Breeders: What to Look For?

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Matsuro
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Breeders: What to Look For?

Post by Matsuro »

What does one look for when looking for a chow chow breeder? I know most Rb breeder's don't ship; but I dont see the problem with shipping dogs or puppies or even cats and kittens. Its safe, there are poilices that are followed by the airlines and the breeder. So why are so many breeders so against shipping now?
Anyways, I would really love to have a puppy or older chow shipped someday. I'm getting father along in school then I thought I would. I put in ten different applications for work and just waiting until I'm fully finished with my current school so I can sign up for possibly online school.

Anyways, I think I found a chow breeder that I'm interested in. But, since I'm not ready yet to add a chow in my life. I wanted to ask you to take a look and tell me if they are a good choice of a breeder?

D&M Farms. I won't add the link because I dont know if we are allowed.
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Post by mytwodoxies »

Just my two cents....

Check to see if a dog that might fit your family is in rescue.

Many folks here have had awesome experienced finding their best friend that way.

Thre are tons of chows and chow mixes that end up at animal control because many rescues won't even touch them. I see you are in Florida. I just sent a chow to Iowa where a forever home is waiting because they are so hard to place here. I have his relatives who are chow crosses going up to New York in a transport for the same reason. And now that i am helping them, more people are coming out of the woodwork asking me to help them too. (i already transported 8 puppies) (and all have/had excellent, tested temperments)

And because they were chow chows, the owner couldn't really try to finds locally - or let his landlord know what kind of dogs he had and i had to try on the internet so they wouldn't be kicked out because of their breed.

And it is a big myth that only the "problem dogs" end up homeless.

If you decide that you must get one from a breeder

1) Don't be dazzled by a flashy website. Anyone can buy that. its marketing. Meet the breeder.
2) A good breeder insists on fully screening the people who are interested in their dogs. This may also entail not shipping a dog unless you are a prior owner so that they can meet you and a puppy can pick you as well
3) a good breeder puts the health of their dogs foremost. If you hear a bitch had two c sections and is pregnant again - stay far away.

4) A good breeder breeds for confirmation and excellent temperment. if they promote the "colors" they have available more so than the temperment, health, of the dog with color as an afterthought - run away.
5) A good breeder socializes their dogs
6) A good breeder also rescues. They know that chow chows are not for everyone and their breed - excellence and welfare is most important. I am not saying they have to also incorporate themselves as a rescue but i have heard of plenty of breeders who would leave a starving dog on the street.
7) A good breeder can tell you about the grandparents of the pup. Did they live until their golden years? or did they have all sorts of medical probs
8) a good breeder will take a puppy back at any age if the placement despite their care was illsuited. A dog's welfare is more important than money
9) If a breeder promote their dogs as "show quality" and the sire and dam do not have championship titles - therefore "proven" - don't believe it. and do they know what the breed standard is??
10) A good breeder will allow you to see the parents and will not hesitate to allow you in their home (if that is where the dogs are kept) or kennel. A breeder that insists on keeping you out has something to hide.
11) a good breeder knows full well that their breed is often discriminated against so choose to breed with care. And they don't allow a dog to go to a pet home that won't be shown without being spayed/neutered to prevent any "accidental" puppies.
Last edited by mytwodoxies on Sun Oct 08, 2006 1:13 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Post by mytwodoxies »

I don't know why this 8) appeared in my note!

Anyways, as far as shipping - i think firstly people want to meet who they are considering for their dogs.

But also, airline travel is NOT 100% safe for dogs still. It is one thing if its a small puppy or a small dog who can travel with the person in the cabin. (under 18 lbs and short enough to be comfortable in the under the seat crate) But as cargo, there are some airlines in particular that i have not heard good things. I have heard of a dog that was "misrouted baggage" which no living thing should go through.
Also with chows having PR issues anywas, if the dog bites anyone out of fear in the process, that won't be good.

And wouldn't you want to meet the dog?
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Post by Mandy »

Here is a post when this topic came out a while back. There were a variety of ideas posted on it and take what you will from it.

http://www.chowchow.org/forum/viewtopic ... ht=breeder

But I wanted to also say, as I posted in that first post long ago...

Please consider BEFORE purchasing from a breeder that there are thousands of adult chows and puppies in desperate need of a family in rescues and shelters all over the country. See if you can find a way to bring in a Chow that needs a forever home into your family. There could be a perfect chow pup already waiting for you!

I'll try to take a look at the place you talked about later...
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Re: Breeders: What to Look For?

Post by thekidsmom »

D&M Farms. I won't add the link because I dont know if we are allowed.[/quote]\ i know of them ,i myself didnt think much of them but that was me and only me :wink: i do know they have a waiting list of over 6 months and make sure to ask lots of questions
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Post by enchantedonyx »

mytwodoxies wrote:
10) A good breeder will allow you to see the parents and will not hesitate to allow you in their home (if that is where the dogs are kept) or kennel. A breeder that insists on keeping you out has something to hide.
I once read that there are breeders that will not allow perspective pet parents into their kennel area because often, the perpective owners have been visiting every kennel in a 50 mile radius in the past few days and there is a very good chance they are carrying parvo on their shoes or something. This is done to protect their dogs from disease.

I've never bought from a breeder and probably never will. I always thought you would want to see the kennel, but this also makes sense, from the breeders standpoint.

I know it's a bit away from the topic of what was asked, but I just wondered if there were thoughts about this.
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Post by mytwodoxies »

Well, the responsibilty lies with both potential owner and breeder. (its up to the owner to do a little more weeding down before they actually visit and up to the breeder to keep the health of the dogs at the fore and not let people who have just visited 5 other kennels to touch newborns)

My answer assumed you were already to the point of having spoken with the breeder, and were going to either "make today the day" to select the dog or you were close to doing it.

It assumed that you would have already researched a variety of breeders, and probably would have weeded out all but this one for whatever reason - that they were no longer offering dogs, that they were unreputable in some way, or you didn't click. You would not be traipsing around the state in one day with a deadline "to find a dog today."

So saying that - if when you finally go to a breeder and the person hands you a puppy over a fence or meets you at the gate with the dog you are interested in and doesn't let you through, they give you vague reasons why you cannot see the mother of the dog, or why you can't meet grown relatives of the dog (or are directed to where their handlers are showing them to see them in action) then its a red flag. I guess that is where my answer should have been elaborted.

It is so hard for me to be "good" in a topic like this i know. There are just too many good chows out there needing a good home.
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Post by Victory »

enchantedonyx wrote:[
I once read that there are breeders that will not allow perspective pet parents into their kennel area because often, the perpective owners have been visiting every kennel in a 50 mile radius in the past few days and there is a very good chance they are carrying parvo on their shoes or something. This is done to protect their dogs from disease.

I know it's a bit away from the topic of what was asked, but I just wondered if there were thoughts about this.
That's a load of crap in my opinion. The only dogs any breeder should have that are susceptible to Parvo would be very young puppies and maybe pregnant bitchs although the bitchs should have had their vacination regime and not be susceptible. Puppies should recieve their first vacinations at six weeks, so only really young ones would be susceptible, to parvo, distemper and parainfluenzia. Any breeder that uses this excuse for not allowing a prespective owner to look at their kennels is either very misinformed, (in which case what else don't they know,), or they are hiding something.

A good breeder will encourage a perspective owner to come to their kennels, they should want to show off their dogs. Also it's a way to get to see how the perspective owner interacts with the dogs. There should be lots of questions from both sides. I would never even consider a breeder who wouldn't let me see their kennels, and I might even go so far as to contace the ASPCA to inspect those kennels.
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Post by Sojourner11 »

First off, have you ever been owned by a Chow before? If not then I'd start with an adult who maybe was raised by somebody that properly socialized him and he/she just needs a good home now. Between those who post here and a local petfinder.com search I'm certain you would turn up many candidates.

Chow and Chow mixes are some of the hardest to place or adopt at the local animal control. They are the first to get killed. Maybe the best friend you'll ever have is sitting in a cage right now waiting for you to come get him. Think about it..... :D
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Post by jerryo »

..and if someone doesn't come get him, they are gonna kill him.
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Post by IliamnasQuest »

Well, darn, I typed out a long response to this and then lost it when my connection went down. So I'm starting over .. *sigh*

I went to the website for D&M Farms and looked at most of what they have there.

As far as I can tell, they are just a glorified puppy mill specializing in chow puppies. They breed frequently and sell puppies to whoever has the money without having any sort of questionaire for the potential buyers to fill out. They breed for colors and they do not breed for quality.

They make no mention of health testing done on any of their breeding stock - not one OFA number (hips or elbows), no eye certifications, no thyroid testing done. Their "guarantee" is minimal and only done with a replacement for the puppy you've already fallen in love with.

I went through all 12 pedigrees that they provide. Most of the dogs are very closely related. In the four generations shown on the 12 dogs (30 dogs per pedigree) there were only six champion dogs, and four times it was the same dog. All but one champion was four generations back. There's been no attempt to show their dogs - the excuse is a lack of time, but if they don't have time to prove that their dogs are quality they should not be taking the time to breed.

They charge a high price for these pet quality puppies (with no health testing behind them) and they charge more for certain colors (a typical puppy mill mentality). They let you take the pups at six weeks - eight weeks is the minimum for good socialization time with their littermates and dam, but they'd like to just get those pups out and the money in as quickly as possible.

I would never recommend that someone buy from a breeder like this.

Finding a good breeder is certainly a possibility online, but you really want to look for those who do health testing while still breeding for temperament and proper type. Showing dogs is not necessary but it does prove that the dog conforms to the breed standard and is generally healthy, sound of temperament and has the ability to work with the owner.

Shipping a dog is not necessarily a bad thing, but buying a puppy from a breeder with no proof that the sire and dam of the pup have been health tested and have met certain standards of conformation and working ability puts you at huge risk of getting a puppy of dubious health and temperament.

I spent a year looking for my last pup, and ended up having her shipped from Ontario, Canada to Alaska. The breeder I found had a good repuation and I was able to talk to her veterinarian and the stud dog's owner (who also is a very reputable breeder). I was able to research some of the lineage and make sure that these were dogs that had a good background and a solid temperament along with health certifications. Because of that, I felt comfortable in having a puppy shipped. Khana showed up absolutely happy and energetic and healthy after a 12 hour trip.

So shipping can certainly be done successfully, but I would never buy a pup from a questionable place online. There are all sorts of horror stories about people sending money and never getting anything, or getting a puppy that ended up very sick and some dying. Anyone can tell you anything online.

Good luck in your search, and please consider one of the many rescue dogs out there too.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska
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Post by kiwani »

Re: "D&M Farms. I won't add the link because I dont know if we are allowed"

Check the archives too. We reviewed this puppy farm several months ago.
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Post by mich »

I have 3 Chows from DM Farm. I live about an hour away from the Kennel. I have 3 very well adjusted chowdren. I wouldn't trade them for anything. I have two litter mates both males. They have never been separated, they get along wonderful, all three of my Kids (chowdren) are very affectionate with each other. They are very healthy, happy.

I DO NOT consider DM Farm a puppy mill. They breed good quality well adjusted pups they grow up to be well adjusted adults. The breeders are extremely friendly, very helpful, and genuine people. Just because they don't show there dogs does not make them bad breeders. Because they have many dogs at there kennel does not make them a puppy mill.

We have been to the kennle many, many times, I have 3 of there dogs and my brother has bought 2. People stop us all the time and ask us where we got out kids.

My vet is very impressed with my kids, she and her partner state they have never had such well behaved dogs come to the office. And her partner stated he has never had his face next to a Chows face ever. They trust my dogs and treat them with respect. They do not have to be muzzled at the office.

Getting back to the kennel as I said before I have been there many times, and walked through the runs with the dogs. WE go and visis alot and all 3 dogs always go for the visit. They run and frolic on the property and Maleah and Darryl welcome them with open arms.

The pups at there kennel are cheap compared to some places. And the quality it excellent. I say go for a visit and you will see what I am talking about.

Infact I am presently waiting for # 4. So I say that says alot. I would post photos for you all to see but, cant get the photo gallery to work for me. Gladley I will send anyone photos if you would like to see.

I think that some breeders that show loose the whole concept of what a good dog should be. I raised and showed German Shepherds for years I seen what some breeders did to a great breed for the sake of the show ring.

So please before you judge take a visit or call them. You will be impressed. I think alot of breeders out there charge more for certain colors. What does it matter. I guess beauty is all in the eyes of the beholder.

I think it is great if people resue helpless Chows and other breeds. But some of us still want a pup, and I personally what to know where it came from.
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Post by redangie24 »

Personally, I would skip them. In my opinion they overbreed.
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Post by dnmfarm »

Victory wrote:[That's a load of crap in my opinion. The only dogs any breeder should have that are susceptible to Parvo would be very young puppies and maybe pregnant bitchs although the bitchs should have had their vacination regime and not be susceptible. Puppies should recieve their first vacinations at six weeks, so only really young ones would be susceptible, to parvo, distemper and parainfluenzia.]

Vaccinations are not foolproof and puppies are not fully immune until they have had the full series of vaccinations. Please check with you veterinarian for more info.

IliamnasQuest wrote:[As far as I can tell, they are just a glorified puppy mill specializing in chow puppies. They breed frequently and sell puppies to whoever has the money without having any sort of questionaire for the potential buyers to fill out. They breed for colors and they do not breed for quality. ][/quote]

D & M Farm breeds for the AKC breed standard with an emphasis on temperament. We do have many colors which is part of our breeding program. We breed our dams for two seasons and then they are off for a year, as a rule. Of course, it depends entirely upon how quickly the dam rebounds after having puppies. Her health determines the health of the puppies.

We have not found the questionaire to be very helpful. Instead we prefer to talk to the prospective buyer. We have dissuaded potential buyers from buying a Chow when we felt it would not be the right fit. The majority of our clientel are present or past Chow owners.

Anyone is welcome to visit our kennel. It will be obvious that we are not a puppy mill. You will find that we love and take very good care of our dogs. We have been inspected by the new surprise AKC inspection program and passed with no problem. We provide our veterinarian as a contact for prospective buyers in reference to the health and well-being of our animals.

Maleah Allen
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Post by IliamnasQuest »

Hi Maleah -

So let me ask you - what exactly do you do for health testing? Where are the OFA numbers for each of your breeding stock? Are their eyes certified at least annually in order to avoid PRA and other congenital eye diseases? Have any of your dogs been tested for thyroid disease?

I also see that a number of your breeding stock are closely related. Are you aware of the potential problems in breeding closely related dogs? Linebreeding/inbreeding is something to be taken seriously and only done by those who really understand the backgrounds of their dogs and have carefully assessed their dogs to determine if linebreeding will increase flaws.

How do you make a determination as to whether or not your dogs are "quality"? Is this merely you looking at the dog and saying "yep, that one is good enough to breed"? A good breeder has their dogs evaluated by knowledgeable people in order to determine any possible faults that could eventually create problems in the lines. THAT is why breeders show and have their dogs breed surveyed. A dog that is just AKC registered and looks like a chow is not necessarily breeding quality. People who care about the breed only breed for quality and not merely to sell puppies (which is all you do, from what I can tell).

How many litters a year do you produce? I look at your statement:

"We breed our dams for two seasons and then they are off for a year, as a rule. Of course, it depends entirely upon how quickly the dam rebounds after having puppies. Her health determines the health of the puppies. "

With nine breeding bitches, coming into heat twice a year - that could easily mean upwards of ten litters a year even with a rotation. More than that, since you may very possibly breed more frequently if the dam "rebounds" quickly. I figure you make at least $30,000 from sale of puppies a year (ten litters X 4 puppies X $750 each - more for "colors" - more if you produce bigger litters).

If your veterinarian recommends that anyone buy a puppy from non-tested stock (regardless of the breed) then I would say your vet is also in this for the money. I worked as a vet tech for years - a GOOD vet will not recommend puppies from breeders who do not do the basic tests to check for genetic problems in their lines. The only reason not to do these tests is because the breeders don't want to find out if their money-makers have a problem that might slow the money-flow.

Yes, I'm blunt about this. I am sick and tired of seeing people's tears when they find out that the puppy they purchased, that they now love, has some disease that probably could have been avoided if the breeders had been RESPONSIBLE and CARING enough to test their dogs.

I hold by my position, that your "farm" is merely a glorified "puppy farm". Do the testing on your stock, get your animals out to be assessed by qualified individuals, and start breeding for quality instead of money, and THEN I may change my mind.

And .. since you've bothered to join the forum, please go down and look through the rescue section and see how many chows are out there already who are in need of a home. If you were a breeder who produced an occasional litter of quality puppies, that wouldn't be an issue. But as someone who mass produces puppies, you should take a good look at how many are already out there homeless. Spend some time at petfinder and tell me if all those messages of homeless chows don't bring tears to your eyes. YOU are the type of breeder that helps provide these lost souls. Do you have your puppies spayed/neutered before selling them? No, I don't think so. You sell your pups and now those new owners have the opportunity to breed them and send out more puppies into the world.

I'm just disgusted.

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Post by Rogansmommy »

I was going to stay out of here, but since D&M showed up, I have some questions myself.

Where are your titled chows? Have you been to any shows lately? Have you shown lately?

What do you actively do to protect the integrity of the breed? How many Chows have you rescued? You, of course, provide to take back any chow bred by you, correct? You place older chows, I'm sure.

I would also be interested in OFA numbers (hips and elbows of course) and other health certs for all of your breeding dogs. I'm also curious to see your Code of Ethics.

I'm sure that, as the 'responsible breeders' you claim to be, answering all of these questions will be no problem. :roll:


Seriously, I agree with Melanie, Victory and Redangie. Puppy mill. Stay away.
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Post by mich »

I am sure if the Kennel my kids came from is not welcome here, I am probaly not welcome either. I think any breeder that entered this site would be treated this way. As if they are the problem. Instead of the idiots who get dogs and should not own dogs. So should all adults be sterilized so we dont have any more problem children on earth. Would that be the wise thing to do. And obviously it is wise to train dogs to bring you a can of beer. Yeah ok that shows some peoples mentality. I know I have excellent, sound, healthy kids. Well adjusted and a joy in my home. I dont believe in crating them, they learn quick and are always happy to please and do right. Never had to use a crate to house break one of my chows. Slam the folks who got the dogs and decided not to keep them for whatever reason it may be. Lets see they get puppies because they are cute. When a person pays good money for a dog they intend on keeping them. How many times have you seen or heard of someone buying a dog and then just tossing them out. Not often. I commend people who rescue I think it is great. I on the other hand would not bring an adult dog in my home with the ones I have without worrying about the outcome. You have no idea what the dogs life was like prior to taking it and the risk factor is too great. I would not risk the ones I love. So I have decided this site is not for me any longer, I have never seen someone treated so cruel. Especially, such a good person. I resent you thinking my dogs came from a puppy mill. I happen to take it personally. Think before you speak.
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Post by redangie24 »

Mich sorry you are offended. However, there are responsible and irresponsible breeders. A good breeder recognizes that overbreeding that takes place and will not produce more than a couple of litter at most per year. It is thier resposiblilty to show health of thier stock and to have good health gurantees. And yes I know of people who have paid quite a bit for a dog and then realized that this was not the dog for them so "tossed" them away. It is the job of each breeder to carefully evaluate potetial parents to make sure they know the type of dog they are getting and to make them be realistic about whether or not a pup is right for thier family. It is impossible to evaluate that many homes for that many dogs. It does not mean they do not love thier dogs or that they treat them badly (other than breeding too often), but they are not good quality breeders. It is important for breeders to prove thier line thru showing and/or obidence and agility. It is important to keep independent reviewers to make sure the line is staying true to breed standards. Color should NEVER be an important factor to breeders for pet quality. Instead more empasis should be placed on health and temperment. All puppies should be fixed to stop unintended litters. Lastly no breeder should sell chows without extensive health gurantees and complete health certs. including OFA numbers. You are welcome as is the D&M it does not mean we will not disagree. Many of us disagree many times. We would always try to persuade D&M to lower its number of litters and to work for titles for thier dogs. You cannot expect that everyone is going to get along 100% all the time. We are human and that is just not possible. The one thing we mostly agree on is that there are way too many dogs (all breeds) out in the world and we all need to do our part to help with rescue and promote responsible breeding. Everyone is allowed slip ups. I have them. We all have them. But breeding for large profit....

BTW I am not speaking out of inexperience. I come from a family of breeders (not me) my mother did chows, my cousin (much older) did malamutes, and pomy's by two aunts. Only one still breeds the others have turned thier attention to rescue or have retired after doing rescue work.
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Post by Yvonne »

I don't mean to show my ignorance here, but what are OFA numbers?

When I've needed a fuzzball, I've always just found one that was in need of a home. Wasn't too hard to do. Beautiful dogs, but never directly from a breeder.
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Post by IliamnasQuest »

If pointing out the honest truth is cruel, then yes - I was cruel.

Breeders are welcome on this site, but they will face some stiff questioning as to their ethics and reasons for breeding.

I may very well breed my girl someday. She has to pass OFA screening on hips and elbows, eyes must be certified and thyroid tested. I wouldn't breed her until she is more mature, has her health tests done and has completed more titles to prove her ability. She already has one performance title, conformation points in both the U.S. and Canada, and has passed the certification requirements as a therapy dog.

Yes, this all takes time (the excuse given for D&M Farms was lack of time). Raising puppies also takes time - but since they can make money off of puppies by selling to ignorant unsuspecting people, then of course they're going to just pump out pups and not bother with the rest of it.

There is zero excuse - ZERO - for not doing the health testing. That alone proves they are in this not for the good of the dogs, but for the money they can make. Add to that the number of litters they have and it's obvious what their agenda is: the mighty buck.

By the way, they sell at high prices for a pet dog. It amazes me that people fall for those kind of prices for a pet. I paid less than that for a show quality chow, who has a pedigree full of champions and OFA certifications.

OH - one more thing. You just have to love how they state on their prices pages: <b>We also provide full breeding rights.</b> Let's be sure all those questionable quality puppies are available to produce more chow puppies with their new owners. Sheesh.

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Post by Auddymay »

I got my Lily from a BYB. I saw all the Chows there, and she seemed to love and care about her Chows. BUT- I cringe every time I see adds for her pups. The reason being, in my opinion, she is breeding too often, and without health certificates on the adults. And the reality is, that not having basic testing done for hips, elbows and eyes in this breed is bad practice.

Look at the recent rescues here. Hip, elbow and eye problems. Ask the new parents how much corrective surgery is, and you will understand how someone could pay $750 for a pet, and dump it. $1500 and higher for surgery, it's cheaper to just go buy a new one. So, when someone breeds the numbers that were quoted here without testing, the chances that all the dogs and bitches in the breeding program are good breeding stock, are extremely low.

While I am happy you have 3 wonderful Chows, it's the ones that end up discarded for health reasons that are drawing the disdain. IF DM Farms does the basic testing, I stand corrected. I didn't read any such assurances in her reply. This would, in fact, make her a mill by volume alone.

Mich, nobody is attacking you. It's simply that none of us wants to see health problems perpetuated. Also, I agree that $750 is pricey for a pet quality pup. Even those breeding their show quality dogs will tell you the champions are born far and few between. You will find in this membership, many degrees of acceptability of different aspects of the Chow. Just bring up training issues, and you'll see what I mean. If you feel having strong opinions is not for you, then you will be troubled often. I find when I disagree with someone, or they with me, it is good to keep in mind we all want the same end- what is best for the Chowdren.
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Victory
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Post by Victory »

I want to add here, as a person who has lost two beloved chows to stomach cancer that there is another reason to watch which dogs get bred and to also keep a careful eye on parents, grandparents and great-grandparents. There is a chance that the stomach cancer that chows and akitas get 10-20% more than other breeds is genetic. So far there is no test for this, but hopefully one will be develped soon. In the mean time it is important, (I think) for breeders to enter their dogs dna into the research program and make sure that when ever one of their breeding dogs crosses the bridge they know the cause, this is one of the ways that the research will detect whether this is a genetic issue.

If this is genetic, then I'm sure that the research will eventually identify the gene or genes responsible and then there will be another test each breeder should have done.

The thing is it's humans who have caused each and everyone of the genetic problems every domisticated animal speicies has. We're the ones who decided we wanted just this conformation, just this coat, etc. And by doing this we've bred into the stock all kinds of problems, Chows have some, Labs have a different set, Rotties have another, and it goes on and on. Those who breed any of these need to do everything in their power to correct the issues which years of breeding without all the knowledge we have today have led to. We have the tools now to do better, why does anyone argue against it?
Victory, Darkwind, (our angel), Firesong, and Dreamdancer
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dnmfarm
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Post by dnmfarm »

Yes, we have had all of our breeding dogs tested. There knees, elbows, hips, and eyes. I have not gone ahead for the additional OFA certification certificate. I have found that too many people believe that if a dog has the certification then the puppy will NEVER have any problems. They do not understand that it only means that it will not be genetically transmitted.

As for showing our dogs. . .instead of showing at this time we have requested input from other experienced Chow people who do show and judge. We did not go into breeding blindly. Showing dogs is very timeconsuming and unfortunately, with full time jobs it is just not possible to do all the traveling it will require. We do intend to begin showing our dogs in a couple of years when we retire and can devote time to it.

Yes, we make money from our chows but not nearly as much as you would think. After subtracting feed, heat, vet bills, taxes, loss of wages when we have a sick dog or puppies that need attended to, and the many additonals along the way the amount of revenue is reduced drastically.

I get many calls from people looking for Chow rescues and refer them to those I know about. I also do rescue, place our older dogs, willingly take back any puppy we have sold, spay/neuter any dog I feel should not be bred. We do not limit our registration which means buyers will have breeding rights. We also do not insist on spay/neuter although we always recommend it for the health of the dog. The majority of our clientele do spay/neuter which we recommend by six months.

There are lots of people across the country that are looking for quality Chow puppies. They are not interested in an older dog for one reason or another and many are afraid to rescue a dog due to horror stories thay have heard. Many of our clientele have lost a Chow to old age and want to raise another Chow. I also hear of the heart rending stories of diseases.

We do not inbred. We do distant line-breeding. We have recently added two additional bloodlines to our kennel for that very reason.

We feel that our kennel is a constant learning experience and I appreciate your questions. It makes us evaluate our business practices and detemine if there are things we can do better. I politely disagree with some of the statements and opinions expressed. I am comfortable with the puppies we produce and this comes from the positive feedback we have from our clientele. Many of whom continue to stay in touch and provide us updates and pictures of our puppies as they have become adults.

Maleah Allen
D & M Farm
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Sojourner11
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Post by Sojourner11 »

I have a question for D&M and any breeder that comes across this thread. If you ship a pup across the country, and for whatever reason it doesn't work out...then what? What happens to that Chow that you brought into the world? If the current owner isnt willing to pay to get it back to you do you go get it? I can't see how if you already don't make that much on this enterprise as it is.

My point is, and I think what the sentiment here is, irregardless of motive, there are too many Chows ending up in the "kill zone" of animal control or living horrible existences in abuse. If a quality breeder were to tell me that thier Chows could get a free ride home, then ok. But how do you know if yours arent adding to the problem out there?

You obvisouly have a love of the breed, but it is a fine line you walk... having enough litters to keep the lines going, pay the bills, and yet not adding to the overpopulation problem.
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