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General discussions about Chow Chows.

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Taz
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Postby Taz » Sun Nov 06, 2005 9:06 am

I know many of you won't agree with me on this.
But I will try to explain how I think when i'm talking about dogs and not trying to take over the family.

First of all. Do Dogs look at their family as their pack?
Dogs are social animals, and if they are socialized right, they have the ability to live friendly with other species.
But can a dog be a part of the human pack?
No, because of the time the puppy spends with its mother and siblings, that makes the puppy think like a dog.It gives the dog a permanent scar in the puppies brain.
It will learn to act like an dog and recognize other dogs.
We offer the dog a place in our family, but the dog can't be a part of our pack because of the imprinting the puppy got the first weeks of its life.
The dog does not think like us, doesn't act like us, doesn't smell like us, or have the same values as we have.

And as long as the dog has food, water, roof over its head, mental and physical activation and company the dog as no need to want an higher rank.
A dog will get attached to the owner but never a part of the human pack.

If there is something you don't agree with me on, let me know, and if you have any questions, just ask. :)

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Postby Jeff&Peks » Sun Nov 06, 2005 10:10 am

If you ever get a chance try to get a copy of the Discovery Channels The creation of today's domestic dogs, I can't remember the exact title but its about a 4 to 6 hour show starting way back thousands of years ago to the beginning with wolfs and how today's domestic dogs came about, it will change your mind about your views on pack order and the relationship between man and dog, It basically says the same thing as Victory's post.

I don't know about other breeds but a Chow will definantly place it self in some position in the family and will if given the chance try to place it self as the head of the family, I see it every day with Pekoe in her mind me and her are equals my wife and all others are below her in the family unit, you can see it in the way she responds to others and in her protection mode, when out on walks she is way more protective and argumentive (growling) with my wife then with me, Pekoe watches out for her more and try's to bath her before bed, my wife laughs and swears Pekoe thinks she is her puppy. Someone just mentioned that a Chow will bite the hand that feeds it, I've been joking about that for years saying a Chow is the only breed that doesn't understand the phrase don't bite the hand that feeds you. Not only will a Chow bite the hand that feeds it if you ever read the Post that some of us wrote about how our Chows will get mad at us and want nothing to do with us for days by Pekoes reaction I think if a Chow doesn't like its home and can get the chance they will just pack up and move out so I think your wrong when you say all a dog cares about is food ,water and a roof over its Head and also wrong regarding a pack order and its relationship with humans. So again I will say we are not talking about dogs we are talking about Chows. I have had many dogs in my life, Pekoe being my first Chow and after living with Pekoe for almost 8 years and reading about the other Chows on this site there is nothing dog about a Chow.

There are a few of us in here that pretty much have just let our Chows be Chows, very little discipline unless needed, no obedience schools or training of any type, we just work around and deal with some of the Chow issue's and problems by avoiding the situations that Chows have a bad rep for and just let our Chows be what they are, We think of them and treat them as a family member and not a pet, talk to them like like you would any member of the family, spoil the heck out of them and let them do just about anything they want as long as they aren't hurting anyone so we are the ones that might notice the pack order more then others.

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Postby Taz » Sun Nov 06, 2005 10:30 am

My theory isn't just something i've made up.
And iv'e read plenty of books, and studied dogs.
And I won't change my mind. Dogs will not take over their family.
And if you've ever heard of Turid Rugaas and Barry Eaton you might wanna read some of their books.

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Postby Taz » Sun Nov 06, 2005 2:33 pm

Jeff&Peks wrote:There are a few of us in here that pretty much have just let our Chows be Chows, very little discipline unless needed, no obedience schools or training of any type, we just work around and deal with some of the Chow issue's and problems by avoiding the situations that Chows have a bad rep for and just let our Chows be what they are, We think of them and treat them as a family member and not a pet, talk to them like like you would any member of the family, spoil the heck out of them and let them do just about anything they want as long as they aren't hurting anyone so we are the ones that might notice the pack order more then others.


I don't think you should let your dog have no rules, and just let them do whatever they want.
Dog needs rules, and they also need Mental activation.
Chows are pets, not humans.
And I feel sorry that you thinks this about Chows.

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Postby Jeff&Peks » Sun Nov 06, 2005 5:30 pm

I guess it would depend on ones definition of the word pet, to me a pet is something you bring into your home for amusement and being how it is thought of as a pet can be disposed of easily.

On the other hand to me any animal that is adopted into your family becomes a family member and will be thought of and treated as a family member and shell remain as a family member no matter what the outcome or the troubles that may occur in your life until its death.

If we are feeling sorry about anything lets feel sorry for the household pet.

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Postby Victory » Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:18 am

Jeff-- I agree with you about pets. My chows are not pets they are my "brother and sister of fur", younger brother and sister but still siblings. I respect that their minds work differently than mine does and therefore they have a different world view than my own. Mine is not superior to theirs, nor is theirs superior to mine; only different.

I'm the leader because I understand the rules by which we, (all three) of us must live in this society, I provide the food, water and shelter and monitor my own and their behavior to make sure we live inside the laws, (I don't bite people and Darkwind and Firesong can't either no matter how much some one may need to be bit!)

If we lived outside this society in a forest or something, then most likely Darkwind would be Alpha and I'd be Omega.

Yes, puppies bond with their mother and siblings as dogs, but our ancestors choose puppies that could switch that bond from other dogs to humans for their companions. (yes I watched the same speicial you did and I've seen and read other experts on this as well) and most importantly chows bond tightly and find it hard to switch a bond from one human to another. I've now rescued three adult chows, (my first two were my moms and the bond was easier) and all three took from three months to 9 months to actually bond to me. By bonding I mean; do they come to me just to cuddle or be petted on their own, or only when they want something? If the later we're not quite there yet, if the former we've bonded. Do they look me in the eye, (I'm not talking about a stare down contest to see who's alpha), just an acknowledgement of presence. When we go for walks do their ears flick backwards to keep track of me or stay focused on what else is around them?

When I got Darkwind he only came to me when he wanted something on his own, (he intialized it) he would come if I called him, but not on his own. Now he follows me around, whines when he can't see me and demands a fair amount of petting. When I call him he'll look directly at me, (I actually taught him to do this, by giving him the command, "to me" and pointing at my eyes when he looked at me he got petted and praised) and when during our walks those first few months he knew someone was on the other end of the leash he just didn't care who it was, now his ears flick backwards so he can keep track of me.

Bonding to me is about a relationship that isn't just built around food and water, it's about genuine caring and respect and dependence on one another. So when I say "pack" I am talking about family in it's deepest and truest form. And the only way to create an interspecies family is for the so-called intelligent ones to learn how the other species thinks and emotes.

There are many theories but I think that when you consider canines you have to consider the entire history of the speicies going back to that bear/wolf creature from which the two speicies diverged to when man first brought puppies into our sphere and what they bred them for and to do since then.
Victory, Darkwind, (our angel), Firesong, and Dreamdancer
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Thank you SweetPea!


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