training a chowchow

Training and behavior topics, guidelines, and tips for Chow Chows.

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daryl168yang
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training a chowchow

Post by daryl168yang »

is it really that difficult to train a chowchow? my richie has been put off the choke chain.

now for the down command, she responds OCCASIONALY.how can i make her respond everytime? when i uses treats, she will be too engrosed with the smell of the hand with the treats rather than the command. also, for the heeling, the auto sit iis with or without command? that is is he sup. to sit when i stop without prompt or should he sit when i give the command? :?:

also, he only responds to some commands out of the house and inside, he go bonkers and only responds following treats :evil:

my most concern is the down. he seems to dun noe what is it. he seem like he only respond when i am crouching down and not when i am standing up straight like when i give the sit command.

i have tried the methods for the down u all out there has recommended and he seems to know it but is defiant, what can i do??? :?: :?: :( :cry:
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Auddymay
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Post by Auddymay »

It sounds like you have seen the light about forcing Richie to learn. Richie will get better with practice. Practice practice practice! Soon, he will be doing 'rote' behavior- which is a learned behavior that has become second nature through repetition. Try and be the same everytime- find the way he responds the best, and just do it that way. My Lily is one year old next week. She knows how to follow a command, but if I am not using a certain command often, such as 'down', she sometimes will act like she doesn't know what I want her to do. I will then repeat my command with more 'business' in my voice and she then obeys. Chows can be stubborn, and they will test to see if you are on your toes, or letting them get by with not obeying you.
daryl168yang
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Post by daryl168yang »

yeah, thanks for that reply. so repeating commands are just second nature to rearing a chowling. seems that we have to practice more...
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Auddymay
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Post by Auddymay »

If you practice and really get Richie's response to become automatic, you won't need to repeat commands twice to get a response. If you are a lazy owner like I am, you will find that if you don't regularly use these skills, your chow will play you to see how far they can push the issue. My suggestion is to use all the commands Richie knows to keep it fresh and automatic.
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Rogansmommy
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Post by Rogansmommy »

Chows are not like normal dogs. They are highly intelligent. When you get an animal that is intelligent, you need to remember that they can think for themself. In the chows case, this means that they can logic out what you are saying to them. Every time you ask them to do something, in their furry heads they ask themselves, "Hmmm... now why do you suppose she wants me to do that?" If the answer is "Nah, I don't wanna." then you will not get the chow to do anything. Rogan has two obedience titles. In both cases, under many, many different training situations, he would choose to not do something at whim. We were at a show in Syracuse once and he DQ's on his recall! :shock: Something he'd been doing perfectly since he was 10 weeks old. Why? The place was VERY loud and crowded. He didn't like the environment. (BTW - he got all three of his CD legs at the same location: Hamburg NY. He loved the Hamburg show. :D )

This is why it is important to keep your training short and lighthearted. Your chow is not stupid; he just bores easily and you aren't being creative enough. Practice is definitely important BUT you need to mix it up. Short, 5-10 minute bursts work best with chowlings. Keeping it creative and fun (figure out what Richie finds fun. With chows that is easy to do. They smile when they are having a good time.) Dont' try to hammer one exercise before you go on to the next one, but never introduce more than one new exercise a week.

Rogan is now 8 1/2 and retired (bad knees). He remembers all of his commands but I no longer train him daily. As in the past though, if he's not in the mood, he won't do it. Nuclear missiles couldn't move him. :roll:
Michele

^Rogan^ at the Bridge on 5/16/09 -- always in my heart
daryl168yang
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Post by daryl168yang »

then what do you people do to ensure that they comply with the commands each and every time?

also, how do you guys get your dogs to keep looking at you whenever you are outside?

also, richie's bro has got hip dysplasia, as i know from the owner of that puppy, so what are the symptoms to look out for and what should he not do?
:)
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Rogansmommy
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Post by Rogansmommy »

daryl168yang wrote:then what do you people do to ensure that they comply with the commands each and every time?

also, how do you guys get your dogs to keep looking at you whenever you are outside?

also, richie's bro has got hip dysplasia, as i know from the owner of that puppy, so what are the symptoms to look out for and what should he not do?
:)
Daryl -- if you think you are going to get your chow chow to 'comply with the commands each and every time' then you have the wrong breed of dog. Chows are known for their independent nature. NOT for their willingness to obey.

Also, ALL chows are HUNTERS. Therefore, if you want to ensure that your chow stays near you KEEP IT ON A LEASH. You are going to lose your chow if you are under the delusion that you will be able to keep his attention on you. Chows are one of the few breeds of dog that could easily survive in the wild, without humans, imo. And to make matters worse, they know it.

As for the hip dysplasia, you should talk to your vet. At this stage, you would only be able to see symptoms if the dysplasia is severe.
Michele

^Rogan^ at the Bridge on 5/16/09 -- always in my heart
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Post by Auddymay »

Thank-you for clarifying with Rogan examples (which would be better than my Lily examples). I am of the impression Richie is quite young and just learning the ropes. Definitely make it interesting! It is also true you will probably never get total obedience. Read a few posts, and you will get an idea of the range of obedience we face as chow owners.
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Post by IliamnasQuest »

daryl, I have some questions for you.

How old is Richie?
When did you start training him with a choke chain?
Are you still training him with a choke collar?
What do you want from your relationship with Richie?

Your first post here was less than a month ago and you've asked several training questions. I get the impression that Richie is quite young and your training experience is limited. But we really need to know more in order to give you advice that will be more specific to your situation.

A young dog learns eagerly if handled the right way. Use of forceful methods like the choke chain and the yanking will build resentment and mistrust in your dog. Why should he do things with you if he can't trust you and thinks that you will cause him pain? A puppy should be handled gently and kindly, with firm insistence but not pain and force. You are destroying your relationship with Richie by using the methods you've described.

The chow is a breed with a high level of independence. Many have high prey drives too, which means that when outdoors they are looking for things to chase and catch. This makes it much more difficult to have a truly focused attention from a chow than it does from other breed who are not so intensely independent.

When I train a young chow, I figure that I will be doing a behavior for many MONTHS before I am sure my dog understands fully what I want. I do all of my initial training with lots of reinforcement and NO corrections. A puppy doesn't do things "wrong" .. a puppy just does what is natural for the puppy and it's up to us humans (the "smart" ones) to figure out how to explain to the puppy what we want. I repeat things over and over, gradually reducing the amount of treats I give but always using lots of praise and happiness in the training. If I train correctly, then my puppy will WANT to do things with me.

Having 100% focus outdoors is a difficult thing and something you don't truly get from many dogs, especially ones with natures like the chow. It can be done - but it's not going to happen using the methods that your trainer is having you use. You'll end up with a dog that will happily run off somewhere else away from the pain and fear of training. For now, your dog should always be on a long line so you have some control .. and the collar you use should be a buckle style collar and not one that causes pain.

As far as the down goes - you were just given the instructions on teaching a down a few days ago. It will take weeks for you to properly reward this behavior and fade out the treats more so that Richie is doing it consistently without having to have a treat right there. You have a lifetime with your dog - take your time and train slowly and consistently and kindly! You wouldn't be expected to go from beginning math to algebra all in the first grade. We shouldn't be that demanding on our dogs either.

I'd really like to hear more about Richie and about what you're doing with him - if you could answer the questions I asked it would help us understand where you're at in this training.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska
daryl168yang
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Post by daryl168yang »

"How old is Richie?
When did you start training him with a choke chain?
Are you still training him with a choke collar?
What do you want from your relationship with Richie? "

he is currently coming to 5 months this week. he started with the chok chain about 5 weeks ago and i hhave stopped using it already. i want us to have mutual respect yet, him responding to commands.

"Practice is definitely important BUT you need to mix it up. "

what do you mean by mixing the practice up? :?:

i would love to learn more about training chows from all you expereinced owners of chowlings. pls advise me on how to have a fully trained chowling. thx :) :D
IliamnasQuest
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Post by IliamnasQuest »

Hi daryl -

At five months old, Richie is still a baby. You can't expect a lot of really good trained behaviors from a five month old puppy of any breed, let alone a chow who has a mind of his own.

I have some of the best trained chows around and yet they still will at times do what THEY want and not what I want. It's part of who they are. You will never get them to act just like a golden retriever would - they are not bred to work with people like the retrievers are.

So, knowing that .. I would say that you need to relax on your training. Use lots of praise and don't worry if he doesn't always listen. Just be persistent. In teaching him down, use the treats at first and then use your hand without the treat, but give the treat after he lays down (have treats in your pocket or on a table). Praise him whenever he does what you like. Be happy with him and bond with him - that is more important at this age than worrying about whether or not he will sit or down.

I have some tips on teaching attention on my website that might help you out. He will also learn to work better for the food - you mentioned that he focuses on the smell of the food. By teaching him that when you have food in your hand he has to look at your face, you're getting him to ignore the smell of the food. http://www.kippsdogs.com/tips.html

Dogs take a long time to learn to ignore distractions too. When you train him in the house, it's very quiet and things are pretty much the same. Outdoors there are lots of things to look at! You have to plan on training him with a few distractions and then add in more as he gets better. Always figure that he's going to forget a LOT when you're outdoors and so you need to go back to the first parts of training. In the house he may sit without help or treats, but outdoors he will need more help to understand that he has to follow the "sit" command with the new distractions.

I don't go along with the whole concept of "defiance" in dogs. They simply do what suits them, but it's not a deliberate defiance of us. Sometimes other things are more important to them than we are, and it's our job to figure out how to be very interesting. Treats help, so does being very happy and using an upbeat voice to encourage him.

I show my chows in obedience and agility and they've done pretty well. But it does take a lot of time on my part - thousands of hours! And I don't expect any of them to truly mind well until they're a year old or older. Even then I have to keep adding in distractions. I just got back from a training session with Khana (almost 18 months old) and she was very distracted at first - pulling on the leash and wanting to play with the other dogs. I had to wait patiently until she turned her attention back to me so I could reinforce her looking at me. I also ran her around for a bit and wore her out some - she had more energy than she knew what to do with! But by the end of the class, she had settled nicely and we were able to do some good work.

Give it time - Richie's very young!

Melanie and the gang in Alaska
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