Trying to mate my Chow Chows Q's?

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Christopher In Tampa
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Trying to mate my Chow Chows Q's?

Post by Christopher In Tampa » Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:32 pm

Hello....

By the way I am new to this forum.

I have two Chow's. One male (named bear) and one female (named Foxy). The males age is unknown, I adopted him 5 years ago from a guy that found him. The female is 3 years old and I bought her as a pup.

I was hoping to mate the two of them as I really want a Pup from the blood line of bear since he is very special to me.

In most cases and times both Bear and Foxy love each other and get along great. Foxy is always giving him kisses and he (bear) would kill for her.


Anyway... the problem is I dont think the female is letting the male mount up (if thats the correct way to put it). When she's in heat he will attemped to mount up but she will snap at him causing a fight.

My question is... what can i do to help ease my female into letting the male do his job? Is there any hope?

Here are some pics of my Chows...


Image This is Bear with my Wife

Image Foxy at 11 weeks old (she's 3 years old now)

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Post by Guest » Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:16 pm

While I think that your dogs are goergous, and they look like they are wonderful pets, I personally do not think it is a good idea to mate a dog with an unknown history. Chows carry genetic defects just like any other breed and alot of times the specific dog may never have anything wrong with him but if there is something like Hip Dysplacia or Luxating Patella or Entropian or anything else in the lines, your risks are MUCH higher of passing those traits down to the pups. I have had two dogs that had to be put to sleep due to genetic defects, both were Chow mixes. It is a horrible decision to make when they are your babies. But please reconsider. It is something that no one ever should have to go through.

Guest

Post by Guest » Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:16 pm

Oh, By the way, WELCOME to the forum!!!

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Taz
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Post by Taz » Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:21 pm

I don't like when people mate their dogs just to get a puppy from them,
because as you said, the male dog doesn't have pedigree.
And then you don't know if he has any heritable disease etc.
Maybe his mum or dad had really bad HD, or was agressive dogs, then you could pass that on to the puppies.
I really would suggest to rather by a puppy from a breeder.

But to your question, i've learned that it is very difficult to mate Chows.
Inseminate?
If the bitch won't be mated, it is probably a good idea not to do it, because it might be a reason why she won't do it..

Talked to a breeder here in Norway (Akita inu) and she told me that she had a bitch that wouldn't be mated, so she used insemination.
And all the puppies from that litter went crazy.
Or it was something wrong with all of them.

By the way. Welcome. :D

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carolyn dewrance
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Post by carolyn dewrance » Sat Jan 14, 2006 3:00 am

I have done artificial insemination on all my chows, and they are all registered chows, so have always had good hoes waiting for them you may once in a life time get a chow to mate normaly, if you want I will send you a private email to tell you how it is done, only takes about three minutes and I have always been successful with no retard chows in the litters. I have been doing AI for 30 years.
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Christopher In Tampa
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Post by Christopher In Tampa » Sat Jan 14, 2006 6:07 am

Hello carolyn dewrance...

Yes could you please email me the details on artificial insemination at itzbouttimefool@msn.com

Thanks so much.

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mating

Post by Rogansmommy » Sat Jan 14, 2006 6:56 am

Hi Christopher in Tampa:

Alot of times it is impossible to mate dogs that have grown up together. I'm not sure why, but they just won't. Maybe it's a 'sibling' thing? :shock: I don't know. But I do know of many breeders who have said this.

I know you want one of Bear's puppies, but what about the rest of the litter? There isn't a high demand for Chows in the Tampa Bay area (I live in Apollo Beach); actually they are quite discouraged down here because of the Breed Restrictions on the Home Owner's insurance policies. I would hate to see the pups in a shelter.

Have you also thought about the fact that the dogs might be telling you something? Like they don't want to be bred? It is very difficult; I would go so far as to say impossible, to get a Chow to do something it doesn't want to do.

Just a thought...
Michele

^Rogan^ at the Bridge on 5/16/09 -- always in my heart

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Christopher In Tampa
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Post by Christopher In Tampa » Sat Jan 14, 2006 8:43 am

I didnt think they would be hard to find homes. When I bought Foxy the seller only had 3 left (out of 8 if I remember correct) and she said they went much faster than she thought they would.

My brother and his wife is waiting for Foxy to have Puppies so thats one Good home for one Puppy. And of course I will be keeping one.

The rest will be sold to good homes. Even if it takes a long time... I would keep all before I would ever let them be handed over to a shelter. And of course I will always have my door open for a return, anything but to have one in a shelter.

Being a Chow lover since I was a kid and haveing friends who had them as well, I have been around them for years. The Chows of them days had a more firm attitude and was more "Chow like". Seems as now n days there is a trend with breeders to breed more family friendly Chows that are steering away from the Chows original temperament. They are breeding very timid Chows.

I guess this is good for the Family that is hoping to have a Family chow and of course this is good for the breeder because their chows will sell easier and business will be better. But this is not the Chows original temperament that I remember of the old days.

Thats why I see Bear as very special to me... He has all the personality traits of the original Chows before this trend of family chow breeding started

I could buy a Chow from a breeder but I could end up with a watered down version.
Last edited by Christopher In Tampa on Sat Jan 14, 2006 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Auddymay » Sat Jan 14, 2006 3:10 pm

Welcome! Oh, and do you know? I think Bear is posessed by the devil! That's some eye glowing there! J/K He is very handsome, ans so is your fOXY.

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Post by willowchow » Sat Jan 14, 2006 9:03 pm

Hi Chris and Welcome. Your dogs are gorgeous, no question about that!

I have a dog that was bred by some people who just wanted to breed their pets. She has many problems and also behavior issues. Please reconsider this. The reasons you're breeding are not the right ones and I'm wondering if Bear doesn't have some temperment issues because of your comments about him having an original temperment and not wanting a watered down version. Or am I reading this wrong?

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Post by Zhuyos mom » Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:29 am

Welcome, Chris. You seriously have to consider Foxy in this equation. If she won't let Bear mount her, then she doesn't want to be impregnated by him. She doesn't want to be pregant by him and you're forcing your desire for Bear's heir on her. Consider her personality may change after giving birth. I've heard that happen. Keep in mind that whatever personality change occurs may not be favorable in your household. I agree with all but one of the posters that offered advise to you. The unknown genetic factors are there. If you've been around chows for so long, you know. Also, I'm not quite sure what you mean about the specific breeding "family friendly chows" versus the "original temperament chows". Our family had chows in the early '80's and they had the same personality/temperament traits as the one's we have in the '90's and 2000's. Are you referring to a more aggressive type of chow?

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Post by Shane » Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:52 pm

It's good that you want to breed them. I want to say this quuite quick later I'll go into more detail, if you breed them most likley you'll pups will be brindle or sable.

Shane

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Post by Victory » Thu Jan 19, 2006 2:03 pm

Here is the temperment standard from the AKC; just updated this year.

Temperament
Keen intelligence, an independent spirit and innate dignity give the Chow an aura of aloofness. It is a Chow’s nature to be reserved and discerning with strangers. Displays of aggression or timidity are unacceptable. Because of its deep set eyes the Chow has limited peripheral vision and is best approached from the front.

Summary
Faults shall be penalized in proportion to their deviation from the standard. In judging the Chow, the overall picture is of primary consideration. Exaggeration of any characteristic at the expense of balance or soundness shall be severely penalized.

Type should include general appearance, temperament, the harmony of all parts, and soundness especially as seen when the dog is in motion. There should be proper emphasis on movement which is the final test of the Chow's conformation, balance and soundness.


So if breeders are breeding "timid" chows they are not to breed standard and a timid dog is more of a danger in some circumstances than an aggressive dog. but that's neither here nor there.

If you are going to breed them and you have more than one puppy, (first litters can be small only 1-3 puppies) then you need to in my opinion; be willing to not just sell them but to sell them only to educated owners, people who know chows, who are willing to commit for life. And you need to be willing to take the puppy back even if it's six years old! You need to have a contract with them to get the puppy spade or neutered. Your boy is gorgeous, but you have no history on him, this is not good. It may be possible with a lot of money to do a genetic map on him, but it is expensive.

Someone else said you're doing this for the wrong reason, I have to agree. You're heart maybe in the right place, but in this matter your head should be the dominant. The only reason to breed is to improve the breed, you can't do that with an unknown blood line. Also consider that your girl could be have serious health risks have puppies. Even if she is healthy to start and has all the care, the stress of having the puppies can be serious.

I know you were hoping for positive information, not a lot of nay saying but on this list we are all overwhelmed with all the chows in shelters that are put down every day.
Victory, Darkwind, (our angel), Firesong, and Dreamdancer
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Post by sixchows » Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:28 pm

Well Having had 6 at one time and now being down to 5 I'd like to add a few things.

If you haven't read it yet go read my intro thread. We bought Nala a purebred (as far as we could tell as her parents were but didn't have papers) and she was a great dog.

Found OJ. Big boned, huge head, carries himself with the gait of a show dog. Looks to be a purebred and expensive. Was a real nasty dog! He was a little less than a year old when we found him according to the vet. We knew he should never be bred.

They mated on their own as we weren't paying attention to cycles with my parents being in and out of hospitals and rehab centers.

The birth went well I guess as we weren't there to see it but the only evidence of a birth taking place were the 4 pups we found when we came home that night.

Each pup is different. At an early age you won't be able to tell what they will be when they grow. Check the pics I posted. Zim was the runt of the litter! He couldn't even find a nipple. We had to pick him and place him in the right spot. Grew up to be the cutest freindliest most lovable dog I have ever owned.
Xena, well she almost didn't make it and we were surprised Nala didn't kill her out of instinct since she was sick. She too is a great dog. She is however much more aggressive than Zim.
Zeus was a very aggressive pup who with much socializing is now controllable with one of us present. On his own, he almost has his father's aggression.
Koko is a bit high strung. She's cute and lovable and really enjoys attention but I know she would be the first to bite someone outside the family.
We keep all these dogs as "pairs". Once the pups got to be a few months old all hell broke loose! The boys fought each other visciously! Standing on their hind legs and fighting like bears! The girls were no better! The only parent who could be with the pups was Nala. Oj given the chance would have fought them when he was younger. Now he is a little fearful of them as he knows the males would fight him! OJ is never allowed anywhere near them.
I know I'm rambling here, but the point I'm trying to make is each pup will have a different personality. None of them will be a copy of either parent. They will all have a trait of their parents. These may show up as the best of both like Zim or the worst of both. You won't know what they will be when you are placing them and even your family members aren't going to put up with a dog that bites family, friends, or their children. So you say OK I'll take them back. So then what? What makes you think they will get along after being seperated? They most likely would not have gotten along if raised together. Believe me, we love each of our chows and they are special in their own way but it is a full time job. No way we would ever let it happen again. The males have been neutered as pups and OJ is never anywhere them. The new owners may not even contact you in the event they want to get rid of the dog. Some may just take off the collar and kick it out, like may have been done to OJ. Some may be so angry with you for giving them a dog like this that you would be the last person they would give it back to out of fear you may breed this one.
Take it from someone who lives this every day. Enjoy the chows you have. Devote all the time you can afford them and when they are no longer with you, search out a reputable breeder and find your next "perfect" chow or chows.
We will probably always have chows as they are very special to us. But this is the end of this line. Next time, when all these have passed, we will find a breeder and get another pair who will be fixed.

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Post by Mandy » Sat Jan 21, 2006 9:05 pm

sixchows

I just wanted to say that I appreciate your candor. When I read your first message I was curious to see if you would post on this thread. I find it fascinating to see the opinions of people on all sides of the discussion.
Thank you for posting your thoughts.

Mandy

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Post by ngraham » Sat Jan 21, 2006 9:41 pm

I agree with sixchows and appreciate him telling it like it is from the other side of the debate. There isn't one of us who don't understand you wanting to have an heir to your male. But there are just way too many chows being put to death day after day, month after month, year after year, because people have adopted an adorable looking chow puppy BEFORE they took the time to educate themselves. And once that adorable looking chow puppy grows into an uncontrolable adult because the owners thought they had adopted a dog and were uneducated, then it's the chow who pays for it... and all too many of them pay for it with their lives. It's just not fair. Both my chows came from a back yard breeder. I was very lucky with my Sasha... in all ways, she was the exception to the rule as far as chows go. But it hasn't been that way with Koda. he has come a long way, but temprement wise, he is extremely timid and I know that as long as he is alive, I am not ever going to be able to trust him 100% around anyone but Amber and I. I can't say for sure whether or not his timidity is the result of his breeding or something happening to him before my kids bought him for me, or a combination of the 2, but I also know that because he is the way he is, he would never be acceptable for breeding. He also came to me with a belly button hernia and after researching that on the web I learned that belly button hernias are usually hereditary. Breeding needs to be done by someone who has taken the time to research the breed and who wants to better the breed, not just to produce an heir to a special pet. We all love our babies and would love to have them or a part of them around forever. But even a professional breeder can't guarantee a good temprement or freedom from things like belly button hernias, entropian, or hip dysplasia as hard as they try. Professional breeders take the time and the finances to do things the right way, and still things can go wrong. And again, it's the chow puppies (and possibly the chow mommy) who pay. Please think about this before you try to mate your two.
Nancy and Tai

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Re:

Post by Tier » Sat Jan 25, 2020 1:20 pm

carolyn dewrance wrote:
Sat Jan 14, 2006 3:00 am
I have done artificial insemination on all my chows, and they are all registered chows, so have always had good hoes waiting for them you may once in a life time get a chow to mate normaly, if you want I will send you a private email to tell you how it is done, only takes about three minutes and I have always been successful with no retard chows in the litters. I have been doing AI for 30 years.
Carolyn
Hi, I'm trying to breed my chow and was considering artificial insemination. Can you provide me with more info on how the process works?

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