Need help or advice with socialization
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Need help or advice with socialization
I am new to this site but reading other post I see people tend to get and give great advice. I hope you can help me. I have 2 beautiful chows Rusty who will be 5 tomorrow and Roxie who is 2. Rusty is a true ladies man. He loves children, adults, cats anyone who is willing to rub him. But, than there’s Roxie. She wont allow anyone except me and her daddy around her. We take her everywhere with us and have since we got her @ 8 weeks old. But she just doesn’t like people. When we are out side she pulls away and runs in between are legs. She wont allow anyone to come within 5 feet of her. When we have guest over she runs to corner in the house where she can see every move are guest make and just growls the entire time.
My question is if there is anything that I can do to help break her of this. Have I waited to long?
My question is if there is anything that I can do to help break her of this. Have I waited to long?
Last edited by Runit on Fri Apr 14, 2006 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Judy Fox
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- Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 9:49 am
- Location: Cheshire, On The Island.(But always wishing she was back home in Wales)
I can see your problem and I do not know the answer to it.
However, can I suggest that you get a thorough health check at the vets.
That would, hopefully show up any problem healthwise or rule out any problem.
Then, can you think back to the day you brought her home. What happened? Did anything happen? What were the circumstances of her coming to you? Chows have very long memories.
When did the problem start? I suggest you just sit down and think back every day and try to remember if anything happened to her along the way.
All that done, it could be that you have a chow with extreme chow nature and it is not going to improve - so - you are going to have to learn to live with it.
There is a Chow called Pekoe on the site who has no time for anybody else only her family!
She has attitude and her Dad can tell some hilarious tales of her escapades and I am sure he will respond to this post. He deals with it by always being on Pekoe's side - she is right - and if she is not happy with something, that is fine by Jeff! (I think that just about puts it in a nutshell, doesn't it Jeff? 
)
Regarding visitors, if health checks and so on are good, maybe you should consider just letting her stay somewhere safe, say your bedroom or wherever you have where she can be undisturbed. Also, I take it that you reassure her when she is growling - tell her "No! It is alright, Roxie!" Are you nervous when visitors are in because if you are nervous, that nervousness could transmit to her and so compound the issue - therefore, it might be better if she is somewhere safe away from visitors and then you will both be calmer. I don't know - maybe I am wrong - others more experienced than me. This is just a suggestion.
Not a great deal of help I know - my Milly is not the most sociable of chow chows - not as extreme as your girl but we never force her to be sociable. She does not growl or snap or anything, but she sniffs visitors out then clears off. Her sister Mabel is a little more sociable but she clears off too and we let them.
Your boy sounds like a lovely chow with more friendliness that usual so count your blessings on that score and just start a process of elimination with your girl. Just take one thing at a time and check right through mentally, every day since you got her, starting with a health check.
Good luck and I am sure others on the site will be more helpful.
However, can I suggest that you get a thorough health check at the vets.
That would, hopefully show up any problem healthwise or rule out any problem.
Then, can you think back to the day you brought her home. What happened? Did anything happen? What were the circumstances of her coming to you? Chows have very long memories.
When did the problem start? I suggest you just sit down and think back every day and try to remember if anything happened to her along the way.
All that done, it could be that you have a chow with extreme chow nature and it is not going to improve - so - you are going to have to learn to live with it.
There is a Chow called Pekoe on the site who has no time for anybody else only her family!
She has attitude and her Dad can tell some hilarious tales of her escapades and I am sure he will respond to this post. He deals with it by always being on Pekoe's side - she is right - and if she is not happy with something, that is fine by Jeff! (I think that just about puts it in a nutshell, doesn't it Jeff? )Regarding visitors, if health checks and so on are good, maybe you should consider just letting her stay somewhere safe, say your bedroom or wherever you have where she can be undisturbed. Also, I take it that you reassure her when she is growling - tell her "No! It is alright, Roxie!" Are you nervous when visitors are in because if you are nervous, that nervousness could transmit to her and so compound the issue - therefore, it might be better if she is somewhere safe away from visitors and then you will both be calmer.
I don't know - maybe I am wrong - others more experienced than me. This is just a suggestion.Not a great deal of help I know - my Milly is not the most sociable of chow chows - not as extreme as your girl but we never force her to be sociable. She does not growl or snap or anything, but she sniffs visitors out then clears off. Her sister Mabel is a little more sociable but she clears off too and we let them.
Your boy sounds like a lovely chow with more friendliness that usual so count your blessings on that score and just start a process of elimination with your girl. Just take one thing at a time and check right through mentally, every day since you got her, starting with a health check.
Good luck and I am sure others on the site will be more helpful.
Last edited by Judy Fox on Fri Apr 14, 2006 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
(Thank you Sweetpea for my new banner.)
I can't give you any advice on what to do but my 10 yr old female Chow, Pekoe has been doing that for the 8 yrs we have had her and no Chow could be in more social situations then Pekoe, Dog parks, shopping malls, city streets, theme parks, ski resorts, what ever it is she's been there, still No one but the immediate family (4 people) can come near her or show any sign of coming toward her, everyone else stay away. I will say she has mellowed out some in her old age she is no where near as bad as she use to be. If your Chow is like mine then i should add have fun at the Vets and Groomers.
This isn't helping you with the problem i just wanted you to know you don't have the only Chow that acts like that, actually there are a few of them on this site.
Judy,
That's funny, you where posting at the same time i was, i just saw your post when mine went through. Its true what Judy says, But the way i always look at Pekoe, I don't like Doctors or barbers eather and i sure wouldn't want People trying to pet me all the time or taking my food away when i'm eating so why should Pekoe tolorate it.
This isn't helping you with the problem i just wanted you to know you don't have the only Chow that acts like that, actually there are a few of them on this site.
Judy,
That's funny, you where posting at the same time i was, i just saw your post when mine went through. Its true what Judy says, But the way i always look at Pekoe, I don't like Doctors or barbers eather and i sure wouldn't want People trying to pet me all the time or taking my food away when i'm eating so why should Pekoe tolorate it.
Last edited by Jeff&Peks on Fri Apr 14, 2006 2:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I have a very shy 11 month old girl. It takes her a good 4 or 5 times of being around somebody before she realizes they are "ok". One thing I've just started doing is having strangers completely ignore her when they come in the house. I tell them not to look at her or try to go near her, just ignore her. Eventually she gets curious and comes up to sniff at them. Then I have them offer her a treat, which, she usually takes then immediately backs away. Our dog trainer told me to try this and thinks that eventually she will come to like strangers since they give her yummy treats. We'll see.....
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Judy Fox
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Yes Jeff,
I saw your post - when I read the post about Rusty and Roxie, I immediately thought of Pekoe!
I told you Jeff would respond didn't I?
The picture of your chow chows is beautiful - take a deep breath and don't let Roxie's attitude spoil your enjoyment of them.
"Attitude" is a chow chow trait!!
I saw your post - when I read the post about Rusty and Roxie, I immediately thought of Pekoe!
I told you Jeff would respond didn't I?
The picture of your chow chows is beautiful - take a deep breath and don't let Roxie's attitude spoil your enjoyment of them.
"Attitude" is a chow chow trait!!
(Thank you Sweetpea for my new banner.)
I guess since I'm one of the other ones on the site whos chow does not like people. I will post too. My Koda who will be 7 months old tomorrow is the same way with people. If they come near him he goes the other way as fast as he can. He does not tolerate strangers well at all. The night my kids brought him to me at 8 weeks of age, he hid under one of my end tables in the corner so no one could get to him... or so he thought. He was terribly fightened. And altho he is getting better with allowing our neighbors a quick pet, he still is not comfortable with them and only lets our immediate family love on him and play with him. Koda too, has been socialized well, but for the most part, he is definitly afraid of strangers. I don't have a clue why he is like that... except I do tend to lean towards the fact that his breeder must not have treated him right (abuse). There is a huge difference in a chow being "aloof" and a chow being afraid, which is obviously what is wrong with Koda. He is especially fearful of men. I have done my best to socialize him by taking him places with me, like other people's homes, Petsmart, walks in the park, etc., but he is still fearful. I have come to accept the fact that Koda is going to be Koda and I just have to make people respect me, my house and my chow enough to give him his space and leave him alone. If people don't like it, they can leave. Koda at this point, doesn't get too terribly upset if a stranger enters our home, but then again, he is still a baby. We just continue to keep an eye on him. But the bottom line is, Koda belongs to me, this is his home, and altho I will not allow him to growl and bite someone in the future, humans do needs to respect the fact that he is a chow, not a firendly dog. I may sound mean, but that's the way it is here at our house. LOL
He was terribly fightened. And altho he is getting better with allowing our neighbors a quick pet, he still is not comfortable with them and only lets our immediate family love on him and play with him. Koda too, has been socialized well, but for the most part, he is definitly afraid of strangers. I don't have a clue why he is like that... except I do tend to lean towards the fact that his breeder must not have treated him right (abuse). There is a huge difference in a chow being "aloof" and a chow being afraid, which is obviously what is wrong with Koda. He is especially fearful of men. I have done my best to socialize him by taking him places with me, like other people's homes, Petsmart, walks in the park, etc., but he is still fearful. I have come to accept the fact that Koda is going to be Koda and I just have to make people respect me, my house and my chow enough to give him his space and leave him alone. If people don't like it, they can leave. Koda at this point, doesn't get too terribly upset if a stranger enters our home, but then again, he is still a baby. We just continue to keep an eye on him. But the bottom line is, Koda belongs to me, this is his home, and altho I will not allow him to growl and bite someone in the future, humans do needs to respect the fact that he is a chow, not a firendly dog. I may sound mean, but that's the way it is here at our house. LOLNancy and Tai
I don't think its a matter of being afraid or shy of People I think Chows just don't want to be bothered. The fear you are seeing is them being afraid of your reaction to what they really want to do but are trying not to just to please you, It may look like fear to you because they hide or do what ever it takes to get away from someone approching them but the Chows smart enough to know if it attacks or bites its in trouble so the only thing they can do is either hide or growl. They are guard dogs, the only thing that matters to them is their home and family. When ever you read anything about a Chow the first thing its says is a very loyal guard dog.
What tekendall says is true though I have been doing that forever just never thought about it, When someone comes to our house family or stranger I always say ignore her don't even look at her, she will come to you when she wants, if you don't bother her she won't bother you. Pekoe does like having alot of people around she just dosn't want them touching her without her ok. She always has to be in the middle of everything but sits with her butt to them so people will think she dosn't care but will be listening to every word, She can't stand it if she's not included
What tekendall says is true though I have been doing that forever just never thought about it, When someone comes to our house family or stranger I always say ignore her don't even look at her, she will come to you when she wants, if you don't bother her she won't bother you. Pekoe does like having alot of people around she just dosn't want them touching her without her ok. She always has to be in the middle of everything but sits with her butt to them so people will think she dosn't care but will be listening to every word, She can't stand it if she's not included
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Odessa's mum
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- Location: Mississauga, Ontario
First I just want to say the picture of Rusty and Roxie is just too beautiful.
When we brought Odessa home (at age 2) she did not want anyone near her and it took us close to three months before we could hug her but that was because she was treated badly by the previous owner. She would also be very suspicious of any young (18-24) males that either came over or we passed on our walks and growl at them.
But now she is much better, does not socialize too much with everyone, but then our trainer told us that we don't like everyone we meet so why should Odessa
Like some of the other posts, we do tell guests to ignore her and walk in, however she knows exactly who is nervous of her and there is one friend who walks against the wall and then plonks down on the closest seat and my naughty Odessa just sits in front of her and stares at her till she leaves
-- does not growl or do anything, actually gives her a lick or two on the foot sometimes but that just scares my friend all the more and it is too funny to watch. It's like Odessa is trying to make her feel comfortable.
Some friends though, despite the number of visits they have made, are still in her bad books and she just scowls at them and pushes then off if they come too close or try to pet her, inspite of the treat trick
When on walks, while going she will refuse to let anyone touch her and gets mad if I stop to talk to anyone. On the way back though, she is a little more tolerable of people but I always sit with her if any of the kids want to pet her as she does not like them making a lot of noise or running towards her.
Strangers are not welcome and in fact Odessa is so possessive of me that one time, around 6 months after we got her and my hubby was away on business, she refused to let me even open the door for my brother-in-law as it was the first time she was seeing him and so did not know him. She caught my hand in her mouth and literally pulled me inside -- did no hurt me at all but in the end I had to leave her by the storm door, close the front door, go out the back door and talk to my brother-in-law who decided not to come in after all He now has to literally step over her when leaving as she totally ignores him, seems to realise he is not really a dog person.
So on the whole I just think you have a normal chow in Roxie and she may change a bit as time passes but don't count on it.
Even with all this, I adore my girl and would never settle for any other breed.
Mildred
When we brought Odessa home (at age 2) she did not want anyone near her and it took us close to three months before we could hug her but that was because she was treated badly by the previous owner. She would also be very suspicious of any young (18-24) males that either came over or we passed on our walks and growl at them.
But now she is much better, does not socialize too much with everyone, but then our trainer told us that we don't like everyone we meet so why should Odessa
Like some of the other posts, we do tell guests to ignore her and walk in, however she knows exactly who is nervous of her and there is one friend who walks against the wall and then plonks down on the closest seat and my naughty Odessa just sits in front of her and stares at her till she leaves
-- does not growl or do anything, actually gives her a lick or two on the foot sometimes but that just scares my friend all the more and it is too funny to watch. It's like Odessa is trying to make her feel comfortable.Some friends though, despite the number of visits they have made, are still in her bad books and she just scowls at them and pushes then off if they come too close or try to pet her, inspite of the treat trick
When on walks, while going she will refuse to let anyone touch her and gets mad if I stop to talk to anyone. On the way back though, she is a little more tolerable of people but I always sit with her if any of the kids want to pet her as she does not like them making a lot of noise or running towards her.
Strangers are not welcome and in fact Odessa is so possessive of me that one time, around 6 months after we got her and my hubby was away on business, she refused to let me even open the door for my brother-in-law as it was the first time she was seeing him and so did not know him. She caught my hand in her mouth and literally pulled me inside
-- did no hurt me at all but in the end I had to leave her by the storm door, close the front door, go out the back door and talk to my brother-in-law who decided not to come in after all He now has to literally step over her when leaving as she totally ignores him, seems to realise he is not really a dog person.So on the whole I just think you have a normal chow in Roxie and she may change a bit as time passes but don't count on it.
Even with all this, I adore my girl and would never settle for any other breed.
Mildred
Thanks a lot everyone, it has taken a load off me. We did such a great job with Rusty. Teh fact that he is so friendly I was thinking I really messed up with Roxie. But, I didn’t do anything different. I have read several books and they all said chows are aloof but never seen it first hand until now. Thinking back to the breeder we got Roxie from lived on a farm and she just kept all her dogs in kennels outside with no real contact to people. We got her so young I didn’t think that would still affect her. But thanks again.
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TigerTiger
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- Location: Toronto, Canada
Welcome to cross over to the ''dark side" 
and really beautiful CHOWs that you have!!!!! 
CHOWs are CHOWs. They have nothing like any other breed of dog. Don't get me wrong, there's lots of "people lovers" chow from this site, but there's also quite a few of us that are owned by a typical CHOW.
Tiger is getting better in the past year and a half -- because he is getting into the senior years -- I think. But till today, my hubby still remembers the first time he met Tiger, who was 2 at that time, the treatment he got -- "Don't even think of touch me! Get your hands of me!!!!" -- we always have a good laugth about it.
I always give people the same advise as Jeff -- He will come to you if he wants. And I believe he decides who he can trust right away and who he needs to take time to investigate. I remember the first time my brother-in-law came and visited, he was sitting in the living and Tiger, normally don't get close to any strainger, just went up to him and gave him his paw and ask for a pet!!!!
So I am pretty much with Jeff and Mildred, just let your chows be the way they want to be, no need to try to change them as we choose this breed because we love the way they are.
and really beautiful CHOWs that you have!!!!! CHOWs are CHOWs. They have nothing like any other breed of dog. Don't get me wrong, there's lots of "people lovers" chow from this site, but there's also quite a few of us that are owned by a typical CHOW.
Tiger is getting better in the past year and a half -- because he is getting into the senior years -- I think. But till today, my hubby still remembers the first time he met Tiger, who was 2 at that time, the treatment he got -- "Don't even think of touch me! Get your hands of me!!!!" -- we always have a good laugth about it.
I always give people the same advise as Jeff -- He will come to you if he wants. And I believe he decides who he can trust right away and who he needs to take time to investigate. I remember the first time my brother-in-law came and visited, he was sitting in the living and Tiger, normally don't get close to any strainger, just went up to him and gave him his paw and ask for a pet!!!!
So I am pretty much with Jeff and Mildred, just let your chows be the way they want to be, no need to try to change them as we choose this breed because we love the way they are.
Purple kisses from Tiger xxxxxx
Karen, Pablo & Tiger
Karen, Pablo & Tiger
Re: "My question is if there is anything that I can do to help break her of this."
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You could work at desensitizing her to such experiences, and lowering her stress hormones. While stress hormones are elevated in a 'fight or flight' response, they *cancel* the 'calming' brain chemistry responsible for a sense of well-being.
You would work at creating positive associations in her mind concerning guests, instead of her experiencing them only as intruding enemies and high stress events. The more she is stressed, the harder it becomes to build calming brain chemistry, and the easier it then becomes to trigger stress hormones again.
There is nutritional support to help lower stress hormones as well, and there are several fairly recent threads on the topic too. She should be able to take cues from you, that all is well, that you are in charge of the situation.
Wishing Rusty a Happy Birthday, and Welcome to the forums!
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You could work at desensitizing her to such experiences, and lowering her stress hormones. While stress hormones are elevated in a 'fight or flight' response, they *cancel* the 'calming' brain chemistry responsible for a sense of well-being.
You would work at creating positive associations in her mind concerning guests, instead of her experiencing them only as intruding enemies and high stress events. The more she is stressed, the harder it becomes to build calming brain chemistry, and the easier it then becomes to trigger stress hormones again.
There is nutritional support to help lower stress hormones as well, and there are several fairly recent threads on the topic too. She should be able to take cues from you, that all is well, that you are in charge of the situation.
Wishing Rusty a Happy Birthday, and Welcome to the forums!
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Rogansmommy
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I have one of the chows who 'tolerates' people. It took constant, diligent effort to get him to that place. You could try treats -- give the visitors treats and then allow your girl to go to them at her own pace. However, that takes ALOT of time and does not always work. Rogue is awesome with people, but there are still some that he does not like. We can't find a pattern to it either.
As Tiger said, your Chow is a unique being. I've always said that they were bred to be agoraphobic and untrusting of strangers -- one of their define roles in China was to be personal guard dogs of the royal family -- so you can't fight nature.
You sound like a responsible Chow owner with a great understanding of your babies -- I vote to just roll with it!
As Tiger said, your Chow is a unique being. I've always said that they were bred to be agoraphobic and untrusting of strangers -- one of their define roles in China was to be personal guard dogs of the royal family -- so you can't fight nature.
You sound like a responsible Chow owner with a great understanding of your babies -- I vote to just roll with it!
Michele
^Rogan^ at the Bridge on 5/16/09 -- always in my heart
^Rogan^ at the Bridge on 5/16/09 -- always in my heart
Shiloh is a mix and had what I think might have been a "rocky" start in life - just guessing but her behavior makes me think so. She has never allowed anyone get near her - actually it took us months to get near her . Only once did someone else touch her. We stopped to talk to the neighbors and she sat as far away from them as her leash would allow. We were there a while and she got bored so got up and started sniffing. She eventually got close enough to the neighbor to sniff her leg. The neighbor was able to scratch her head for about 5 seconds before she jerked away.
Mr. N is very curious about people but not interested in being touched either. Only a few people have been allowed to pet him - after being instructed by us on how to approach him.
We are not terribly social ourselves so socializing our two has not happened. What matters to us is that they are happy in our lifestyle. It works for us. It does pose a challenge with groomers and vets but we get through it.
Guess I'm not adding much to help you except to say that we personnally don't find it necessary to have our Chows socialize and accept anyone that might visit us - which are few and far between so that works
Karen, Shiloh, and Mr. N
. Only once did someone else touch her. We stopped to talk to the neighbors and she sat as far away from them as her leash would allow. We were there a while and she got bored so got up and started sniffing. She eventually got close enough to the neighbor to sniff her leg. The neighbor was able to scratch her head for about 5 seconds before she jerked away.Mr. N is very curious about people but not interested in being touched either. Only a few people have been allowed to pet him - after being instructed by us on how to approach him.
We are not terribly social ourselves so socializing our two has not happened. What matters to us is that they are happy in our lifestyle. It works for us. It does pose a challenge with groomers and vets but we get through it.
Guess I'm not adding much to help you except to say that we personnally don't find it necessary to have our Chows socialize and accept anyone that might visit us - which are few and far between so that works
Karen, Shiloh, and Mr. N
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IliamnasQuest
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- Location: Alaska
Hello Runit, and welcome to the forum.
It's always kind of hard to assess behavior from a post in here (without seeing the dog) but I can give you my thoughts on this from my experience in chows over the past 14 years.
Roxie sounds scared to me. To go between your legs when someone approaches, and to hide in a corner and growl while someone is in your house is not normal dog behavior (chow or not). I think it's possible in her mind she just doesn't have any true idea of how to deal with strangers, and so she acts "growly" because of it. And acting growly has probably worked - it keeps people away from her and so in a way her behavior is constantly reinforced. A stranger comes near, she gets uncomfortable, she growls, stranger backs off or you remove her from the situation. It's a winning deal for her. But unfortunately every time this happens, it only makes the situation worse.
At the age of two, most of her personality is pretty established. But there are some things you can do to stop reinforcing her behavior and to encourage her to think a bit differently. One is desensitization as kiwani mentioned. You first need to find her "comfort zone" - meaning you need to find how far away she needs to be from a stranger to not react at all. If the stranger is 30 feet away and she doesn't react, this is where you start. Every dog has a different comfort zone.
So you start at the edge of her comfort zone, and you treat and praise and reward her for being calm and not showing fearful behavior. Then you move just a tad bit closer (maybe a foot, maybe less if she's reactive at a foot closer) and you praise and treat again. You do this in small increments as you get closer, and do it in short training sessions but frequently. You don't push it to the point where she starts to react - if she reacts, then you know you've gone a bit too far. What you want is to be able to reinforce her for getting closer without giving her any reason to act fearful.
As you do this, over a period of weeks or months, her comfort zone should get closer to the stranger. Where you may have started at 30' away, after a dozen or so sessions you might be able to start the next session at 25' away.
It's a slow procedure, and when you get her used to one situation you start with another - but you always start within her comfort zone so you have something to reinforce.
Within your own home is yet another situation to work on. There are a few things you can do to help her out. It's not good for her to sit in a corner and growl while you have guests there. She shouldn't think this is acceptable behavior and she obviously is not happy while she's like that. So you can either choose to remove her from the situation altogether (put her in another room or outside) or teach her that strangers coming in is a good thing.
You can start just by having a friend come to the door, step in, drop some really good treats (meat or cheese or something very special) and then leave. Do this over and over throughout a period of days. If she's not interested in the treats, then you may have to cut back on her food a bit and let her get a little hungry. Hunger is a good motivator.
When she starts acting calmer about people coming right inside the door (and hopefully is starting to look forward to it) then you can have them come in a bit farther, drop the treats, and leave. You gradually build on this until they are coming completely into the room and dropping the treats. And then you get to the point where the people can actually sit down, drop or toss treats. They shouldn't look at her or meet her gaze or approach her in any way - that's up to her. But with constant association with really good treats, she may start to think that strangers coming in is not such a bad thing and will at least tolerate them better.
The chow has an independent and "aloof" nature but that doesn't mean that they should ever be fearful or aggressive. It's perfectly acceptable for them not to want to approach a stranger and to turn their backs and go lay down somewhere else, but growling is a step past typical or acceptable chow behavior. My two older chows will greet someone and then go off and do their own thing, which is pretty normal. My youngest chow is still in the "I love everyone!" stage (she gave kisses today to the guy putting bags of dog food in the van). But the chow really should have a solid temperament and respectable breeders are working towards this. It sounds like the breeder you got Roxie from wasn't really concerned with good breeding or socialization, which is sad. Rusty is a good example for Roxie and maybe she will start to pick up on it more, especially if you can work on desensitizing her to help her get past her fears.
I've been to chow nationals twice so far and there are hundreds of chows there. I've petted dozens, wandered around through all the chows and never even been growled at. Some of the chows weren't interested in being petted, but they all were calm and accepting. This is the temperament that good breeders are looking for.
Melanie and the gang in Alaska
It's always kind of hard to assess behavior from a post in here (without seeing the dog) but I can give you my thoughts on this from my experience in chows over the past 14 years.
Roxie sounds scared to me. To go between your legs when someone approaches, and to hide in a corner and growl while someone is in your house is not normal dog behavior (chow or not). I think it's possible in her mind she just doesn't have any true idea of how to deal with strangers, and so she acts "growly" because of it. And acting growly has probably worked - it keeps people away from her and so in a way her behavior is constantly reinforced. A stranger comes near, she gets uncomfortable, she growls, stranger backs off or you remove her from the situation. It's a winning deal for her. But unfortunately every time this happens, it only makes the situation worse.
At the age of two, most of her personality is pretty established. But there are some things you can do to stop reinforcing her behavior and to encourage her to think a bit differently. One is desensitization as kiwani mentioned. You first need to find her "comfort zone" - meaning you need to find how far away she needs to be from a stranger to not react at all. If the stranger is 30 feet away and she doesn't react, this is where you start. Every dog has a different comfort zone.
So you start at the edge of her comfort zone, and you treat and praise and reward her for being calm and not showing fearful behavior. Then you move just a tad bit closer (maybe a foot, maybe less if she's reactive at a foot closer) and you praise and treat again. You do this in small increments as you get closer, and do it in short training sessions but frequently. You don't push it to the point where she starts to react - if she reacts, then you know you've gone a bit too far. What you want is to be able to reinforce her for getting closer without giving her any reason to act fearful.
As you do this, over a period of weeks or months, her comfort zone should get closer to the stranger. Where you may have started at 30' away, after a dozen or so sessions you might be able to start the next session at 25' away.
It's a slow procedure, and when you get her used to one situation you start with another - but you always start within her comfort zone so you have something to reinforce.
Within your own home is yet another situation to work on. There are a few things you can do to help her out. It's not good for her to sit in a corner and growl while you have guests there. She shouldn't think this is acceptable behavior and she obviously is not happy while she's like that. So you can either choose to remove her from the situation altogether (put her in another room or outside) or teach her that strangers coming in is a good thing.
You can start just by having a friend come to the door, step in, drop some really good treats (meat or cheese or something very special) and then leave. Do this over and over throughout a period of days. If she's not interested in the treats, then you may have to cut back on her food a bit and let her get a little hungry. Hunger is a good motivator.
When she starts acting calmer about people coming right inside the door (and hopefully is starting to look forward to it) then you can have them come in a bit farther, drop the treats, and leave. You gradually build on this until they are coming completely into the room and dropping the treats. And then you get to the point where the people can actually sit down, drop or toss treats. They shouldn't look at her or meet her gaze or approach her in any way - that's up to her. But with constant association with really good treats, she may start to think that strangers coming in is not such a bad thing and will at least tolerate them better.
The chow has an independent and "aloof" nature but that doesn't mean that they should ever be fearful or aggressive. It's perfectly acceptable for them not to want to approach a stranger and to turn their backs and go lay down somewhere else, but growling is a step past typical or acceptable chow behavior. My two older chows will greet someone and then go off and do their own thing, which is pretty normal. My youngest chow is still in the "I love everyone!" stage (she gave kisses today to the guy putting bags of dog food in the van). But the chow really should have a solid temperament and respectable breeders are working towards this. It sounds like the breeder you got Roxie from wasn't really concerned with good breeding or socialization, which is sad. Rusty is a good example for Roxie and maybe she will start to pick up on it more, especially if you can work on desensitizing her to help her get past her fears.
I've been to chow nationals twice so far and there are hundreds of chows there. I've petted dozens, wandered around through all the chows and never even been growled at. Some of the chows weren't interested in being petted, but they all were calm and accepting. This is the temperament that good breeders are looking for.
Melanie and the gang in Alaska
Like I said, Koda does not hide when strangers enter any longer and he never has growled. He did used to hide, but has come out of that. I also refuse to put him up. He has to get used to people or at the very least be tolerable of the situation. I do tell everyone... don't try to pet him. Let him come to you if he wants to. If he smells someone without running, I look at that as a good sign. He does stay close, because like Pekoe, he has to see what's going on. LOL But he just does not want people messing with him. If someone is priviledged enough to be allowed to pet him, it is always on his terms. But usually he just sits or lays close enough where he can make everyone think he is ignoring them, but listening and watching the entire time. We were over at my step daughter's tonight and Koda was there with me off leash. Some friends of hers came over that Koda didn't know. Koda made it quite clear that he was not interested in them. But after awhile he did go up to the guy and licked his back. LOL No petting mind you, but a quick lick, and for Koda that is an improvement. Like someone suggested, we just roll with it. I think as Koda gets older he does improve and gets more sure of himself. I could care less if he allows strangers to pet him. He's a chow. As mean as it sounds, I kind of get a kick out of the fact that some people are scared to death of him. If only they knew.
We were over at my step daughter's tonight and Koda was there with me off leash. Some friends of hers came over that Koda didn't know. Koda made it quite clear that he was not interested in them. But after awhile he did go up to the guy and licked his back. LOL No petting mind you, but a quick lick, and for Koda that is an improvement. Like someone suggested, we just roll with it. I think as Koda gets older he does improve and gets more sure of himself. I could care less if he allows strangers to pet him. He's a chow. As mean as it sounds, I kind of get a kick out of the fact that some people are scared to death of him. If only they knew.
Last edited by ngraham on Fri Apr 14, 2006 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Nancy and Tai
Hello, Melanie! How is the Kenai Peninsula? Do you still have snow? We still have the big piles, but the rest is pretty much gone.
I have heard the method you described before (Maybe from you!) but I have a question. You said
Leo does bark at my mom, for whatever reason. She has never done anything too him, just tried to pet him. He will accept treats from her, but when she is at my home, he will bark at her whenever he notices her (he does not focus all of his attention on her)
Tracy
I have heard the method you described before (Maybe from you!) but I have a question. You said
How does the dog know what it is being praised for? I picture Leo and I sitting in a park setting (I don't have this problem with Leo, just using this as a scenario) People are walking by, but far enough away that he isn't reacting. I say "good boy, Leo", pat his head, give him his favorite treats. I then come back the next day and get a tiny bit closer and do the same thing. Why doesn't he just think I have lost my mind and think it is ok because I am giving him treats? I hope you don't think I am being snotty, it is an honest question, I promise!!So you start at the edge of her comfort zone, and you treat and praise and reward her for being calm and not showing fearful behavior
Leo does bark at my mom, for whatever reason. She has never done anything too him, just tried to pet him. He will accept treats from her, but when she is at my home, he will bark at her whenever he notices her (he does not focus all of his attention on her)
Tracy
As a puppy my Chewie was a lover. Loved everyone, kids, adults anyone...
Chewie is now 1 1/2 and we are now starting to see his real personality. I was suprised that he was so "people loving" as I had done my research, met his family and knew that that was not typical for a chow. Well.... I guess I just had to wait!
I have yet to figure out how or why he likes certain people and not others. There are two sisters who live down the street. One is quiet and sweet, one is loud and crazy. he will let the loud one walk right up to him and pet him, but shys away from the quiet one. I had a difficult time when he started acting like a "typical" chow - I had gotten used to the lover-boy! But I realize that he knows something that we don't. Maybe that little girl is fearful, who knows? But I am learning to trust his insticts.
I find it acceptable behaivor in my chows for them to ignore people, run away if startled (cayenne, my 5 yr old female, gets spooked easily,) snuff a little bit, bark when someone comes to the door or the yard etc. I consider growling, snapping, & hiding behind me or my husband unacceptable. I don't mind if they are aloof, uninterested, or startled but I, like Melanie, don't like the fearful part. If he doesn't seem to like a person (Cayenne seems to be fine with everyone - just shy at first) then I try to give them a treat to give to him, but don't have them look at him. sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. If there is ever growling (which has only happened 3 times) he gets a loud, deep voiced "NO!"
Your chows are beautiful, and not unlike many chows at this site. I hope you can find a way to work with making Roxie more comfortable!
Chewie is now 1 1/2 and we are now starting to see his real personality. I was suprised that he was so "people loving" as I had done my research, met his family and knew that that was not typical for a chow. Well.... I guess I just had to wait!
I have yet to figure out how or why he likes certain people and not others. There are two sisters who live down the street. One is quiet and sweet, one is loud and crazy. he will let the loud one walk right up to him and pet him, but shys away from the quiet one. I had a difficult time when he started acting like a "typical" chow - I had gotten used to the lover-boy! But I realize that he knows something that we don't. Maybe that little girl is fearful, who knows? But I am learning to trust his insticts.
I find it acceptable behaivor in my chows for them to ignore people, run away if startled (cayenne, my 5 yr old female, gets spooked easily,) snuff a little bit, bark when someone comes to the door or the yard etc. I consider growling, snapping, & hiding behind me or my husband unacceptable. I don't mind if they are aloof, uninterested, or startled but I, like Melanie, don't like the fearful part. If he doesn't seem to like a person (Cayenne seems to be fine with everyone - just shy at first) then I try to give them a treat to give to him, but don't have them look at him. sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. If there is ever growling (which has only happened 3 times) he gets a loud, deep voiced "NO!"
Your chows are beautiful, and not unlike many chows at this site. I hope you can find a way to work with making Roxie more comfortable!
Mandy, Chewie, & Cayenne
I don't know about this bad breeding and lack of social skills and training or Roxie being scared, apparently just about every Chow on this site doesn't like to be approached by strangers. Half of them hate the vet and the other half will kill a groomer if you can find a groomer that will touch a Chow. I really don't think all these Chows are acting this way because of bad breeding, lack of training or not being feed the proper nutritional supplements. Must be just another Chow thing, as we always say.
Growling, yes, we hear it often, and the growl/bark, and the chuffing and huffing...each sound Lily makes has a meaning. She can be quite vicious sounding to the layperson, it's all show and no true aggression. She is selective too, I figured she would be aloof while being kenneled after surgury, and she ended up being the hospital darling. The same dog will growl at small children on the sidewalk as we drive by in our car, yet she actually likes (certain) children. It sounds kinda like Moe from the 3 Stooges saying, "why I oughta..." She acts like a little lady at the groomer's while getting a nail trim...the groomer is very comfortable handling Lily, and I think she can sense it. She has been well socialized, but at about 5 months she decided she would act the true chow nature. She doesn't show fear, it's more like indignation that someone moved into her line of vision. It's kinda humorous when she chuffs at some poor galute over at the Family Dollar dumpster half a block away just emptying the rubbish. We're like, "come on Lily, the poor guys gotta work..."
For Tracey- if Leo was the kinda Chow who took offense to the mear presence of people, a person walking by would constitute a major event for the chow. Not growling would not be his normal reaction, so he would understand being praised for acting differently...I hope that makes sense to the reader...lol...clarity may be slightly obscured.
For Tracey- if Leo was the kinda Chow who took offense to the mear presence of people, a person walking by would constitute a major event for the chow. Not growling would not be his normal reaction, so he would understand being praised for acting differently...I hope that makes sense to the reader...lol...clarity may be slightly obscured.
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IliamnasQuest
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Hey Tracy!
The snow's melting .. not fast enough .. *L* I had Khana and Trick down at the lodge today, they had a blast racing around through what's left of the snow there.
You asked a very valid question. I didn't explain things well enough and I realized that after I read your question. When you are finding the dog's comfort zone, the dog needs to be aware of the stranger but not be reactive to it. By this I mean that your dog can look and see that there's a stranger there, but the person is far enough away to cause little response in the dog. They may stiffen up some, may focus and look, but there isn't any huge reaction. And when the dog relaxes and looks at you, it's a perfect time to reinforce that behavior of being relaxed with a stranger at a distance.
A huge part of working with dogs is really observing the body language and seeing the precursors to certain behaviors. You learn what little signals your dog sends out before they get really reactive. Typically a dog will stiffen, stare, head may come up, tail may get stiff and upright (hard to see in a chow! *L*), edges of lips may tighten, muscles around the eyes may tighten - and as the reaction escalates, you get more obvious signals like lifting lips, leaning forward, hackles up, growling, and finally lunging and biting. There's a logical progression in every dog through these signals, and as we observe our dogs we start to learn the signals that our dogs give us.
It would a very valuable exercise for people to sit on a park bench with their dog on a leash and just watch the dog's signals as other people go by. If you have a reactive dog, you'd want to do this at a distance and it's best done with just you and one dog so you can really focus on that dog. You'll see what various signals are given. The dog's face is a great place for signals - watch the lips, the positioning of the head (high or low, muzzle up or down) and the positioning of the lips too. Watch the eyes and how they change when someone comes a little closer. Look at the entire body and see the posture - does it show tension, anticipation, fear? It's really fascinating to observe your dog fully without the distractions of the home around you.
So .. back to your question. With the dog aware that there's someone at a distance, you have a perfect opportunity to see your dog's relaxed signals (or at least semi-relaxed, because some dogs feel they have to be alert no matter how far away a person is). Then you reinforce for that relaxed state. When you move a bit closer, and your dog gets a bit more tense (but not overly reactive) you wait quietly until your dog shows signs of relaxing OR turns to you and takes their focus away from the person (which shows that they are not really uncomfortable with the stranger). Then you can praise and reward.
It's a series of small steps, and it takes awhile. But I've had dogs come to me for private consultations who have been extremely reactive (mostly to other dogs) and within a few sessions would walk calmly past another dog. It takes true dedication on the part of the owner but it can be done with many dogs.
I hope that answered your question!
Enjoy the sun this weekend .. temps in the 40's! WOOHOO!!
Melanie and the gang in Alaska
The snow's melting .. not fast enough .. *L* I had Khana and Trick down at the lodge today, they had a blast racing around through what's left of the snow there.
You asked a very valid question. I didn't explain things well enough and I realized that after I read your question. When you are finding the dog's comfort zone, the dog needs to be aware of the stranger but not be reactive to it. By this I mean that your dog can look and see that there's a stranger there, but the person is far enough away to cause little response in the dog. They may stiffen up some, may focus and look, but there isn't any huge reaction. And when the dog relaxes and looks at you, it's a perfect time to reinforce that behavior of being relaxed with a stranger at a distance.
A huge part of working with dogs is really observing the body language and seeing the precursors to certain behaviors. You learn what little signals your dog sends out before they get really reactive. Typically a dog will stiffen, stare, head may come up, tail may get stiff and upright (hard to see in a chow! *L*), edges of lips may tighten, muscles around the eyes may tighten - and as the reaction escalates, you get more obvious signals like lifting lips, leaning forward, hackles up, growling, and finally lunging and biting. There's a logical progression in every dog through these signals, and as we observe our dogs we start to learn the signals that our dogs give us.
It would a very valuable exercise for people to sit on a park bench with their dog on a leash and just watch the dog's signals as other people go by. If you have a reactive dog, you'd want to do this at a distance and it's best done with just you and one dog so you can really focus on that dog. You'll see what various signals are given. The dog's face is a great place for signals - watch the lips, the positioning of the head (high or low, muzzle up or down) and the positioning of the lips too. Watch the eyes and how they change when someone comes a little closer. Look at the entire body and see the posture - does it show tension, anticipation, fear? It's really fascinating to observe your dog fully without the distractions of the home around you.
So .. back to your question. With the dog aware that there's someone at a distance, you have a perfect opportunity to see your dog's relaxed signals (or at least semi-relaxed, because some dogs feel they have to be alert no matter how far away a person is). Then you reinforce for that relaxed state. When you move a bit closer, and your dog gets a bit more tense (but not overly reactive) you wait quietly until your dog shows signs of relaxing OR turns to you and takes their focus away from the person (which shows that they are not really uncomfortable with the stranger). Then you can praise and reward.
It's a series of small steps, and it takes awhile. But I've had dogs come to me for private consultations who have been extremely reactive (mostly to other dogs) and within a few sessions would walk calmly past another dog. It takes true dedication on the part of the owner but it can be done with many dogs.
I hope that answered your question!
Enjoy the sun this weekend .. temps in the 40's! WOOHOO!!
Melanie and the gang in Alaska
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IliamnasQuest
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- Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 8:04 am
- Location: Alaska
I guess it all depends in how you want to look at it. The truth of the matter is that the chow temperament, as spelled out in the breed standard and accepted by responsible breeders across the world, acknowledges that the chow can be "aloof" and yet aggression is NOT to be part of the personality. An aggressive chow should never be used in a breeding program, especially bitches. Puppies learn a tremendous amount from their dams in that first eight weeks of life, and attitude towards people can be a big part of that.Jeff&Peks wrote:I don't know about this bad breeding and lack of social skills and training or Roxie being scared, apparently just about every Chow on this site doesn't like to be approached by strangers. Half of them hate the vet and the other half will kill a groomer if you can find a groomer that will touch a Chow. I really don't think all these Chows are acting this way because of bad breeding, lack of training or not being feed the proper nutritional supplements. Must be just another Chow thing, as we always say.
I'm not sure when the concept of "aloof" became "it's okay to be aggressive". Aloof can be defined as "Distant physically or emotionally; reserved and remote". This is completely acceptable in the breed. I don't expect my chows to run enthusiastically to a stranger (although I don't fault them if they do). Puppies SHOULD be open to greeting strangers - even chow puppies. And as the chow matures, they generally develop more of that reserved nature. It's part of the "mysterious" nature of the breed.
However, there is nothing mysterious about a dog growling, lunging or wanting to bite without true cause. This is just completely unacceptable in the breed and it ISN'T a "chow thing". In fact, I find it quite dangerous for people to say that because it encourages the concept that the chow is a dangerous dog and that leads to public misconceptions - and on to breed specific legislation against our breed. The chow temperament has gone downhill in the past due to poor breeding practices (indiscriminate breeding in order to make money without considering the quality of the dogs) and poor socialization (as an aloof breed, the chow needs extensive early socialization to overcome fearful reactions). Now, there are always exceptions to the rule, but these are the two main reasons why chow temperaments are not good.
Like I said before, I've been to chow nationals twice before (currently going on in Olympia, Washington .. wish I could be there) and there are hundreds of chows at these nationals. You may see well over a hundred dogs in the same big room, getting ready for competition and mingling as they walk around the room - past strangers, past other dogs, etc. The typical well-bred and well-socialized chow will pretty much ignore those around him. He will be observant but not reactive. This is what you want in a chow personality.
I don't know why so many people on this list have reactive chows, but maybe it's because they look for a place that has other people with reactive chows and they end up here. What I'm saying is that the chow temperament shouldn't be like this, and these dogs are not proper representatives of the breed. I'm not saying this to put down anyone's dog - I have had reactive dogs in the past and I loved them to death - but what I'm saying is true.
When you have a reactive dog, you have three choices. You can get rid of it (not a great choice to me). You can try to work through the problems (seems like a logical thing to do) or you can just say "yep, my dog is aggressive" and keep your dog isolated from situations where it might cause injury to others. But what I really have a hard time with is people excusing the actions of their dog by saying "oh, this is typical behavior for this breed". That would be like me saying it's okay that my German shepherds bite because they're herding dogs and herding dogs use their mouths. Yes, biting is a natural thing. But it's not acceptable and I would never use "she's a German shepherd" as an excuse. (By the way, my shepherds have never bitten anyone! *L*).
I have three chows and all fully accept the vet, the groomer, the little kid at the store, the people in wheelchairs at the nursing home, the UPS man, the guys at the lodge (even when they're dressed up in waders and carring a huge fishing rod). Other than my young one, my dogs don't race up to strangers - they have their "aloofness" and that's fine. But under normal circumstances they are not aggressive or even reactive. Yes, they bark at people who walk by the van (Dora looks quite fierce - that black face and white teeth!) and I accept that. Yes, they race to the door barking and leaping at the door - and I'm fine with that. I WANT people to be a bit wary at my door (that's MY distrust of strangers .. *L*). But if I open the door and tell someone to come in, my dogs accept that stranger because I do.
Jeff, I'm glad that you've found a way to deal with your dog's particular needs. I think that's very important. But I can't accept anyone just saying 'oh, it's a chow thing" when that puts all of our chows at potential danger. Being aggressive should not be a chow thing, and I hope that we all work towards keeping others from thinking that it is.
Melanie and the gang in Alaska
Ya gotta love discussion forums. To a big extent, I do agree with Melanie. There is a huge difference in a chow being aloof and a chow being aggressive. A chow being aggressive does misrepresent the breed standard for temprement and misrepresents the breed itself. And it is poor breeding that has caused the breed to get the bad reputation that it has. But I can only speak from my own experience (which is quite limited) of the breed. Sasha was probably what most would call a good representative of the breed. Altho aloof, she was usually very good around strangers (as long as she was allowed to smell their feet first ), tolerated the vet and the groomer quite well. and I never had to worry about her being aggressive or biting. In her entire life we only had 5 incidents where she showed any signs of aggression whatsoever: 1- when her stitches were removed after she had been spayed (the vet was awful with her... he was a farm animal vet), 2- she tried to bite the firemens' butts when my house caught fire and she couldn't get to me, 3- when my granddaughter Tiffany (who Sasha was jealous of) was feeding her french fries and Sasha snapped at her, 4- when a friend and her kids were over and her little boy walked up behind Sasha and reached around her to take her food away, again Sasha snapped at him and 5- when my ex-husband came to pick up my daughters one night for visitation and walked up to my door and started hollering at me, Sasha bit his foot. He never came close to my door again. But other than those incidents, I never gave it another thought when strangers were over. Yes she did bark and check out the situation, but usually just went her own way and was a good girl. Koda on the other hand, is not good around people he doesn't know. And altho he has made some huge strides as he gets older, he is no where near as good around people as Sasha was. And we do continually work on that. He was the way he is when I got him, and whether it is his breeding or abuse, I don't know. But he never was a friendly chow puppy and as he gets older, he still shows "anxiety" at strangers, especially men. He loves going to the vet. He wags his tail and walks right in like he owns the place. Last weekend when we went in, Doc had 2 new vet techs working there... both male. Koda took one look at them and headed for the door. That is typical of his reaction to strangers, especially men. Does that mean we still have to work with him? Of course it does. But there has also got to be some middle ground there. I can't make Koda be what he isn't. But I can do my best to try and help aleviate some of his anxiety by taking him out and around people and different experiences so at least he gets where he can tolerate new situations and people. But I also feel as a responsible chow owner that I have to make people aware that he is a chow and he has to be respected and given the space he needs. So I don't feel bad about telling people, don't pet him, leave him alone, just ignore him. Bottom line is... Koda is my chow, this is his house and by nature, he is only going to allow a few into his inner circle of people that he loves.
To a big extent, I do agree with Melanie. There is a huge difference in a chow being aloof and a chow being aggressive. A chow being aggressive does misrepresent the breed standard for temprement and misrepresents the breed itself. And it is poor breeding that has caused the breed to get the bad reputation that it has. But I can only speak from my own experience (which is quite limited) of the breed. Sasha was probably what most would call a good representative of the breed. Altho aloof, she was usually very good around strangers (as long as she was allowed to smell their feet first ), tolerated the vet and the groomer quite well. and I never had to worry about her being aggressive or biting. In her entire life we only had 5 incidents where she showed any signs of aggression whatsoever: 1- when her stitches were removed after she had been spayed (the vet was awful with her... he was a farm animal vet), 2- she tried to bite the firemens' butts when my house caught fire and she couldn't get to me, 3- when my granddaughter Tiffany (who Sasha was jealous of) was feeding her french fries and Sasha snapped at her, 4- when a friend and her kids were over and her little boy walked up behind Sasha and reached around her to take her food away, again Sasha snapped at him and 5- when my ex-husband came to pick up my daughters one night for visitation and walked up to my door and started hollering at me, Sasha bit his foot. He never came close to my door again. But other than those incidents, I never gave it another thought when strangers were over. Yes she did bark and check out the situation, but usually just went her own way and was a good girl. Koda on the other hand, is not good around people he doesn't know. And altho he has made some huge strides as he gets older, he is no where near as good around people as Sasha was. And we do continually work on that. He was the way he is when I got him, and whether it is his breeding or abuse, I don't know. But he never was a friendly chow puppy and as he gets older, he still shows "anxiety" at strangers, especially men. He loves going to the vet. He wags his tail and walks right in like he owns the place. Last weekend when we went in, Doc had 2 new vet techs working there... both male. Koda took one look at them and headed for the door. That is typical of his reaction to strangers, especially men. Does that mean we still have to work with him? Of course it does. But there has also got to be some middle ground there. I can't make Koda be what he isn't. But I can do my best to try and help aleviate some of his anxiety by taking him out and around people and different experiences so at least he gets where he can tolerate new situations and people. But I also feel as a responsible chow owner that I have to make people aware that he is a chow and he has to be respected and given the space he needs. So I don't feel bad about telling people, don't pet him, leave him alone, just ignore him. Bottom line is... Koda is my chow, this is his house and by nature, he is only going to allow a few into his inner circle of people that he loves.Nancy and Tai
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I have to agree with Melanie. While Chingers is cautious of people, we do not tolerate any type of growling. He can huff and puff and pout but he is not allowed to growl. He is not scared of strangers, he will walk up to anyone looking for a treat, he just does not like to be pet. And while that is okay to a certain extent, I want to compete with him in obedience, and so I need him to accept minimally a quick pet from a judge. Plus, I want to make sure, that if anything ever happened to me, that my dog would be okay going to another persons home.