Cat. All the cats were females and Hannah immediately walked round our house with the "Right, this is 'ow its gonna be, OK!" attitude. My own cats bowed down immediately, and even though there was not the 'cat fight' that you described, the rules were laid down.
Soon after that, our old Great Dane died and our daughter bought a beautiful little Llhasa Apso and six weeks later we brought our boxer Meggy home. Our Meggy was a sweet little boxer pup as only boxer pups can be and even though Humphrey was all of six weeks older, he immediately became the Boss. Throughout her life, Meggy would not start on her dinner until Humphrey had smelt it! He never attempted to eat her dinner - he would just walk over to it and smell it and then go to his own and start eating. Only then would Megs start on hers! As you say, they sort out their own problems and Pecking Order. 8)
Nine and half years later, when Meggy died and we brought 6 wk. old Milly home, he was disgusted and he told her so. She made the most beautiful chowling play signals to him and he turned his back on her. She got the message very quickly! Poor little love! He died soon after, and we bought Mabel and from then on she had the playmate she wanted.
So, I think your advice is sound and I will remember it in the future, if and when I need to introduce another member into the family. :)
Image
(Thank you Sweetpea for my new banner.)
User avatar
Juniper
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 821
Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 5:38 pm
Location: Sacramento, CA

Post by Juniper »

Sounds Milly and Mabel are sister/soul mates. Definitely a happy family. And thanks for the acknowledgement. :D
Jennifer & Sheena
Post Reply