Breeder: Rhenegade Chows

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Postby RHENEGADE CHOWS » Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:41 pm

Yep, well Nasty I got, and a lot of good ones too. But as you can see, I had my history there for everyone to see. I didnt hide a thing. If that wasn't showing honesty I don't know what is.

As for Summer.. purple kisses. She and I have had private conversations for which I will NOT discuss, and they were good ones, I feel for her in so many ways. If she wants to post our PM's to and from each other I am all for it. But yes we do know our dogs are from the same breeder. And that same breeder, Bob, wasn't sure that Ember's bit was quite right when I got her, and if it wasn't I was going to spay her. I did want her for her gorgeous color, and if you guys haven't seen my new baby, go look at her. She is SOOOOO cute! As it turned out I told my vet that they could be slightly off. Nope.. they arn't. None of my my chows from him have a poor bite. Poor bites do happen, Even in the "best of bred" chows from time to time, a twisted tooth, a jaw grows more than the other, it happens. It's why those should NEVER be bred. It is quite an underbite. I had not seen the pictures, but as I said, she and I have talked. Summer is a sweet person, she is under a lot of stress right now.
Don't go generalizing that one puppy represents all of his puppys. Mine are proof of that. And I know for a fact that he will take back any puppy.
Ok.. sorry Bob.. I don't mean to out our conversations.. Just recently he got a call from a guy in connecticut who is the friend of one of his puppy parents. They gentleman died, leaving a puppy (folks another reason reason for dogs being in shelters, if you dont have a will that specifies where you dog is to go, where do you think it will go?) They guy found Bobs info and called him. Bob is flying the dog back to him from Connecticut. Don't go putting down someone just because they do NOT believe exactly what you do. It's just not sane. I wish there was a happy medium. There are extremes to everything. People overbreeding, people wanting no breeding, people who don't take care of thier pets, people who dress thier pets... I mean.. seriously...The world is full of extremes, and there are also a bunch of people who are in the middle ground and are responsible, even when they make mistakes they make the best out of it.

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Postby RHENEGADE CHOWS » Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:02 pm

kitcatak wrote:So, in other words, if I want a puppy just to love, and there are none available in rescues that will send a puppy to Alaska, I am supposed to NOT have a puppy BECAUSE the only way to get one would be through a "BYB"? Oh, and I don't have a fenced yard, so most wouldn't adopt to me anyway. Leo is on a chain (yes, I said it) when he is outside. Notice I said WHEN. He lives inside with us, but prefers to be outside with my girls when they are out playing. Since I don't want him to run off and be road kill, he is on a 30 ft chain when outside.

So, where is one supposed to get a chow puppy without paying $3000 from a show breeder?

Tracy


A show breeder, I might add, that is producing just as many puppies as some puppy mills. There are some that I have seen (not all) that say selective breeding, and yet have puppys listed on many puppy for sale sites so often that I'd say selectively should be replaced with "wide selection." I have seen it and know of MANY. And may have those CERTS everyone is moaning about, and the DNA testing, but still falls into those categories of possible ailments not testable that are created by the extremes of the breed standard. "the extremes." too short muzzle, too heavy padding...etc.. without steam rolling.. read the article I have posted about over and over. It can be quite borning and informative all at once.
And it could be a look preference too. It again boils down to extemes. So much to say, too many deaf ears for it to fall on.

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Postby Red Dragon » Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:08 pm

Talk about deaf ears! :roll: You've dug a hole so deep you must be half way to China by now too! :lol: Go tell Chingers about how great Bob is, he might bite you with the teeth he has left! :shock: Personally I think you are just looking for attention now. :(
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Postby Rogansmommy » Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:37 pm

Most 'show breeders' I know (and I know several COE breeders who show/compete) maybe breed once every two years or so. And that's only ONE of their dogs, not ALL of their dogs.

I also want to say that I simply LOVE the fact that you have ONLY posted in this ONE THREAD Cathy. It shows your true love of the breed. :roll:
Michele

^Rogan^ at the Bridge on 5/16/09 -- always in my heart

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Postby redangie24 » Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:49 pm

kitcatak wrote:So, in other words, if I want a puppy just to love, and there are none available in rescues that will send a puppy to Alaska, I am supposed to NOT have a puppy BECAUSE the only way to get one would be through a "BYB"? Oh, and I don't have a fenced yard, so most wouldn't adopt to me anyway. Leo is on a chain (yes, I said it) when he is outside. Notice I said WHEN. He lives inside with us, but prefers to be outside with my girls when they are out playing. Since I don't want him to run off and be road kill, he is on a 30 ft chain when outside.

So, where is one supposed to get a chow puppy without paying $3000 from a show breeder?

Tracy


When the time is right if you want a chow and are willing to travel either to Washington state or Georgia I can help you find one. The shelter here has no limit on distance as long as you personally pick up and wait the 24 hours for vaccinations and fixing. In Washington they also have a couple of shelter I know of that do not have a distance limit. None require a fenced yard. Also there are plenty of them in the paper and on the internet and on this site. So if you need help finding one when the time is right I am sure plenty of people would be willing to help you. Also, if you do not want a rescue that is okay too. If you need help finding a puppy some show breeders will have a puppies that are pet quality and will sell them for less. Also, some of them have "retired" older dogs that were show or breeding and they will sell them or give them away to the right home.
Have a Chowfastic Day!!
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Postby RHENEGADE CHOWS » Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:17 pm

Red Dragon wrote:Talk about deaf ears! :roll: You've dug a hole so deep you must be half way to China by now too! :lol: Go tell Chingers about how great Bob is, he might bite you with the teeth he has left! :shock: Personally I think you are just looking for attention now. :(

eh? whats that? :wink: I'll have to leave my chows in the care of my neighbors again :shock: ...I'll send you some genuine chinese chow poo when I get there. 8) jk. I thought you were "Sam"... cause I personally know that Summer can speak for herself, and she is a very sweet person going through a totally different situation than mine and its a sad one, so if you think I haven't heard about him, well again, that leaves you holding the short stick. I heard about him, before I had the great pleasure of your aquantence. And since you know so much about genetics, then you know the more you know, the less you can control when a fluke gene pops up send a message to an area of a dog to keep growing rather than stop. Both parents, even the grand parents and the great grand parents could have had perfect bites and it could still happen. What I don't know is when was the underbite diagnosed? I didnt ask her that, but I will.

Oh Sam... You know how much I enjoy our chats. when I bite into a peppermint patty I get the sensation that Sam is blowing frosty BS up my @$$. jk again...

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Postby RHENEGADE CHOWS » Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:24 pm

Rogansmommy wrote:Most 'show breeders' I know (and I know several COE breeders who show/compete) maybe breed once every two years or so. And that's only ONE of their dogs, not ALL of their dogs.

I also want to say that I simply LOVE the fact that you have ONLY posted in this ONE THREAD Cathy. It shows your true love of the breed. :roll:


who is Cathy? Look how long I have been a member... look how many posts I have made since being on here.. I do have dogs to take care of, and children, and homework to help with, and a life, so In between these posts on this thread, of which if I don't respond I get criticized, I am caring for my family, fur ones and all. And your statement is incorrect as I did make a post on one other thread, I will try to find for you. It's becoming so obvious that I can't please everyone, no matter the truth and some of you are such drama seakers and thrive from it, others feel they must be master of everything, And wow, I have also met some really sensible fabulous people on here. You however appear to be one I can't please. And I don't aim to, as you seem to be the type that can order something exactly to specification and still turn your nose up at it. Get over yourself. Have a nice evening

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Postby chris » Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:30 pm

You guys are still going? :shock:
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Postby chris » Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:34 pm

Jeff... what happend to your post.. it was here a second ago... :shock:

anyway.. you guys are like the energizer bunny.
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Postby RHENEGADE CHOWS » Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:35 pm

chris wrote:You guys are still going? :shock:


Your boy is sooo handsome... I wrote pretty first and erased... or maybe its a girl? in which case pretty.
Is he/she a blue or a black. I ask because Belle is soooo dark of a blue she almost black. and in photos well she can look anything from Black, to a silvery blue depending on lighting.. anyways.. he's nice.. and if I am not on your good list you don't have to respond, I just thought I'd mention it as I had thought it everytime I saw the photo...
:-D

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Postby Jeff&Peks » Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:35 pm

Chris, it did get good for about an hour. Camping in Alaska, Bobs Big Boy, vacations, Chowfest and even Quazimoto.
“...There comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular, but one must take it because conscience tells one that it is right.” MLK

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Postby chris » Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:43 pm

Too long for me to read or creat opinoins... I'm a Lover not a judger.. ;-)



Steel is a Blue, but yes I agree... he seems so dark at times, I think he is black. I had 2 other black chows. You can really tell the "blue" with the sunlight... :-)
Thanks for the complament Rendagade. :)
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Postby chris » Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:44 pm

Jeff&Peks wrote:Chris, it did get good for about an hour. Camping in Alaska, Bobs Big Boy, vacations, Chowfest and even Quazimoto.


You mean I missed quazi? DAMN... :lol:
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Postby redangie24 » Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:53 pm

Jeff&Peks wrote:The only problem with me and camping in Alaska or camping period is i'm one of thos OCD guy's that can't live with out a shower with in 10 ft of me or I go crazy, I tried it once and noway, the next mourning I couldnt last more then an hour and had to go find a hotel just for a shower. thats why I only talk about camp ground by the lake, they have showers.


My hubby is the same exact way. We have never really camped togeather just stayed in cabins. He is such baby. Guess what that makes you? :lol:
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Postby Red Dragon » Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:55 pm

I have camping Chow pictures if someone wants to post them?
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Postby Jeff&Peks » Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:59 pm

[quoteMy hubby is the same exact way. We have never really camped togeather just stayed in cabins. He is such baby. Guess what that makes you? :lol:[/quote]

A clean person?
“...There comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular, but one must take it because conscience tells one that it is right.” MLK

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Postby IliamnasQuest » Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:00 pm

I always thought an Alaskan get-together with a bunch of dogs would be a great time! And I have the perfect solution - the fishing lodge has cabins with private bathrooms (AND showers!) for those who prefer not to sleep on the ground .. *LOL* .. just watch for moose, caribou and bears when you open the door.

And we ARE "dog-friendly" .. Khana and Trick play at the lodge all the time in the summers (Trick is the designated "fetch a beer from the fridge" dog .. *G*).

Back on the other topic ..

I thought the name "Bob Twedt" was familiar .. *sigh* .. I see he's adjusted his website to hide much of what he had before. But he is the epitome of a BYB/glorified puppy miller in my opinion. I know some here have purchased from him and I am not in any way trying to diminish what you have with your particular dogs. I know you love and cherish them as you should. But he is the type of breeder who fails to do even the most basic of health certifications on his breeding stock. He breeds frequently (in his words: "Both *Censored Word* and a variety of colors and ages are usually available."). As far as I can tell he just constantly breeds and sells so that he can make a comfortable living off the production of puppies.

To further illustrate how breeding is his livelihood - he advertises on all of these "puppymill selling sites" (my terminology):

Petsunlimited.com
Puppyfind.com
Findbreeders.com
Puppydogweb.com
Dogresources.com
Breederbase.com
Freedoglistings.com
Puppy.com
Topdogbreeders.com
Dogbreederdirectory.com
Puppyseek.com
Breederbase.com
Puppyshop.com
Findapuppy.com

THESE are the types of "breeders" that all you anti-breeding people should go after! All that over-breeding people keep griping about? There it is - and these dogs live in kennels because there are just plain way too many to live in a person's home.

<img src="http://images.petsunlimited.com/Kennel1.JPG">

There's the great life that Bob's dogs have. Wouldn't you love to live in a kennel like that, producing litter after litter until you're too old to produce any more?

Everyone is going to make up their own minds, but please think long and hard about it. Here we have a breeder who is producing a continuous supply of puppies .. not doing the health certifications prior to breeding .. and on our OWN limited forum there has been at least one of his pups with serious health issues. Surely that affects us all??

And now we have someone else coming here, whooping and hollering and ranting about how bad OTHER breeders are, when she herself is buying her breeding stock from someone who doesn't do health certications. Even if hers pass, health problems are passed down through generations and it's vitally important that there be health certifications for several GENERATIONS and not just one. And instead of even waiting until the certs are completed, she's following in her mentor's footsteps by breeding her young dogs.

It's all there in facts.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska

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Postby RHENEGADE CHOWS » Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:00 pm

Rogansmommy wrote:Most 'show breeders' I know (and I know several COE breeders who show/compete) maybe breed once every two years or so. And that's only ONE of their dogs, not ALL of their dogs.

I also want to say that I simply LOVE the fact that you have ONLY posted in this ONE THREAD Cathy. It shows your true love of the breed. :roll:


found it for you...

Topic: heartbroken in pittsburgh
RHENEGADE CHOWS

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Forum: General Discussions Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:46 am Subject: Re: heartbroken in pittsburgh
hello everyone. im currently facing a bad situation and i need help. my parents are moving and i have no place for my 2 chows to live. i will not give them up for any reason. the female is so attached ...

You'd have to go to that thread to see my reply....

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Postby RHENEGADE CHOWS » Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:12 pm

You mean your version of hte facts yes.... I have been there and in that fuzzy picture, as I have much clearer ones. 85% of the dogs you see in that huge kennel ARE his OLD TIMERS and RESCUES you so love to preach about.
Tell me, have you ever been driving down the road and seen a chow tied to a tree post and stop and not leave till you leave with it? NOT FOR BREEDING?! AND THEN GIVE IT A FOREVER HOME YOURSELF? YOU DONT SEEM TO UNDERSTAND AND SAM, THAT IT WAS THE DNA'ING OF THESE RESCUES AND ONES THAT ARE IN THIER LATE TEENS YES LATE TEENS, they look like old teddy bears where the fur is wearing thin from old age, it was these guys I do believe and I may be wrong on the exact argument, but it was over wanting to DNA these old timers and the rescues and she was being very disrepectful and he physically removed her from his property. Of course I am sure you will turn that into something it wasn't. She reported it back to AKC, not that anything was wrong with this kennel or dogs, but that he laid hands on her. FIND OUT FOR YOURSELF! and they banned him I think it was 10 years, maybe life.. but for whatever reason, he chose not to go back and did go with UABR. And the dogs of all ages, *Censored Word* and colors, a lot of those are rescues my dear. Oh what he's suppose to want to take the glory like you do. Grand standing you call it. He goes about his business and takes care of his dogs and loves them. And yes he's a breeder and yes he advertises. And since you want to call those sites puppy mill sites, why don't you tour them and see all the SHOW BREEDERS ON THERE. BITE THAT ONE MELANIE.

And yep, thats his kennel. What is so deplorable... that is COMPLETELY INSIDE and they arn't in the harsh weather, that the floors are clean with the number of dogs he has? Oh that they have food that isn't sat on the floor...Oh yes thats it.. Oh wait, its that they always have fresh water.. god forbid. However I have recent clear shots, anyone want to see the so called atrocity? I have the facts Melanie, you have the drama.

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Postby Red Dragon » Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:12 pm

Now look, I have camping pictures with Chows and nobody wants to post them for me, I thought we moved on to camping? Melanie, how much does a weekend fishing trip with lodging cost up there, any big trout?
Sam

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Postby RHENEGADE CHOWS » Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:20 pm

OH WAIT WAIT... I FORGOT.. THE WORST THING... YOU HAVE TO HEAR THIS ONE... I KNOW WHAT WAS SOOOOOO BAD.. THAT THEY ARE GROOMED AND IN EXCELLENT CONDITION...... OMG.. CALL ANIMAL CONTROL!!!!

I WAS IN CHOW CHOW HEAVEN. AND ALL BUT 1 WAS FRIENDLY ENOUGH TO GO IN WITH, AND THAT ONE, WAS ONE THAT HAD BEEN BEATEN BY ITS OWNER, AND TIED UP, AND HE TOOK THE CHOW BACK, YEP HE WAS THE BREEDER. AND IT GOT MEAN AND DOESN'T LIKE WOMEN... MAYBE YOU SHOULD GO IN WITH HIM MELANIE... AND BOB WORKED WITH HIM, AND HE IS SO GREAT WITH HIM...YEP.. THATS SO HORRIBLE.... YOU HAVE PROVEN YOUR POINT THIS TIME.... HONEY... GO USE YOUR ENERGY FOR ALL THIS GOOD YOU SAY YOU ARE DOING, AND LEAVE A PERSON LIKE HIM ALONE WHO DOESNT ASK FOR THE GLORY IN DOING WHAT HE DOES. YOU CAN HATE HIM BREEDING ALL YOU LIKE, BUT HE DOES DO RESCUE TOO, AND HE DOESN'T "GIVE AWAY" HIS OLD BREEDING STOCK HE HAS THEM ON THE PREMESIS SO YOU CAN SEE THEM.

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Postby Red Dragon » Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:24 pm

Chow pictures! Anyone! Bueller! Bueller! :lol:
Sam

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Postby ngraham » Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:45 pm

I have said it before and I will say it again, there will always be a debate over breeders, BYB's and rescues from now until H*ll freezes over. Not everyone is going to agree. I am not a breeder. I have no desire to breed. But I have had experience with Bob Twedt. Does he fit the criteria for a puppy mill? In my opinion, that could go both ways depending on how you want to look at it. Yes, he has alot of chows there and yes, he breeds and sells alot of puppies. So in that aspect, if you want to call him a puppy mill, then I guess he is. But never in my life, have I ever seen any puppy mill look the way that Bob Twedt's kennel looks. It's extremely clean, those chows have plenty of room to roam, the chows themselves are clean and they have plenty... and I mean plenty of food, water and medical attention when they need it. And not all of the chows there are there for breeding purposes. And unless you have visited his kennels, you have no clue. There are tons of senior (as in 15 to 20 years of age) chows there, that are there just to live out their lives... abuse and neglect free. He has given sanctuary to the chows no one loved or wanted. He runs a chow sanctuary. Giving refuge, food and medical attention to those chows costs money. It is my opinion and belief that the puppies he sells, fund the sanctuary that the others live in. Believe me when I tell you, that Bob and Katie are not living in the lap of luxury. They are not making tons of money from puppy sales. Those puppies don't sell for a high enough price for him to make tons of money. And the money they do make is being put right back into the kennels and making sure that each and everyone of those chows have the food, medical attention and the refuge that they deserve. Puppy mills don't care if the puppys that come from them have enough food, water and medical attention. I have walked through that kennel, not once, but twice and each time I saw beautiful, well socialized dogs that I was encouraged to talk to and pet. That tells me he plays with and talks to his chows. He knows the history and story behind each and everyone of them. They love him and react to him in a truly beautiful way. No, Bob doesn't do the testing that should probably be done. But again, at the price that he sells those puppies for, he can't. Does that make him a puppy mill? It's all a matter of opinion. I know that Bob Twedt backs his chow grandkids and is ALWAYS there (contrary to what was being told) when problems arise with one of his chow grandkids. I know the story about Chi-Ching and believe me when I tell you... Bob was contacted about it, not only by me, but by others. I am not going to start another long battle thread with Summer over Bob, but I will say, there are 2 sides to every story and leave it at that. When a member of this forum gave me some advice about looking into a blue chow puppy, I went directly to Bob with what I was told. Any breeder who was just out to sell a puppy would have tried to bluff out of it to try to sell the pup. Bob didn't do that... not only did he agree with what I was told, he also explained to me why it was the truth. AKC, UABR, CKC? Why does it matter if you have no intention of breeding?
Sam raises show quality, health tested and certified chows. GREAT! I respect Sam and know that if I need advice, he is there. From emailing back and forth with him after Molly came to us, I am aware of all of the research he does in lineage. Great. But I do respect Bob Twedt just as much if not more so. Chi-Ching's problems may or may not be hereditary. I am sorry that Chingers has problems. But not even Sam has 100% control over what happens in a litter of his puppies. No one can. Again, that's why there are show quality puppies and pet quality puppies. And in all honesty... not everyone can afford to spend 1,000 to 2,000 on a puppy.
You all can go on with this battle that will never end. I just wanted to chime in on the part of the thread that I'd had experience in. I do agree with whoever said that there should be a cap on what breeders could sell their puppies for... and then I believe alot of the breeding would stop.
Nancy and Tai

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Postby Auddymay » Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:46 pm

Sam, e-mail me your photos at auddymay@hotmail.com. I will post them in a suitable place, where they won't get buried in the repartee.

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Postby cheriekynb » Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:53 pm

chris wrote:Jeff... what happend to your post.. it was here a second ago... :shock:

anyway.. you guys are like the energizer bunny.


HA HA HA HA HA HA.. This one actually had me LAUGING OUT LOUD!!
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