Breeder: Rhenegade Chows

RHENEGADE CHOWS · Post by **RHENEGADE CHOWS** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:34 am

TJordan wrote:I don't think personal attacks will help your cause on bit!

Oh I can be attacked and its ok is it? Didn't see you saying that to anyone else.

TJordan · Post by **TJordan** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:35 am

I think others have been stating facts. Facts that you admit to, so no they are not attacks!!

cheriekynb · Post by **cheriekynb** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:35 am

RHENEGADE CHOWS wrote:
Judy Fox wrote:Good Grief - I have been in the Crown Court all day - I come home and find this is still rampaging on.
Hasn't everybody got bored yet!
Shouldn't you be watching Eastenders? Go have your tea and large spoonful of marmite, and come back in a few hours.

LOL -

- I say, on with the debate! So much info, so many opinions, a thread that's full of passion!

redangie24 · Post by **redangie24** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:40 am

RHENEGADE CHOWS wrote:Shouldn't you be watching Eastenders? Go have your tea and large spoonful of marmite, and come back in a few hours.

Leave Judy alone. If you have a problem with us that is fine but leave her alone. She is a good person who just does not like to see people bicker. So stop it now.

Rogansmommy · Post by **Rogansmommy** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:51 am

RHENEGADE CHOWS wrote:
Judy Fox wrote:Good Grief - I have been in the Crown Court all day - I come home and find this is still rampaging on.
Hasn't everybody got bored yet!
Shouldn't you be watching Eastenders? Go have your tea and large spoonful of marmite, and come back in a few hours.

Do not be attacking Judy. She has more love of this breed and understanding than you could ever possibly hope to attain.

AND your complaint about being attacked has no grounding. No one here is attacking you for WHO you are. It's a WHAT you do thing; we find your attempts at justifying your BYB behavior reprehensible.

RHENEGADE CHOWS · Post by **RHENEGADE CHOWS** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:52 am

cheriekynb wrote:
RHENEGADE CHOWS wrote:
Judy Fox wrote:Good Grief - I have been in the Crown Court all day - I come home and find this is still rampaging on.
Hasn't everybody got bored yet!
Shouldn't you be watching Eastenders? Go have your tea and large spoonful of marmite, and come back in a few hours.
LOL - - I say, on with the debate! So much info, so many opinions, a thread that's full of passion!

yes well, maybe it wasn't very nice to wish her to have a mouthful of marmite, but her sarcasm, and disrespect, however cheekily, indirect wasn't warranted.

kitcatak · Post by **kitcatak** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:52 am

Did everyone lose their sense of humor around here? I think Renegade meant that as a joke. The world isn't going to end over anything in this post or on this board for that matter. The fate of chows is also not going to be decided here. We are all adults (I hope) and should be able to discuss these things without getting nasty. Judy is a great person, I have read her posts for a few years now. Her comments weren't meant to offend and neither were Renegades. Let's lighten up a little.

Tracy

RHENEGADE CHOWS · Post by **RHENEGADE CHOWS** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:59 am

Do not be attacking Judy. She has more love of this breed and understanding than you could ever possibly hope to attain.

AND your complaint about being attacked has no grounding. No one here is attacking you for WHO you are. It's a WHAT you do thing; we find your attempts at justifying your BYB behavior reprehensible.[/quote]

OH please. Now we are going to turn this into a I'm attacking Judy. I was joking with Judy in a really droll Brit way. She knows what Eastenders is, and marmite, and if you do to then you'd know it wasn't attacking. It was a clear volley on a comment so get over it.

Oh wait, knew thread... Rhenegade Attacks Judy. You all just can't stick to the topic can you, and I make any comments on any made to me, WHICH I WILL, then some of you will have a cow. I think Judy is a big girl and can hold her own. And DONT YOU EVER question MY LOVE for the breed. Its what brought me to this forum in the first place looking to help the breed. God forbid I made mistakes. I guess you are soooo perfect yes. Again, one last reminder, I didnt hide them, I didn't have a hidden agenda. SO this cut throat attempt to crucify me for them is what is really reprehencable.
And the constant attempts to refocus.

cheriekynb · Post by **cheriekynb** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:07 am

kitcatak wrote:Did everyone lose their sense of humor around here? I think Renegade meant that as a joke. The world isn't going to end over anything in this post or on this board for that matter. The fate of chows is also not going to be decided here. We are all adults (I hope) and should be able to discuss these things without getting nasty. Judy is a great person, I have read her posts for a few years now. Her comments weren't meant to offend and neither were Renegades. Let's lighten up a little.

Tracy

The love and passion we Chow people have is absolutely amazing!

TJordan · Post by **TJordan** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:13 am

I actually agree with you in theory, Having a healthy chow. Everyone here would support that. The problem is that you promoting a healty chow without health checks. So it is a double standard. If you were doing everything you could to ensure the proper health (and were able to show proof of health) you wouldn't be getting these comments. People on here are very passoniate about their chows. So basically the proof is in the puddin'. Bottom line.

RHENEGADE CHOWS · Post by **RHENEGADE CHOWS** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:13 am

kitcatak wrote:Did everyone lose their sense of humor around here? I think Renegade meant that as a joke. The world isn't going to end over anything in this post or on this board for that matter. The fate of chows is also not going to be decided here. We are all adults (I hope) and should be able to discuss these things without getting nasty. Judy is a great person, I have read her posts for a few years now. Her comments weren't meant to offend and neither were Renegades. Let's lighten up a little.

Tracy

No Tracy its because its from me.. see she and everyone else can say whatever the bloody well like and its fine and dandy, and I say something in return and they are ready to pounce...See I bring something really important in here, and all anyone wants to focus on is the fact that there were 2 unintentional breedings and that I did intend on one. They can't even agree to disagree long enough to see what it is I came here for...It sure wasn't for this &^%$.
GET OVER THE BREEDINGS. I FOUND RESPONSIBLE HOMES, I STAY IN CONTACT WITH THE OWNERS, THEY WILL NEVER END UP A POUND. GET OVER IT. THIS NEXT LITTER, IT TOO ALREADY HAS PARENTS, GET OVER IT. IF ANYONE HAS STILL LOST THE CONCEPT OF WHY I POSTED, THEN GO BACK AND LOOK. And while I am at it, changing the thread name to RHENEGADE CHOWS:BREEDER, OR WHICHEVER WAY it is, wasn't exactly nice either. Maybe I entered the wrong thread as it said "breeder" I though the info I had would be good for the "other breeders." Maybe I should have gone to the health forum. who knows. For whatever reason its just really bleep mean at this point to keep harping about it. And to not be able to see past it and to what I am really trying to do HERE... THIS place. YOU ALL THINK THIS IS FUN? I have made myself sick. Physically. I knew it wouldnt be easy, but Damn. I never expected to be attacked like this especially for admitting a mistake. You'd think I killed someone with my bare hands, or even worse threw a litter of puppys away in a trash can, or sent them off to a death sentence. And yes I have recieved some really nice PM's from people and thanks so much to those people. But the rest of you, seriously, what do I have to ask for your forgiveness for something I COULD NOT AVOID? Ok... whole heartedly, I am sorry and please forgive me. I am trying to correct my mistakes. I promise beyond a shadow of a doubt to get any chows fully CERTIFIED free of any HIP ELBOW or PATELLA problems. To have thier eyes CERF'd, and theier thryroids certified free of problems. I have already said that before. I did not breed Latte, and had I really been some horrible BYB MILLER as you think I would have. Now for the last time, I'm sorry, please see what I am trying to do. What do you want to hear you all have had me in tears, because I am so sincere, and put my heart in this and said everything 100% and even shared personal family issues (which caused an argument with my husband I must add) just to show you how sincere I am. So ok.. I'm asking for forgiveness and to not be treated so horribly.

sit_by_the_beach · Post by **sit_by_the_beach** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:14 am

Rhene. you go to England, leave your babies with a neighbour? That would be like leaving for England and leave a bunch of 14 year old human teens behind. Surprise, when you get back, who'd be at fault? The babysitting neighbour? I looked at your website, your females are too young. Healthchecks after the fact? Don't bother to reply, I am very opinionated and wouldn't change my mind about things,

Karin

RHENEGADE CHOWS · Post by **RHENEGADE CHOWS** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:15 am

TJordan wrote:I actually agree with you in theory, Having a healthy chow. Everyone here would support that. The problem is that you promoting a healty chow without health checks. So it is a double standard. If you were doing everything you could to ensure the proper health (and were able to show proof of health) you wouldn't be getting these comments. People on here are very passoniate about their chows. So basically the proof is in the puddin'. Bottom line.

I have health checked my chows. you obviously haven't read that part. they just haven't had thier certifications yet.
2 of my 5 have, and there is another cert being done tomorrow morning. I'll be sure to let everyone know. It's my AKC boy with Ch's behind him. I can't say I am totally optimistic.
I guess asking for well wishing here is mute.

RHENEGADE CHOWS · Post by **RHENEGADE CHOWS** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:17 am

sit_by_the_beach wrote:Rhene. you go to England, leave your babies with a neighbour? That would be like leaving for England and leave a bunch of 14 year old human teens behind. Surprise, when you get back, who'd be at fault? The babysitting neighbour? I looked at your website, your females are too young. Don't bother to reply, I am very opinonated and wouldn't change my mind about things,

Karin

Karin...I have 2 runs, 2 100sq ft runs with shelters. They stayed at my home, on my property in thier runs. My neighbors took Bliss out of his Run and put him in with Belle. Now go ahead... still fault me. I am sure you will.

sit_by_the_beach · Post by **sit_by_the_beach** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:18 am

I wish you well, for the puppies' sakes.

Karin

TJordan · Post by **TJordan** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:24 am

All of your comments seem so inflamitory. The bottom line is, people want breeders to be responsible. You have admitted you have had some not so responsible things happen. But you can't always have it both ways. Either you are responsible or you are not. That is why people feel like you are double talking.
I am not a breeder clearly, and have no knowledge of breeding, I am just telling you why people have been not with you in this debate.

Red Dragon · Post by **Red Dragon** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:24 am

Carla, the problem here is you have no merit to discuss the "Topic" as you put it. You have not enough done enough homework to even be asking questions to a reputable breeder at this point. You say you are going to outcross only because you want to get back to the "True" type of Chow, yet you don't even know the basics about breeding in the wild apparently, packs are inbred, and only outcross when the male in the pack is challenged and defeated by a stronger male from another pack, or a male that he produced, but then you are right back at inbreeding. You should really try cracking open some books before you spew all of this crap out of your mouth.

j72 · Post by **j72** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:24 am

Sit by the beach... do you ever go on vacation? I do. My sister sure did.
Do you take your dogs with you on every vacation you go on? I don't. I make sure they are in responsible hands of people that love them. As did my sister... but guess what... stuff still happens.
And if that "stuff" hadn't happened I wouldn't have my Simon. So I guess I'm sure glad it DID!

RHENEGADE CHOWS · Post by **RHENEGADE CHOWS** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:28 am

sit_by_the_beach wrote:I wish you well, for the puppies' sakes.

Karin

Thank you.

However Micah is just a wee puppy. He isn't a sire to any puppies. But thanks. He'll be 5 months old Saturday.

Rogansmommy · Post by **Rogansmommy** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:31 am

Cathy - it's amazing that you go after my post when I defend Judy.

You still haven't addressed my ON TOPIC reasons for wanting health screenings for all bred dogs though. In case you missed it, it's on page ONE.

sit_by_the_beach · Post by **sit_by_the_beach** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:38 am

j72 wrote:Sit by the beach... do you ever go on vacation? I do. My sister sure did.
Do you take your dogs with you on every vacation you go on? I don't. I make sure they are in responsible hands of people that love them. As did my sister... but guess what... stuff still happens.
And if that "stuff" hadn't happened I wouldn't have my Simon. So I guess I'm sure glad it DID!

I go on vacation. The cottage. Chow proof.

I am older and if I go to the hospital for a couple of days, my son lets my chow in the backyard, fenced. I am planning to go to SF later on this year, my chow is coming with me.
Karin

Jeff&Peks · Post by **Jeff&Peks** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:41 am

"Do you take your dogs with you on every vacation you go on? I don't."

I do, I take my Chow on every vacation I go on. She's been in the finist hotels, sleezy motels (for Skiiing) and the worst of tents, no problem. I don't trust anyone with my Chow. I would never take the chance "stuff happens" with my Chow.

RHENEGADE CHOWS · Post by **RHENEGADE CHOWS** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:42 am

j72 wrote:Sit by the beach... do you ever go on vacation? I do. My sister sure did.
Do you take your dogs with you on every vacation you go on? I don't. I make sure they are in responsible hands of people that love them. As did my sister... but guess what... stuff still happens.
And if that "stuff" hadn't happened I wouldn't have my Simon. So I guess I'm sure glad it DID!

You know, not just because all this had me so down, but because I do anyways, I emailed all my puppy parents and let them know what was going on, etc. And the emails that came back just had me crying again. But in happy tears. One of the parents is a pilot, and flys his own plane and flew down and picked up his little Geisha. To see the look on his face was so great. But to get the emails back from him and his girlfriend and see how they are with them, and they constantly email me and thank me. And yes she is getting fixed. It was in her contract. And then there is Jennifer and Bella. They are so special to me. See if I was a professional breeder as its been put I don't think I'd ring up Jennifer and have a good cry. She knows first hand what this breed means to me and what each puppy means to me. Every penny of these puppys has gone back to the puppys. New grooming supplies, brushes, toys, microchips for my crew as they hadn't been chipped yet. A new run to be put up soon. Gravel for thier runs. Which was the wrong gravel and is too small and there is no way I am putting under thier precious feet so it sits in my paved driveway looking pretty stupid. Mount Gravel. So I have to buy more. And there was new toys, and collars, Lattes has rhinestones, and Belles is pink with spikes on it. It fits her personality. And Bliss has his gold and spike one. He loves to give the most gentle hugs and puts his paws on you delicately. He is such a sweet and rare soul. Lets see.. did I mention the scanner? and the dog licenses, thier shots, etc.. everything went back to them. We'd have done it all anyways, but regardless it went back to them. We didnt bank it for a holiday and dance around the room. I raised the price of these puppys upcoming puppies due to the prelims, and the upcoming OFA's. It's still not going to bank a huge profit. I could keep listing the stuff but somehow I think its going to fall on deaf ears. I think Karin was a perfect example and honest, it doesn't matter what truths I say, or what proof I give, everyone has made up thier mind and it is just too late for anyone to be wrong about me. Better to hate me than forgive me. Better to see my faults than what I am trying to offer.

j72 · Post by **j72** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:44 am

And that is great for you... I take my dogs with me whenever I can, but it doesn't mean that people should never go on vacation without them. Especially up here where we have to fly out to the rest of the United States.
I do understand your arguments. In fact I understand where people are coming from in all these posts whether I agree or not, I do understand where they are coming from, but insinuating that you should never leave your dogs with people who will take good care of them when you go out of town for a few days... come on.
Even children sometimes get left with grandparents so mom and dad can get away once in awhile.

cheriekynb · Post by **cheriekynb** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:48 am

Jeff&Peks wrote:"Do you take your dogs with you on every vacation you go on? I don't."

I do, I take my Chow on every vacation I go on. She's been in the finist hotels, sleezy motels (for Skiiing) and the worst of tents, no problem. I don't trust anyone with my Chow. I would never take the chance "stuff happens" with my Chow.

Do I take Sid with me WHERE EVER I go? NOPE. I work 8 hours a day and including commute time.. Sid has to be SOMEWHERE for 9 hours a day. Sid is neutered so I don't HAVE to be afraid of THAT 'stuff' happening, BUT, I do stress that he will be "pepper-sprayed" by a delivery person or a utility person.. WORST fear is that SOMEONE will actually TAKE him! I drop Sid off, every day I work and when I go out with friends, at my parents house. They take GREAT care of my Sid. Call me irrational and paranoid but I didn't put my daughter in child care either. She was with me or my relatives. I treat Sid the same way.

CAMPING!! Summer is almost here! YAY, I wonder if Sid would actually LIKE camping? I KNOW he loves the water! Jet Ski, here I come!! Me and Sid, riding in the Jeep, top down and Jet Ski in tow. LOL What a LIFE!!