Moving, need behavior advice

Training and behavior topics, guidelines, and tips for Chow Chows.

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djtonyz
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Moving, need behavior advice

Post by djtonyz »

Hi Chow lovers:

I have a 13-year old Chow Chow who has done her share of damage to the floors and walls of many apts I've lived in over the past few years.

Mainly, her problems are scratching the door and the floor when I leave the house, and soiling on the floor, even though she gets walked three times a day by myself and my dog walker when I'm away at work.

She has free roam of my current apt, but I'm moving to a place that has rugs, which I'm gong to try and protect with plastic matting (like your grandmother used to have). Fortunately, there is a large kitchen with a tiled floor where I'm thinking of keeping her during the days when I'm working. I'm going to purchase a steel gate so she cannot leave the kitchen when I am not home.

I guess my question is, what experiences have people had with their stubborn Chows who don't take kindly to being left alone, even though they get their 3-time-a-day walks? What kind of toys do you think she'd be interested in at this stage of her life? What can I do to calm her when I leave my new apt.

Also, she has soiled on the hardwood floor in my current apt, which is parquet, so some of it can be replaced if need be, but then the floor won't match up. I'm trying to use Nature's Miracle to get the stain out. Does anyone know of any products that are better than Nature's Miracle?

What do you think I should do?

Thanks for your advice.
Best regards,

Tony & Jasmine
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ngraham
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Post by ngraham »

I really don't have any advice. My chows have always been fine when I had to leave them to go to work. And that's one thing I can also say, my chows were never destructive. Now I am sure since I said that, it is going to come back and bite me in the butt, but so far I haven't had any trouble with mine. My chows also have been very good about not going potty in my house. Once they were house trained, that was it. Chows as a general rule don't want to potty where they live. Kiwani may suggest giving your chow some B-Complex to lessen her stress levels. I know when I go to town today I will be picking up some more for my Koda. He'd been on the B-complex ever since he was neutered to help boost his immune system from the surgery and also help some other stress levels we were dealing with. But after we ran out, he seemed to be on an even keel and things were going great with him. But now that our new puppy is here, he is stressing. Plus we are getting ready to move also and the B-complex will help him through that adjustment also. So we are going back to the B-complex. It does help, I saw it in Koda. I'm sure Kiwani will chime in if she has any other ideas. Hope things get better for you.
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kiwani
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Post by kiwani »

Re: "What can I do to calm her when I leave my new apt."
---

You can look into the research on melatonin and separation anxiety. Melatonin helps us sleep at night, and acts as a "calming" chemical too, often used with phobic/anxious dogs. You can try tweaking her diet to optimize calming brain chemistry and lower stress, and if you haven't already done so, have a health check of her hormones.

As for the stained floor, ask at the hardware store for what's used to remove ammonia stains from wood (ammonia darkens wood).
IliamnasQuest
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Post by IliamnasQuest »

It sounds like your girl has a touch of separation anxiety and gets stressed when you leave - which results in the destructive behavior and the soiling inside the house. Dogs don't tend to do things deliberately (or out of "spite") .. she is simply trying to alleviate her stress. And at 13 years old, it's doubtful that you will change her behavior but you might be able to "soften" it a bit.

In addition to looking into the melatonin which kiwani recommended, I would encourage you to do a few simple things to help her not feel so stressed. I would say yes to keeping her in the kitchen area - that way the stress is less because you have less to be upset about. You being upset at her destruction will only increase her level of tension, so it's kind of a never-ending circle. By setting her up to have less opportunity to destroy things you will have less reason to be upset.

When you leave, you might consider leaving her with some special treats that she only gets when you are leaving. A kong toy (or some similar hard rubber type toy with holes in it) stuffed with bits of biscuits or kibble and either peanut butter, squeeze cheese or cream cheese will give her something to concentrate on for awhile. It takes a dog a bit of time to lick all the good stuff out of one of those. You can even freeze them to make it last longer.

Another good thing is a big raw beef knuckle bone. But if she's not used to raw bones, she may end up with a bit of diarrhea. My dogs love them and they'll spend a long time chewing on them.

There's also a big cube called a Buster Cube. This is something that you can put kibble in, and the dog rolls it around the floor and bits of kibble fall out. You can set it to release the kibble easily or a bit less frequently. This is a good time filler for the dogs.

All of these things are just to give your dog something to do to take her mind off of her anxiety.

When you leave, I'd recommend a quiet exit. Hand her the goodies, say good-bye and head out. You might try leaving a radio or TV on while you're gone too - that has helped with my separation anxiety dog.

And when you return, don't make a big celebration. Keep things quiet, greet her casually, take her out to go potty and then play and be happy and excited a bit later. Same thing with your dog walker - no big celebration when arriving and no big fuss over leaving. Your dog walker could also leave a special treat when she goes.

Hope some of these things helped! It's good to see others with teenage chows - my Kylee will be 15 in October.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska
djtonyz
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Post by djtonyz »

Wow, this is all some great advice. Thank you so much. Yes, I will try the b-complex and maybe leaving a treat when i go. I never thought of that, even after 13-years. And sure, she could probably use more toys that were mentioned here.

I'll work on it before the move and see if we can't modify her behavior. Maybe longer walks will do the trick too.

I'm moving to a better building where there are professional dog walkers in the neighborhood and the door staff walk dogs too, so I'm sure that will give her something more to look forward to.

I think my dog walker is nice, and I pay her, but I don't think she gets the timing thing on walking her at the right time, so we'll work on that too, when I move that is.

Thanks for all the super advice.

I know she must get stressed when I'm gone so long, sometimes 10 or more hours on a long day of work. Even with the dogwalker breaking up the day, I'm sure she's not to happy to be alone.

Thanks again!
Best regards,

Tony & Jasmine
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Jeff&Peks
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Post by Jeff&Peks »

I think leaving the tv on that was mentioned is a good idea i do that, Not loud just enough to make a little noise, may sound wierd but leave it on Nick at night the cartoon kid voices seem to help. Also just before you leave give her the treat or what ever your giving her, pet her and say you will be back later. The treat, the TV and the little chat before you leave. Don't just walk out with out letting her know your leaving.

10 hrs is a long time if your Chow dosn't have access to a yard, I use to take my Chow on our boat for lengthy times and the other boaters suggested those puppy pads i forget what they are called but people use them to potty train there pets to go in one spot, maybe try leaving one of those on the kitchen floor, not close to where your Chow is but somewhere she can go then get away from the spot. My Chow never had to go on the boat so i don't know if they work or not.
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Wollfie
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Post by Wollfie »

Here in California you can rent first floor apartments that have a small patio area (like 10'x8' maybe). Yearssssss ago, I used to live in one of these types of apts with 2 large Borzoi's (Russian Wolfhounds). They were my boyfriend-at-the-time dogs. They adapted to this situation very well -- I did not.
djtonyz
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Post by djtonyz »

Okay, here's the latest on Jasmine.

After moving to a very nice apt just along the Hudson River in Yonkers, NY, Jasmine seems to have adapted well to the environment outside the apartment. She seems to be much happier breathing the clean air, instead of inhaling the fumes of New York City living on 86th Street in Bay Ridge.

In order to calm her separation anxiety, I do give her treats when I leave and make a quiet exit. The treats take up some of her time, which is great, but she always ends up barking and scratching at the door anyway. So, she seems to be set in her ways. I got her a Kong ball, but she's got little interested in it, and I don't want to put anything in it that can attract bugs as it lays around on the floor. So, that hasn't been the best investment.

The good news is that I've improvised on a solution to the scratching that, although doesn't end it, makes it much more manageable. I bought a piece of 4x3 plexiglass from Home Depot and attached it to the door with heavy duty strips of velcro, so I wouldn't have to drill into the door with screws. I also got a 3x2 sheet of thin aluminum, which I've placed just under the door stop so the door open nicely, with the aluminum protecting the rug from her paws. Should have been something I did years ago to save on losing my security deposits with landlords in rental units, post Jasmine busy scratching.

I also got rug runner to protect the rug and she lies on them with no problems.

So, for now, I've got the situation under control. Even to the point that I keep her penned in the kitchen and front hall, and she hasn't tried to bit her way through the metal gate that seperates that area from my living room.

It's been such a relief. Steps I should have taken a long time ago.

I still want her to stop scratching and getting antsy when I leave. Tried the Melatonin for a week but no significance difference. So, that didn't help. Hopefully, as this 13-year old girl ages, she'l finally slow down a bit.

Tony
Best regards,

Tony & Jasmine
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kingalls
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Post by kingalls »

As others have mentioned, this does sound like separation anxiety. You've been given some good advice.
Do you leave any item that has your smell with your Chow to have while you are gone? Also, lots of talking to your Chow when you are going to leave - telling him that you will be back, etc. and leave him with a nice treat?
Have you considered a brother or sister for your Chow? It's twice the work but it might solve some of the problems.
Karen, Kohana, Takoda, and our Chow Angels Nahkohe and Shiloh
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Jeff&Peks
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Post by Jeff&Peks »

I don't agree with the quietly walking out, She turns around to find you and you are gone she goes into panic mode looking for you, thinking you disappeared. I think you should talk to her and tell her you have to go but you will be back later, You should also leave a TV on.

My Chow has never been left alone during the day or at any time her entire life (10) but in the past 6 months I have had to leave her for about 6 hours aday, I have never had a problem. I leave the TV on for her and just before I leave I tell her I will be back later then we can go for a walk. I don't use treats, food or drugs as a pay off.
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Post by sweetpea »

I agree with Jeff, I wouldnt leave quietly like that. Up until we moved here, Gracie was never alone. I was always home with her, if we went out and she had to stay home she always had Princess to play with, so she was never alone.
I always tell her I'll be back. She'll go lay down, look at me with sad eyes to make me feel guilty. most of the time I leave the tv on for her. When I get home, she does her happy dance then we go for a walk. So far I've had no problem with her.
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Mandy
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Post by Mandy »

my boy chewie was never destructive but I know he was lonely when we would leave. We are now 99% sure they sleep most of the time we are gone, despite a large space to roam, toys, food etc... but at least they have each other. They seem quite content to hang out together most of the time.

Good luck and glad you found some things that work for you.
Mandy, Chewie, & Cayenne
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IliamnasQuest
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Post by IliamnasQuest »

It sounds like you've found ways to manage the problem, which is often the best thing to do with an older dog. Glad it's working!

On the quiet exit: I still recommend an exit with no fuss. Just because it's a quiet exit doesn't mean a person is sneaking out! I credit my dogs with enough intelligence to know that when I give them a treat and say "bye, I'll be back later" and quietly walk out the door without any further fuss, they understand that I'm gone. I've worked with people who made a huge fuss over their dogs before they left and the dogs got upset because of it, which only increases the problem. A calm and quiet exit is the best thing to do.

It's very hard to change the established behavior of an older dog, but sometimes just finding ways to deal with it works best.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska
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willowchow
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Post by willowchow »

Well, it seems like everything is under control now. But, just to add a different idea in. . .

When I leave, no matter where I'm going or how long I'll be, Willow gets told "gotta go to work, be back in a little while".

I usually give her a treat to keep her busy so she doesn't try following me out the door because at one time she used to come to work with me.

She quickly figured out what this phrase meant and I think any dog could do the same.
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Post by chowfrnd88 »

I do the same thing. When we leave and Special can't come, if he's excited I say "you stay" and he automatically knows what's up. He gets a small treat and I say "I'll be back." Then he knows not to try to come, he just sits calmly while I leave.
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Post by Auddymay »

I haven't worked since getting Lily. She has never had to stay a day alone, only a few hours. She goes on almost all errands with me, and Pip too. Every so often, I go by myself. I get some looks of betrayal, but no destruction as of yet.
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