conversation with a vet this past weekend

[Victory]

I had an interesting conversation with a vet. this past weekend. He admitted that he doesn't treat chows in his clinic. He said it's not because of the breed; it's because of some of the owners of the breed. He described getting bit by a chow, not a nip, but serious damage to his wrist resulting in carpal problems which left some numbness in the thumb and two first fingers of the hand, (for a surgeon this is a problem). He said that after that incident, which was one of many, he banned chows, akitas and some of the other breeds from his practice. He said several times it's because of the owners, people who refuse to allow vets to muzzle.

We talked about anthisiea and he said that the best techniques these days allow the dog or cat to be up and about in a few hours, the way is to administer, locals to the surgery site before the surgery, then the major anathesia, and pain control meds after surgery before the gas stops. So there is no pain or the pain is controled upon waking.

We also talked about food, and how bad corn and wheat are for most dogs and all cats. This vet called himself a cat whisperer and said that he's actually been able to get some diabetic cats into remission by changing their diets to all protein.

It was interesting talking to him and learning a few things about anatomy and stuff.

[Larry Harris]

We also talked about food, and how bad corn and wheat are for most dogs and all cats

It is kind of interesting how pet food came to be. After WWW 1 there was an excess of corn. A entrepreneur decided to turn it in to pet food. It was not made for pet health but a way to use the corn and not lose money. They at oe time even used horse meat as a way to get rid of the dead.

Even today though we now know better it is still used in many many pet foods. One of the many factories I visit was a dog food plant. I was always amazed at the amount of corn they brought in every day. And how many different brands are made in the same plant.

We also a at least two clinics here that will not treat Chows, Rots and a few other breeds.

http://www.sojos.com/historyofpetfood.html

Larry

[Laura]

hmmm I always think it is interesting to talk with a vet...lord knows I would like to corner mine for a few hours . BUT I am not in favor of banning breeds. It is stereotyping...animal racism if you will... and regardless of his negative experiences I would have told him so...along with a few other things . Refusing to perform an exam w/out a muzzle if he felt it was necessary is one thing. I have no problem with self-preservation but banning entire breeds only fuels the 'chows are vicious dogs' hysteria which leads to things like insurance companies who refuse to insure homes with certain breeds or whole counties who want to ban certain breeds. If as he says it is because of the owners and not the breed then he should refuse service accordingly. Sorry but this sort of thing gets my hackles up but I am trying to restrain myself.

[Jeff&Peks]

Typical vet thinking, blame it on the owner. The only vets/doctors Pekoe would allow touch her were vets that didn't want her muzzled. I spent 45 miniutes trying to muzzle Pekoe when I first took her to her new vet as soon as he walked in he told me to take the muzzle off of her, He said he didn't like working on Muzzled Dogs especially when the dog didn't like it them selves. In most cases its not the owner, its the vets bed side manor and what the Chow picks up from them when they first walk in. I have spent many $35, $45 worthless vet visits trying to find Pekoe a vet she will tolorate, So far Pekoe has always been right.

[jacqui]

I don't believe in putting a muzzle on a dog that doesn't need one.if the owner knows their dog is good.I have refused to muzzle every chow I've had until Kai.as soon as we enter the hospital he won't let anyone near him.he has been having some medical problems and he does not want the vet or vet tech touching him.yesterday more tests and he started his growling and nipping,for the first time in my life I said use the muzzle

[Layla]

I've been thinking of changing vets for a little while & they sealed the deal with all the antibiotics they keep trying to give M&A & by muzzling Millie to have her urine sample taken. I was They didn't even ask me! Millie has never indicated a need for a mussle & that ticked me RIGHT off. It's a shame as I like my vet, she was unbelievably supportive (emotionally & finacially) with Milo but to the vet techs.

[Jeff&Peks]

Pekoe is the worst when it comes to vets, no one touches her but there are vets out there that know there might be a problem with some breeds and will spend some outside the office time with the Chow. The vet Pekoe has now even though he's busy made an apointment just to spend time with her and walk her around the office he didn't charge me anything. Her cancer doctor and staff spent hours with her walking her around, one tech even carried her around for awhile to get her use to them picking her up. Like I said, its not the Chow, its not the owner, its the vet.

People had me believing it was Pekoe or something I was doing wrong at one time but I know forsure now its not Pekoe. Pekoe is still no angel with the good vets but lets just say Pekoe and the vet came to an understanding. They don't trust each other but they tolorate each other.

[pfordeb]

So sorry you had that experience. I agree with Jeff, it's the vet. If I even knew a vet banished breeds I'd be up in arms.

I've mentioned my only muzzle experience and I'm still mad I let them do it. Normally, I literally have my face in all the kids faces when they are being examined, given shots, whatever -- not a nip yet to me or any vets.

However, you do not want to see Charlie's face when he has the *Censored Word* gland squeeze -- AHH OOOOO.

[Chow Chow Mama]

It seems I am lucky to have found a vet where everyone loves my dog. They rave about Holden every time I take him in about how well groomed he is and they wish all of their other Chow owners took such good care of their dogs. I switch between 2 of the 3 vets (one male, one female) and Holden prefers the female vet (he prefers females over males in most instances) but even when he acts like he's going to eat up the male vet, the doctor just kind of laughs it off and tells him what a good boy he is for trying to protect his mommy.

[kingalls]

When I first got Shiloh, I brought her into the vet I had always gone to for our cats. Usually he had an additional vet there as he is mainly a horse vet - but not the day I brought in Shiloh. I didn't know much about dogs - much less a Chow Chow but I saw right away that the vet was not comfortable. Shiloh looked like Bambi taking it's first steps - she was practically spread eagle on the floor while I tried to pull her into the examining room - meanwhile the vet is telling me to be careful that she doesn't bite me! We managed to get through the examine with me holding onto her trembling body - but it was obvious the vet was just doing the minimal to get us out of the office. Later I found out that he was very badly bitten by a Chow Chow and that he probably accomodated my visit because I had been taking my cats to him for so many years.
Fortunately, our current vet and his staff are familar with Chow Chows. Mr. N is use to being muzzled at the groomers. The vet will want to muzzle Shiloh depending on what he needs to do. I am the person that will administer the muzzle. My perspective is that I am protecting my two from any situation that might put them in quarantine.
Vets are human and if they have had a bad experience with dealing with a particular breed - it is the bad experience they will remember and not whether or not the owners were being responsible.

[nuke]

Everyone knows that vets are mostly stupid and only want to torture or kill your chow.

[nuke]

Typical vet thinking, blame it on the owner.

So I guess you blame "it" on the breed then?

Be honest for once. Chows are more likely to pose a risk to a vet than a lot of other dogs.

[nuke]

Pekoe is the worst when it comes to vets, no one touches her but there are vets out there that know there might be a problem with some breeds and will spend some outside the office time with the Chow.

Why not just muzzle the dog and be safe? A muzzle won't kill your dog.

[nuke]

there are vets out there that know there might be a problem with some breeds .

You mean there might be a few vets out there that know some breeds might be a problem? I am shocked!

[KathrynH]

I hate seeing a dog muzzled, but I know that Buddha is a fear biter, and therefore am more than willing to have him muzzled than end up having him put down because someone overreacted to a little nip. I'd rather have him muzzled than risk losing my baby.
I understand the vets point of view, I don't agree with "doggy profiling", but fact is, Chows, Dobermans, Rottweilers, Pit Bulls, all those dogs have been known to be more aggressive (whether it's the owner fault, the breeders fault, whatever), and I don't blame them for wanting to be more careful with those breeds. However, it does seem like the nicest dog breeds seem to be getting mean, like labs. I always thought those were supposed to be the most docile, gentle dogs, but after reading how many of our chows have been attacked by them, it just goes to show you don't know how ANY dog will react in any given situation.

[nuke]

Typical vet thinking, blame it on the owner.

So Jeff, you own an aggressive Chow. Your chow has bitten people you/she knows and has bitten you more than once.

Who do you blame it on? Do you blame the owner or the chow? My guess is that you blame anything other than the owner or the chow.

Just blame the vets. They are stupid and only want to kill your dog.

[coleywoley]

I personally am of the opinion that any vet who is not comfortable with my lovelies is not one I want to see. We are looking for a new vet for ginger because of that. I don't agree with breed profiling but it lets you know right up front what kind of treatment your chow would get if they were to visit that vet otherwise. The vet will be uncomfortable and your chow will pick up on that and react to it.
I do not agree with muzzling a dog. The one time we had to was when we put our beagle to sleep. The vet refused to put her to sleep otherwise because she might bite them as a reaction to the meds. It was horrible, just thinking about it makes me cry.
Nuke- chow are not more likely to pose a risk to the vet then other breeds. My dachshund will bite you long before Ginger will. And so will many of the other small breeds. Just because they are small does not mean your hand won't fit in their mouth and that they won't do damage while it's there. I have seen some of the yappy breeds grab onto something with their mouth and refuse to let go. Quite frankly IMO your posts show you ignorance and are in no way informative or helpful to anyone reading the forum.

[chow fancier]

We are blessed with the vets we have found here. For a little while we lived in a rural area with only a single vet who was obviously uncomfortable with the breed. He actually refused to see my little girl on an emergency basis, when she couldn't keep down water, was having difficulty walking and was obviously severely dehydrated when I got home from work one day.

We drove over an hour to the big city and a vet who had never seen us before but came well recommended by a friend with Labs. This vet came in after hours, met me at the car, carried her in the office and we all sat on the floor together as he examined her. He let me hold her as he started an IV and gave her some antinausea meds by injection. No talk of muzzling or of whether she was aggressive, just lots of gentle words and kind touches. Needless to say, this vet's clinic has seen all my animals ever since. (We moved to town shortly thereafter to be near work, so now it's a five minute drive to the vet).

All the vets in this clinic get down on the floor with the pups and none have ever tried to pet the chows on the top of the head, which the pups have all deplored. I have never heard a word about a muzzle. Chana, our first blind chow, regularly had her tear ducts flushed with only a local anesthetic and it turns out she is the only dog they have ever trusted to do that.

Admittedly, none of my chows have ever behaved agressively towards the vets, either. The only time one of my pups have bitten anyone is when I pulled them apart during a fight over a cat just outside our fence and I got bit.

[Jeff&Peks]

Nuke, Friends are always telling me to quit talking to drunks and lunatic's or I'm going to get my self shot....You being the Village Idiot what group are you in so I know how to respond to you. Take your Paxel and com down, Your never going to win Chris's heart talking like that.

[Auddymay]

Hard day at work, Nuke? Never had my Chows muzzled, and none of my other dogs, either. When we go to the vet, I hold them in such a way, that if anyone gets bit, it will be me. I have a vet practice that doesn't become fearful if Lily gruffs when they walk in the room. Having said that, if I were a vet and I felt fearful, I would muzzle before refusing treatment to an animal.

[TJordan]

Well this is interesting. I would ususally agree that they shouldn't be muzzled. But I have to say, I don't mind if my vet wants to protect himself or his staff. My vet is not scared of Butters (Even though he is a total ball of chaos) My vet understands that Butters is scared. But mostly I think his staff is a little scared of Butters. So if they want to wrangle his little mouth closed it isn't hurting Butters and Butters is gonna act bad either way. At least they fell safe enough to check him out throughly and if that is what it taks then I don't mind. I would much rather them do that then not check him properly, or suggest stuff to knock him out.

[Victory]

Goodness! A little story and so many opinions. First this wasn't my vet, my vet ADORES chows even the ones that are hard to handle, or who's owners haven't trained or learned to control them.

As far muzzleing them; I have actually told my vet which of my chows needed to be muzzled and INSISTED that they use a muzzle. One because I don't want any of their staff or them to be bit, AND since I am always right there with them, I really don't want to get bit myself. They normally only need if for the parts of the exam that had to do with the front of their bodies, ears, eyes, front legs, front paws, (nail clipping) taking blood, that kind of thing and it doesn't stay on for the whole exam.

A muzzle used correctly and for a short time isn't a burden. Ming had to be muzzled, Darkwind didn't. Firesong for all her flightly nervousness doesn't need to be muzzled, offer her praise and treats and she's fine. Dreamdancer can't see anyone hurting him so he's okay too.

Again, it really depends on the chow owner, I simply will NOT tolerate a chow, (or any animal) that I can't control fully. In fact this weekend Firesong and Dreamdancer are both going to go back to remedial school, seperate walks to instill a bit of discipline back into them. For the next little bit, my sunday afternoons will be spent in some intense training for both of them.

I found the conversation this past weekend to be interesting, not because of the comments about people who won't train, or don't train their canines, but also it was nice to hear another vet say that my own vet is using some good techniques in so far as anthesia and other things.

And like someone said, vets are people, some are better with some dogs, some better with others, some will only take care of cats, some large animals. If I had contined and become a vet I wanted to specialize in zoo animals, or it would have been dogs and horses, (my two favorites) I don't mind if a vet has a perference as long as they are upfront about it. I'd rather be told from the start that a vet won't treat my chows, rather than my one experience where I spent $95 after leaving my MingToy at a clinic for the whole day, only to come pick him up and find that nothing had been done. This after the vet had assured me that I didn't need to stay.

That is bad business and as far as I'm concerned a rip-off, to charge for services not done.

I think it is good to be open with Vets, and to have honest conversations with them, be informed and knowledgable and let them know that. The more they see informed owners of every breed, the more conversations they have with people who can see their points the better it will be for everyone, because it's through conversations held from respect that understanding is achieved.

[Victory]

So I guess you blame "it" on the breed then?

Be honest for once. Chows are more likely to pose a risk to a vet than a lot of other dogs.

Nuke, SOME chows are likely to pose a risk to a vet than a lot of other dogs, same as some Rotties, some Huskies, some Akitas, some pits etc. It's in the TRAINING. Before getting any dog, the new owner should have a manual and I swear some of them need to pass a test, that they know and understand the breed and what it takes to make and keep them safe.

I don't think any vet would have a problem with several of the chows on this site, like Melanies, and some of the others who have passed their Canine Good Citizen tests or who have certified to visit senior homes and schools.

If Dreamdancer was a little bit calmer he'd make a good visitor, he loves to be petted, but he's a bit young and will still jump up on folks for attention, (another thing we're going to work one-on-one with). But he may become a canine visitor to schools and such in the future after he matures a bit mor.

[chowchowdaddy]

When we got our first chow, Chia, many years ago, I called the vet that my family had always used to make an appointment to bring her in for a check-up and to have her spayed. When they asked what type of dog she was, I replied that she was a chow. They informed me that they didn't take chows. So, I asked them "Can I just bring her in for you to meet her and if you don't want to take her, I'll find someone else?" They agreed to that. When I got her there, she charmed them so much that now they have a large chow clientele!

When we got Ming as a puppy, we took him straight to the vet for a quick check-up and introductions. Our vet picked him up, jostled him around, held him up in the air and kept saying, "Oh, Ming, you're gonna be a big boy, what a big boy you're gonna be." How prophetic, Ming's huge and I blame the vet!!!

When we lost Chia to cancer a few years ago, we had a memorial service in her honor and our vet and several members of his staff came. They even made a substantial donation to Purdue University School of Veterinary Medicine in her honor...

[jaxsun_12]

I'm thinking about changing vets. the one we saw wanted Jack muzzled every time he saw him or he wont come in the room. I asked why and he said it was because jack bit him after he got fixed. The last time we took him to the vet the assistant gave us the muzzle and the vet that was there came in and took it off him and jack was fine and loved the new guy. he even licked him after he got the thermometer up the butt.