Why is there NOT a pet overpopulation problem in the U.K.?

kirstyM · Post by **kirstyM** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:17 pm

its often said the british care more about their pets than other people and i can see the truth in it.
You just have to look at the animal charities the RSPCA and PDSA which gives free health care to families on benifits which leads to healthier animals, i do see alot of staffs and greyhounds looking for homes around london & essex, I dont know what its like in other parts of the country?
there was a big story on a guy that was killing perfectly health ex- racing dogs for money.
Chows are probably one of the rarest breed in the u.k i have never seen another chow nor has anyone else around here which is why kaizer gets so much atention but thats down to the breeding clubs, the u.k chow chow club rehomes about 40 dogs ayear which isnt alot.

nuke · Post by **nuke** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:36 pm

People in the UK care more about their pets than people in the US? I seriously doubt that.

The UK is a "nanny" state and the people there seem to be happy with a government that forces them to comply with the "nanny".

I'd rather put Ziggy to sleep and then kill myself, than live in the UK and put up with the socialist insanity that has taken over the greatest nation in the history of the world.

No offense intended, just my opinion.

Layla · Post by **Layla** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:45 pm

nuke wrote:The UK is a "nanny" state and the people there seem to be happy with a government that forces them to comply with the "nanny".

I'd rather put Ziggy to sleep and then kill myself, than live in the UK and put up with the socialist insanity that has taken over the greatest nation in the history of the world.

Want to support that with some fact / examples? I've always felt that the NHS was a grand example of how our Nanny state IMO

KirstyM said that it's often said that the British care more about their pets than their PEOPLE... NOT more about their pets than the US.....

nuke · Post by **nuke** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:53 pm

kirstyM wrote: Chows are probably one of the rarest breed in the u.k i have never seen another chow nor has anyone else around here which is why kaizer gets so much atention but thats down to the breeding clubs, the u.k chow chow club rehomes about 40 dogs ayear which isnt alot.

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Maybe the nanny told people in the UK that Chows are dangerous. Maybe nanny knows what's best.

In America, we (speaking for myself) kind of like the freedom to live our lives and decide for ourselves which breed of dogs we would like to own and love.

Layla · Post by **Layla** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:57 pm

Nuke,

In the Uk Chows do not have the nasty reputation they have in the US. I'd never even HEARD that until I had Milile as a 10 week old. It's not that they are though to be dangerous. It's just that other dogs are VERY popular.

I'd be interested to see WHERE you got the idea that the UK has more breed legislation than the US. Please enlighten me.

nuke · Post by **nuke** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:59 pm

Layla wrote:
nuke wrote:The UK is a "nanny" state and the people there seem to be happy with a government that forces them to comply with the "nanny".

I'd rather put Ziggy to sleep and then kill myself, than live in the UK and put up with the socialist insanity that has taken over the greatest nation in the history of the world.
Want to support that with some fact / examples? I've always felt that the NHS was a grand example of how our Nanny state IMO

KirstyM said that it's often said that the British care more about their pets than their PEOPLE... NOT more about their pets than the US.....

the NHS??? Are you kidding? I'd rather slit my throat than have such a terrible health care system. It's a joke.

If you have a job in the UK, you probably pay for "real" health" insurance and do not bother with the nanny care.

America has the best health care in the world. And we have it because researchers, doctors, and pharmacies are willing to spend big money in order to reap big money in return for all of the BIG money they spend.

If

Layla · Post by **Layla** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:07 pm

You may have great medical science in the US, but health CARE? ONly if you are lucky enough to work for a good company or have the resources to pay independantly.

The NHS is FAR from perfect. But, they will provide the really expensive services (like ITU, neuro -rehabilitation, chemo, etc) to EVERYONE for your taxes. You would never be unable to afford to ahve your life saved in the UK. Although, that's probably not going to be the case for much longer.

You didn't answer my questions though Nuke...

nuke · Post by **nuke** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:14 pm

Layla wrote:You may have great medical science in the US, but health CARE? ONly if you are lucky enough to work for a good company or have the resources to pay independantly.

The NHS is FAR from perfect. But, they will provide the really expensive services (like ITU, neuro -rehabilitation, chemo, etc) to EVERYONE for your taxes. You would never be unable to afford to ahve your life saved in the UK. Although, that's probably not going to be the case for much longer.

You didn't answer my questions though Nuke...

In the US, we have the best health care in the world.

No person in the US, even non citizens, can be denied care. The difference is that every American (and illegal immigrant) can get care immediately, regardless of ability to pay.

We do not need a NHS, we already have the best NHS in the world.

nuke · Post by **nuke** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:18 pm

Layla wrote:You may have great medical science in the US, but health CARE? ONly if you are lucky enough to work for a good company or have the resources to pay independantly.

I have never worked for a "good" company and I have always had health insurance.

I had cancer when I was 30. No insurance......was treated and I am now 42, healthy.

Go figure.

The nanny ALWAYS knows best though...

Layla · Post by **Layla** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:24 pm

nuke wrote:
Layla wrote:You may have great medical science in the US, but health CARE? ONly if you are lucky enough to work for a good company or have the resources to pay independantly.

The NHS is FAR from perfect. But, they will provide the really expensive services (like ITU, neuro -rehabilitation, chemo, etc) to EVERYONE for your taxes. You would never be unable to afford to ahve your life saved in the UK. Although, that's probably not going to be the case for much longer.

You didn't answer my questions though Nuke...
In the US, we have the best health care in the world.

No person in the US, even non citizens, can be denied care. The difference is that every American (and illegal immigrant) can get care immediately, regardless of ability to pay.

We do not need a NHS, we already have the best NHS in the world.

So, you get hit in a RTA, of course you get treated. That is the only humane way to exist. BUT, you get the bill as well do you not?

So, you get cancer, you can walk into a hospital & ask for treatment... with no coverage / means to pay?

Certainly, with great health insurance the US healthcare
system is amazing. I have been lucky enough to see that with my DH. However, is he lost his job tomorrow.... I have no illusions that we would not get HUGE medcial bills if either of us needed medical care.

That is the difference between the US healthcare system & the UK NHS. Annoying when you are waiting for that appointment in the UK for sure. But, paying for stroke rehabilitation in the US.... more expensive than most people even dream. The whole premise of setting up the NHS was that healthcare should be avalible REGARDLESS of personal wealth.

Interesting that you'd rather jump on my example than explain your own comments though..... Did you think the UK had banned chows?

nuke · Post by **nuke** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:28 pm

Layla wrote:Y
The NHS is FAR from perfect. But, they will provide the really expensive services (like ITU, neuro -rehabilitation, chemo, etc) to EVERYONE for your taxes.

And nobody pays for it? It's free! Thank you, Nanny.

I wonder why anyone in the UK would opt to PAY for private health care, when the world's best is available for free?

Socialism sucks.

Layla · Post by **Layla** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:37 pm

nuke wrote:Socialism sucks

As long as we're dealing with that as arguement....

I can see you have no coherent evidence based arguement to support your views in this matter.

nuke · Post by **nuke** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:45 pm

Layla wrote:
nuke wrote:Socialism sucks
As long as we're dealing with that as arguement....

I can see you have no coherent evidence based arguement to support your views in this matter.

So you think socialism does not suck? Wow!

Americans do not like to be told how to live their lives. We do not require a "nanny".

The UK used to be the greatest nation in the history of the world......now it's just a little rock run by the nanny.

Very sad.

brad873 · Post by **brad873** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 5:00 am

the truth is, we brits do care more about our pets than most people in the us. and as for the nanny state, thats not entiarly true anymore. we are commin up right behind the us in health care, it has improoved since brown took over. the nanny is a good system, we may have alot of knife crime, but we do have more order than the usa, we are more sivalized, and to be fair, your leader isnt a totle ideot, no offens. but lets get back to the main topic hear, before this becomes an argument over countrys.

Judy Fox · Post by **Judy Fox** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:35 am

nuke wrote:
The UK is a "nanny" state and the people there seem to be happy with a government that forces them to comply with the "nanny".

I'd rather put Ziggy to sleep and then kill myself, than live in the UK and put up with the socialist insanity that has taken over the greatest nation in the history of the world.

Nuke! I think you are very rude!
On these boards we have many different races, religions and colours to I would be most obliged if you would keep your stupid remarks about the United Kingdom to yourself.

You cannot make blanket statements like you have about another country. That is what causes wars!

Have you seen me spout off about what I think of the American Sates, or the Australian Government - I think not - so just shut it!!

(And please do not bother to come to this country, would hate to see Ziggy harmed - hope it is safe with you with such an unbalanced attitude!)

brad873 · Post by **brad873** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:52 am

^ 100% agree with u fox, nuke, there was no need to insult out country that way, i could say sooooooooooooo much about the U.S.A but i have more respect than that. also, it seem that you are the only one with those views, as a whole load of americans are coming hear now for some reason

Judy Fox · Post by **Judy Fox** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:59 am

In America, we (speaking for myself) kind of like the freedom to live our lives and decide for ourselves which breed of dogs we would like to own and love.

Here on The Island, we do have the freedom to live our lives and decide for ourselves which breed of dogs we would like to own and love.
However, our Chow Chows here on The Island are all well bred, do not seem to have the nasty streakes that some of the blood lines in the States have.
If I remember rightly, I have read on these very boards tales of :-

Not being able to get house insurance if one owns a chow.

Chows being discriminated against by landlords.

People with chows not being welcome in vet's sugeries.

Some States having Chows on the dangerous dogs list and even banning chows.

Please, do not talk to me about freedom to live your lives.........................etc. etc.

Why - some of you by your own admission have had to tell landlords etc. that your chow chows are some sort of cross between an akita and a red squirrel or something!

Judy Fox · Post by **Judy Fox** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 7:03 am

Brad - my name is Judy - and just you remember Boyo, that we are Welsh - and Gwen - now that COULD open a whole new discussion but I think that we will not go down that path!!

Breathless · Post by **Breathless** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 7:11 am

Well said Judy!
Like every country the US has it's positives and negatives. Having the best healthcare though, never heard that one before.

On the contrary, one of the main reason for ppl to join the military is for better healthcare. Sure you can go to the ER and they can't deny you, but I just read an article about the horrible conditions there. Out of my own experience I can say the waiting time is ridiculous. Germany offers healthinsurance for everyone, employed or unemployed.

Back to the subject, Germany also doesn't consider Chow Chows a dangerous breed. Is there any other country besides the US that does?

brad873 · Post by **brad873** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 7:24 am

i dont think so, but remember there was a crazz for thrm at one time, and they endd up badley bred

Layla · Post by **Layla** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 7:31 am

Thank goodness you guys woke up! I was NOT impressed last night about this thread. Nicely put everyone.

Layla

kirstyM · Post by **kirstyM** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 8:16 am

As a uk citizen and a nures who works in the NHS i thought your views were very insulting.
England is not a dictatorship or im sure i wouldnt still be living here, your free to own what breed of dog you like, i never heard that chows were vicious untill i came on here, maybe they are one of the rarer breeds because of responsible breeders.
And i didnt say british people care more about their animals than the USA, animals seem to be treated with the same respect as people, you only have to look at all the charities for them.

Red Dragon · Post by **Red Dragon** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:27 am

Nuke, I have to laugh about the US having the best health care too, this country is a joke for the most part when it comes to that. Care to explain why alot of people travel to other countries for health care services that they cannot get in this country because of all of the ridiculous laws?

Health care in this country is not free either, nothing in life is free, somebody has to pay. If you received cancer treatment for free, it was not free! It was paid for by tax payers, or the hospital ate the cost, or the insurance company paid for it. Either way the people of this country paid for your health care, either in the form of raised medical cost to pay for all the free rides, higher insurance rates to cover the cost of higher medical bills, or paying through the nose in high taxes.

Go walk in a hospital around here and need to get something done without an insurance card, they will kindly ask you to leave if you do not have insurance or cash in hand.

We have idiots for doctors in this country too, all the hacks in this country have done nothing but raise the cost of insurance to cover their screw ups, in the end guess who pays for that, that's right, yours truely!

It's no great mistery why people can't afford insurance in the US!

LEO's mum · Post by **LEO's mum** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:49 am

If "socialism" is a system which cares for it's people on fair & simple tax system what's wrong w/ it? NHS, tho w/ it's problems(money/organizational etc) works better as a whole than the US system where only the "better off" can get care out of their own pockets/insurance or "very needy" out of charity/taxes.
I know for a fact that we pay just as much tax here in SF w/ federal & local tax(and it's such a complex tax system!!) as in the UK. But we don't see the benefits of it. No NHS, horrible road surfaces, museums that one has to pay to enter!

Getting back to the pet overpopulation problem, or lack there of in the UK, I think it is a public education issue, or more of social values issue. Societies learned being "civil" as in highly poplulated areas everyone need to be "civil" for the whole system to survive. It is not the "Nanny State" that dictates "humane" treatment of animals, it is the "civil society" as a whole. Despite some abuse that goes on in the corners, as it could in any society, being "humane" is extremely important there. It is pretty much accepted that it is cruel to leave dogs alone for a long time, just as you would not leave kids unattended for a long time.

If that sounds to suffocating, I suppose you'd just have to live out in the dessert, where you belong. But remember no man is an island......

Judy Fox · Post by **Judy Fox** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 2:52 pm

Thank you Leo's Mum!

Indeed, no man is an Island, especially on my beautiful Island!...............or indeed on your and Leo's Daddy's Islands!

As you say, cruelty and inhumane actions to exist on My Island - and as I said, I see very little of it here in my town. We are a small industrial town here in Crewe - developing but mostly our population has the humane values that you speak about. We do actually help each other with our animals - we know each other's animals and I know, I absolutely KNOW for certain that if I needed urgent help with M & M I could call on a whole variety of people i.e. my family, my neighbours, my fellow Catholics, my friends, the R.S.P.C.A. - and I know I would get unconditional help.

It is comforting.......................