Humane Society??

threedogjeep · Post by **threedogjeep** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:28 am

Do you guys support the Humane Society? ASPCA? various rescues? Where should the money go????

Dogdad · Post by **Dogdad** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:50 am

I support:
Wisconsin Cocker rescue- I got Aldo from them
Our local humane society - a non-kill shelter ( I know no shelter is really no Kill)
I gave 100.00 extra to Chow Chow rescue of the Sierra Foot Hills and also Gave 50.00 extra to the wisconsin Rescue where I got Maxwell from.

In the future since this was big year in dog adoptions I think I will donate to
the local humane society
Chow chow rescue of the Sierra foot hill
Cocker rescue of Wisconsin

I save my free bag of dog food coupons from Petco and donate them to the local humane society along with toys, old blankets, towels and cleaner. The others are just money.
I think do nating time is really important but I can't do it. I would have more dogs than the humane society

Jeff&Peks · Post by **Jeff&Peks** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:45 am

I don't support the shelters, thats like supporting death and buying euthanizing drugs.

But I do support and donate and buy stuf from these two.

Aniamal Legal defense fund

http://www.aldf.org/

Animal Asia.

http://www.animalsasia.org/

I don't know was it Here's my origenal post, it appears i was being badgered, was that the word.

People want to talk about reality fine with me, just take what reality has to offer or quit complining and preaching.

Victory · Post by **Victory** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:07 am

I only support Best Friends Animal Sanctuary because they are TRULY non-kill, they take and keep animals, (not just dogs and cats) that are too old, sick, bad tempered etc and take care of them until they are ready to cross the bridge naturally.

there is a farm here that does the same for hooved animals which I would love to donate time to, and a bit of cash, which I will once I have extra cash again. As far as food etc is concerned I would rather donate that to a person who needs the help caring for their animal(s) temporarily than a shelter that says they are non-kill but that is only when the dog or cat is passive and perfect, and small.

Dogdad · Post by **Dogdad** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:18 am

Jeff&Peks wrote:I don't support the shelters, thats like supporting death and buying euthanizing drugs.

To a point you are right, but they do save many animals, They are there for the animals who are involved in animal abuse cases, treat them, feed them. They are there to screen prospective pet owners and insist on nuetering or spaying. It isn't a perfect system by any means BUT if they weren't there more animals would end up dead and be homeless. Nothing in this world is perfect but I think by not supporting them because of that reason, you are not solving the problem, you are contributing to it. THe reason why they have to euthanize so many animals is because they don't have the money, resources to care for all the animals. You know what vet bills are like, now imagine it for 50 to 100+ animals, food, cleaning supplies. It is really economic. If they had the money, they could expand, could keep animals longer. I really doubt if anyone who works for a humane society gets paid big bucks, I am sure at one time they all began as caring people but faced with their choices on a daily basis, seeing innocent animals having to be killed because of money with no reprieve, It wouldn't take long before any of us would get jaded, harded to reality. Perhaps I am being too idealistic, but bashing them while doing nothing to help our imo is just talk, not the walk. Supporting the causes you support is admirable but instead of supporting international dog groups, I prefer to support ours. This is my personal opinion and I am not claiming to be better than anyone else. I am not trying to bash anyone, We all have different perspectives and experiences.
David

Post by **Auddymay** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:23 am

I give to a local organization called Noah's Project.

Victory · Post by **Victory** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:30 am

I fully understand the cost per animal thing. But what I object most strongly too is the stupid behavioral tests that they subject the animals to, this is especially true of the dogs, anyone wth any idea about real animal behavior knows you don't a hungry frightened, possibly abused dog, place it in a new and very stressful situation, (and many dogs do very, very poorly in shelters because of the number of dogs around them, the noise etc) and then see if the dog is food aggressive!

When I adopted Ming, he came from his first and only owner's home to mine. I took his leash off and then he refused to come near me. In fact he backed away and growled at me. I backed up and went out to get some shopping done leaving him alone for about 20minutes. When I came home I called him and he came to me. I say this just to illustrate how a chow has to be treated in a new situation. Most chows in particular the males are pts immeadately even if there is room in the shelter. No one wants to put forth the effort it takes to work with them. Personally I would love to see this change and then they might get my dollars and support.

threedogjeep · Post by **threedogjeep** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:05 am

I thought this was interesting

Permission to cross post!

The Humane Society of the United States has mounted a huge campaign to
raise money to care for the dogs rescued from Michael Vick's dogfighting
ring. The plea comes complete with a heartbreaking picture of one of the injured
dogs. (Not surprisingly, studies have shown that people donate more when
shown a picture of or told a story about a single animal needing help.
HSUS is very clever at fundraising. The Humane Society of the United States does not give any money to the local Humane Society that helps dogs in your area.

1) There is a disclaimer in fine print at the bottom of the form which
says your donation may be used for other HSUS programs and may not be
used to help the dog fight victims.

2) There has been no accounting for the nearly $20 million HSUS raised
for the Katrina dogs and cats. The organization is under investigation
by the Louisiana Attorney General for their handling of that situation.
_http://tinyurl. http://tin_ (http://tinyurl. com/25avhp)

3) HSUS has NO shelter. It is a corporate office building in Washington, DC.
It is supposedly "overseeing" the care of the dogs that were seized from
Vick's house, but we don't know where the animals are, Will the shelter
actually providing their care receive all the donations this campaign
generates?

4) There is no reason to believe that your contributions will go to help
the dogs seized from Michael Vick or any other dogs or cats. HSUS spends
most of its money on legislative efforts to make dog breeding impossible
and pet ownership more difficult, more expensive, and more dangerous.

5) HSUS claims its servers crashed from the response to their first
appeal for money for these dogs, yet they are still out there beating
the drum for more money, still claiming more is needed for the Vick
dogs.

And if you are still considering writing that check, read the following
quotes from Wayne Pacelle, president of HSUS

"I don't have a hands-on fondness for animals. To this day I don't feel
bonded to any non-human animal. I like them and I pet them and I'm kind
to them, but there is no special bond between me and other animals.
Quoted in Bloodties: Nature, Culture and the Hunt by Ted Kerasote, 1993,
p. 251.

"We have no problem with the extinction of domestic animals. They are
creations of human selective breeding." Quoted in Animal People, May,
1993

When asked if he envisioned a future without pets: "If I had my
personal view, perhaps that might take hold. In fact, I don't want to
see another dog or cat born. Wayne Pacelle quoted in Bloodties: Nature, Culture and the Hunt by Ted Kerasote, 1993, p. 266.

Dogdad · Post by **Dogdad** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:35 am

Very interesting, Figures doesn't it. I am sure alot of the money has disappeared from Katrina pet relief much like it has for hud and relief for the non pet victims. Another thing that kind of bothers me, I am being really opinionated, I do not trust the Chinese govenrnment, how could anyone trust that the money is going where it is supposed to. The situation in China is appalling but until the culture changes, I don't think the killings will stop, they are being allowed by the society. As it becomes more affluent, things will change, much like it has in the US. Some Chinese are protesting but there needs to be more. In the US we still have a long way to go, but I guess in comparrison to 100 years ago, there has been progress made.

David

AngelsMom · Post by **AngelsMom** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:47 am

RIGHT ON.

I support the MSPCA, The Wolf Fund (our wild furkids!!), and the ASPCA every so often....

Dogdad wrote:
Jeff&Peks wrote:I don't support the shelters, thats like supporting death and buying euthanizing drugs.

To a point you are right, but they do save many animals, They are there for the animals who are involved in animal abuse cases, treat them, feed them. They are there to screen prospective pet owners and insist on nuetering or spaying. It isn't a perfect system by any means BUT if they weren't there more animals would end up dead and be homeless. Nothing in this world is perfect but I think by not supporting them because of that reason, you are not solving the problem, you are contributing to it. THe reason why they have to euthanize so many animals is because they don't have the money, resources to care for all the animals. You know what vet bills are like, now imagine it for 50 to 100+ animals, food, cleaning supplies. It is really economic. If they had the money, they could expand, could keep animals longer. I really doubt if anyone who works for a humane society gets paid big bucks, I am sure at one time they all began as caring people but faced with their choices on a daily basis, seeing innocent animals having to be killed because of money with no reprieve, It wouldn't take long before any of us would get jaded, harded to reality. Perhaps I am being too idealistic, but bashing them while doing nothing to help our imo is just talk, not the walk. Supporting the causes you support is admirable but instead of supporting international dog groups, I prefer to support ours. This is my personal opinion and I am not claiming to be better than anyone else. I am not trying to bash anyone, We all have different perspectives and experiences.
David

AngelsMom · Post by **AngelsMom** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:51 am

When asked if he envisioned a future without pets: "If I had my
personal view, perhaps that might take hold. In fact, I don't want to
see another dog or cat born. Wayne Pacelle quoted in Bloodties: Nature, Culture and the Hunt by Ted Kerasote, 1993, p. 266.[/quote]

I'm curious about the context of this article... I wonder if he is referring to the fact that SO, SO many pets are born into this world with no where to go.... they grow up in shelters/on the streets/in abusive or neglectful families.... Maybe he was referring to this fact and trying to show that he wants people to ADOPT animals, not use backyard breeders or puppy mills???

sit_by_the_beach · Post by **sit_by_the_beach** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:28 am

Our a privately run Toronto Humane Society is a no kill shelter. They have dog trainers on staff to retrain damaged dogs. At the moment there are 700 cats, the mild winter contributed to the huge number of babies. Hundreds of dogs, many pits from across the US and la belle Quebec are housed. The THS is one of the largest privately run animal shelter in north america. Please, support, volunteer. They need animal petters, strokers for the many rabbits, cats. They need dog walkers for evenings, nights.
http://www.torontohumanesociety.com/adopt/default.asp

Jeff&Peks · Post by **Jeff&Peks** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:24 am

Dogdad wrote:
Jeff&Peks wrote:I don't support the shelters, thats like supporting death and buying euthanizing drugs.

To a point you are right, but they do save many animals, They are there for the animals who are involved in animal abuse cases, treat them, feed them. They are there to screen prospective pet owners and insist on nuetering or spaying. It isn't a perfect system by any means BUT if they weren't there more animals would end up dead and be homeless. Nothing in this world is perfect but I think by not supporting them because of that reason, you are not solving the problem, you are contributing to it. THe reason why they have to euthanize so many animals is because they don't have the money, resources to care for all the animals. You know what vet bills are like, now imagine it for 50 to 100+ animals, food, cleaning supplies. It is really economic. If they had the money, they could expand, could keep animals longer. I really doubt if anyone who works for a humane society gets paid big bucks, I am sure at one time they all began as caring people but faced with their choices on a daily basis, seeing innocent animals having to be killed because of money with no reprieve, It wouldn't take long before any of us would get jaded, harded to reality. Perhaps I am being too idealistic, but bashing them while doing nothing to help our imo is just talk, not the walk. Supporting the causes you support is admirable but instead of supporting international dog groups, I prefer to support ours. This is my personal opinion and I am not claiming to be better than anyone else. I am not trying to bash anyone, We all have different perspectives and experiences.
David

By going down to a local shelter and adopting a few dogs does not mean one is doing the walk or solving anything but it does make for great website conversation. For every one dog you save twenty more have been put to death the same day you walked in. There are millions of ways of supporting animals, adopting a dog from a shelter may save one dog which is good but the name of the game donating to something that is trying to save them all. There is no reason or excuse to be euthanizing and no way would I give a dime to it. If New York can try to pass a bill for a no kill state then tullyville Wisconsin and every other town, city and state can stop killing.

I may not adopt another dog but I go to extremes if I find a Chow in my area or a Chow i can possibly help, I will put any Chow, mine or someone else's before my bank account or eating any day, but I will never give a cent to anyone or to any organization that hides behind killing animals and say there is no other way that they are doing a good deed.

Like Victory says, That temperment test has got to go, but why is it there? it gives them something to hide behind so they have a reason to kill and still look good. Your donations are going for clean, well lit buildings and pay checks to the people that greet you with a smile then kill a few more dogs before they go home.

By the way The Animal defense fund is based in the US, Bay area I believe, they are the ones that go after abusers and illegal breeders and fight the courts to make sure Animal abuser and breeders get what they deserve. Go to their site, Michael Vick is all over the site along with hundreds of other animal abuse cases they are working on. Animal defense fund are Lawyers fighting for animal rights, if anyone sould get donations it's them.

My donations and support of Animal Asia is for animals that live in a hell beyond anything any of you could ever imagine. You small town folk need to visit the real world some day.

If all of you that donate to shelters are so quick with the cash, instead donate it to the local animal hospitols to help cover the cost of dogs that have to die becouse the owners can't offord cancer treaments or worse an ear infection. Thats where my Lotto winnings will go if I ever win, Free care animals hospitols across the US. Sorry but I have to start with Chows come first.

Dogdad · Post by **Dogdad** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:38 pm

Jeff ,I apprecite your honest opinion and gave mine.I know deep down, you are a caring guy for animals and chows in particular, your endless search for Jack and your caring shines through. However you are a bit misguided in some of your statements. Here are some facts. I grew up in San Diego, Lived in Mexico City for a year, Tokyo,and Newfoundland, Traveled to many countries in Central America and in Europe. I have seen and experienced poverty. Perhaps I live in "Tueyville" but am not a native. The world is not LA. Wisconsin is not New York, It is a farming state, Where killing animals is a way of life, Chances are if you have every eaten any meat or had milk or cheese, or vegtables, It came from a farm. I wasn't trying to insult you as your post obviously was trying to do. You keep on saying you don't want to offend yet you are very opinionated and very intolerante of anyone elses opinion. It sounds like perhaps you are a native of Tueyville or at least a memeber of the old boys club. I am not an original member here but The more I read your posts, the more I get the impression that you enjoy insulting people who have the nerve not to agree with everything you say. Needless to say, I stand by my words.

David

Jeff&Peks · Post by **Jeff&Peks** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:08 pm

Again as always, who responded to who, You used me and my post to preach your views. The question was who donate's to what, no one ask if it was in the US and for what reasons. I know you think shelters are the greated thing but you never see me using your post to say how wonderful I am. I don't see you being metioned anywhere in my origenal post. Actually sence your first outburst of assult have you ever seen me respond to any of your post. I try to stay away from the sensitive ones.

If your going to dish it out be prepared to get it back and quit jumping on the, oh my I've been offended garbage all the time. I found your post to be just as offensive to me as you always find mine to be that never have anything to do with you in the first place. I believe in your Classroom your response to my post would have been considered inappropriate behavior.

Some of you people are way to sensitive to be out in public. If someone on an internet forum that you will never meet in your life can control your emotions and your life by saying something that offends you to the point of getting upset or leaving a site, there has to be something lacking in your personal life.

Dogdad · Post by **Dogdad** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:07 pm

Jeff I am sorry you see it that way. I am not dropping out, We disagree, we perhaps misunderstood eachother. You and I both have opinions, if you feel I bashed you to make myself look better than so be it. Just like I feel you implied that I was an ignornant simpleton from the sticks. I simply expressed my opinion on the flaws in your logic, much like you freely do. I guess if you want to continue this discusion please feel free to pm me. I imagine this is similar to the other disagreements we have had and it will blow over.
My apologies to everyone for changing this thread into a shameless self promotion on how much better I am than Jeff.

David

IliamnasQuest · Post by **IliamnasQuest** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:43 pm

Go, David, go!!

In my opinion, some people live in a fantasy land, some people understand reality. It's an unfortunate side of reality that dogs and cats have to be euthanized because of irresponsible breeders and pet owners who fail to spay and neuter their pets. It seems that some people blithely assume that those shelters that euthanize do it because they just plain like killing animals. That couldn't be farther from the truth for most shelters.

I worked for the vet that had the contract with the local animal shelter .. every week he had to go and euthanize animals that were abandoned or dropped off by uncaring people. I helped hold some of these animals and I can tell you, the pain was obvious in everyone involed - the director of the animal shelter, the vet doing the euthanasia, and those of us helping. I will never assume that euthanasia is done lightly by people working in a shelter .. people become hardened at times in order to protect their own sanity, but I'd say it's rare to find anyone who isn't saddened by it.

I've seen animals come in who were in such bad condition that death was a kinder alternative. I've seen shelter workers work overtime, taking dogs and cats to their own homes because the shelters are so over-populated that there just isn't ROOM anymore. Is it better to leave pets out on the street to starve or freeze or get hit by a car or mutilated by another animal? Surely any sane human could see that humane euthanasia is more kind?

The shelter here is a kill shelter, but they do everything they can to not kill the animals that come to them. The woman who is now the head honcho is a behaviorist from England. She doesn't use the silly temperament tests. She uses the bay where the trucks are parked to do puppy socialization and assessment, and has a "dog-walk" program so that the dogs can get out and be walked by members of the community. She even made little vests for the dogs that say "ADOPT ME" and she's had great success in getting people to adopt that way. While euthanasia is sometimes inevitable at the shelter, the numbers are way down.

For every one dog that someone adopts, that's one more that won't be euthanized - and that is DEFINITELY "walking the walk" AND "talking the talk". An occasional donation to an organization is nothing compared to actually taking in dogs and feeding, loving and supplying veterinary care to them on a regular basis. You'd have to supply several hundred dollars to an organization every year to match just one adoption. I seriously doubt most people do that.

On the original topic .. I don't have specific organizations I donate to. When I can I send money to various chow organizations. I also organized and helped raise more than $2000 for a rescued dog this past year. I've donated time both in hand's-on assistance at shelters and in supplying behavioral and training advice to people who have newly adopted dogs with problems. We do what we can do and not everyone will do the same thing.

As far as the HSUS goes, I have long believed they are extremely corrupt. Their long-term goal (along with PETA) is to end the ownership and use of ALL animals. The quote about not wanting to see another cat or dog born goes right back to the idea that pet ownership should end (as should eating meat, etc.). They understand the concept of marketing and manage to pull millions of dollars from unsuspecting and well-meaning pet lovers, but I do think the reality is that they're completely corrupt and are in cahoots with PETA.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska

Jeff&Peks · Post by **Jeff&Peks** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:45 pm

Yep you two go, Fantasy land is scary enough Melanie I don't need to know your real world.

All this becouse i give to Animal aisa, Why arn't you two down at the shelters instead wasting your time with why I don't give to sheters. Someone isn't doing any walking but sure sounds like alot of talking.

20 years in a cage so someone can have *Censored Word*.

This torture will make the meat tastier

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j37/J ... res-03.jpg" border="0" alt="Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket"></a>

More tasty meat

Yep fantasyland, Your right what else could it be.

threedogjeep · Post by **threedogjeep** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:23 pm

Was that necessary to answer the OP?

sit_by_the_beach · Post by **sit_by_the_beach** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:31 pm

Many people give according to their ability, capability. The THS has 700 cats in their shelter. It shouldn't be difficult for the 5 million ppl who live in this area to adopt all 700. Then the THS would no longer need funding.
But that's a pipedream, will never happen. Never mind the hundreds of dogs. Money isn't the end-all. Dog walkers volunteer their precious time, time is money.
Karin

Jeff&Peks · Post by **Jeff&Peks** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:55 pm

Jeff&Peks wrote:I don't support the shelters, thats like supporting death and buying euthanizing drugs.

But I do support and donate and buy stuf from these two.

Aniamal Legal defense fund

http://www.aldf.org/

Animal Asia.

http://www.animalsasia.org/

I don't know was it, Here's my origenal post. it appears i was being badgered, was that the word.

People want to talk about reality fine with me, just take what reality has to offer or quit complining and preaching.

Not you threedogjeep, just the preachers

Dogdad · Post by **Dogdad** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:57 pm

And here is mine

To a point you are right, but they do save many animals

and

Supporting the causes you support is admirable but instead of supporting international dog groups, I prefer to support ours. This is my personal opinion and I am not claiming to be better than anyone else. I am not trying to bash anyone, We all have different perspectives and experiences.
David

your reply

If New York can try to pass a bill for a no kill state then tullyville Wisconsin and every other town, city and state can stop killing.

If you took it as an attack Jeff then you will understand how The Tueyville comment was also an attack. Lets stop this, it is pointless. 3 dog Jeep asked for opinions, we gave ours in a non-flatering way. I apologize to everyone.

Please lets get back on topic. Jeff pm me if you have something to say

David

Jeff&Peks · Post by **Jeff&Peks** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:58 pm

yeah really, give it up

sit_by_the_beach · Post by **sit_by_the_beach** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:58 am

Jeff, nobody's preaching, we're here to voice our opinion. Boring world if we all had the same opinion.
Karin

threedogjeep · Post by **threedogjeep** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:28 am

As an aside...Karin I LOVE your banner...little feetsies thre!! Soooo cute!!

On topic, I won't be asking for opinioins again soon