CKC registered

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lovespoohbear
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CKC registered

Postby lovespoohbear » Sun Aug 02, 2015 6:06 am

I've been reading that many people are against CKC registered puppies. I know the most well known is AKC but when you buy a puppy and their parents are only CKC, I don't understand why that is so bad. Pooh Bear is CKC registered and he is plain to see a pure bred chow. My dream is to one day breed chow chows. I love the breed and firmly believe there is no better. I know it took me over a year to find a pure bred chow in the part of the country I live in and since having Pooh Bear, you would not believe how many people that have met him are wanting a chow. I guess another reason I would like to become a breeder of these wonderful dogs is so no one else who lives in my area has to go thru what we did to find their chow babies. Anyone else on here live with a CKC and not an AKC? I'm feeling a little lonley here lol

Rory's Dad
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Re: CKC registered

Postby Rory's Dad » Mon Aug 03, 2015 6:23 pm

Just for a bit of background...AKC has been a dog registry for about 150 years. CKC is about 20 years. The main difference is how they handle registrations. AKC requires that both the dam and sire were AKC registered. This is to ensure that the dogs are purebred. CKC will allow pups to be registered as pure with less stringent standards. They require certification forms from 2 witnesses, and a review of photos that show the pup meets breed standards. Not saying they are wrong, just different.

For the standard dog, the registration means very little. Potential pet owners generally are concerned with appearance, temperament, and health.

For the potential breeder however, the difference is very big. People recognize the AKC branding, not so much with CKC. Many will question, as you have done, what the difference is and why a litter isn't AKC eligible. Your pups may be of similar quality, but anyone looking for a Show potential dog will immediately discount a CKC dog. They can't be shown in AKC Conformation events and are not eligible for CH designations. Potential pup adopters will look at the lineage and look to see those designations in the lineage. When setting the price point for your pups, the registration options will make a difference. Just as an example...Chow Chow pups deemed to be AKC Show Potential could command a price of $1500 - $3000 with both parents having achieved CH status. Pups deemed to be pet quality out of that same litter could be anywhere from $900 - $1200. For comparison dogs without any registration option would be hard pressed to move anywhere north of $500. CKC registrations would generally be in between the $500 - $1000 range.

Right or wrong, that is how the market perceives it. The AKC branding (in the US at least) has people believing that it ensures a higher quality dog. Obviously that is not always the case, but when the lineage includes CH designations it carries extra weight. It shows that the owners had faith in the line and spent considerable resources to put the dog in front of judges. The dog conformed to the breed standard, and was sociable enough to allow inspection by complete strangers, and to adapt on a regular basis to an environment that put it amongst several hundred other dogs.

As for wanting to supply everyone who appreciates the look of your Chow, I would caution you. Although we are making great strides, Chows have a poor reputation in the canine world. They are said to be unreliable, prone to biting, singular in their loyalty, and stubborn. I actually think this may have been true many years ago. But through the efforts of responsible chow owners and through information resources similar to this forum we have educated potential owners.

Without a doubt a Chow pup is the most adorable creature you will ever find. And they have a reputation for being a solid, manly type dog. So what happens when that dog sheds his fluffy puppy fur and requires daily grooming? And what happens when the young man who loved the independence and stoic nature of his dog gets married and has kids? The Chow ends up ignored and lonely. They don't understand the change and become defensive. They see a change in the pack mentality and think (rightfully sometimes), that they have lost status and attempt to regain it. Now you have the problem dog.

Proper vetting for a good forever home for the chow is a much more important issue than the registration status. If you are still considering a breeder venture, consider the experience and costs needed to birth a litter. Aside from unwanted dogs being placed in shelters, one of the biggest issues facing this breed is poor breeding. Genetic testing is a must to eliminate poor eyesight, entropion, and poor hip quality from the breed. Too often inexperienced breeders try to engineer a specific look into the breed. Trends toward heavier, closed face dogs have shortened the life expectancy of the breed. This was a dog that used to live to about 12 years on average. Currently we see way to many dogs that don't live to 8 years of age. Primarily this is due to excess strain on the hearts as they get heavier and reduced breathing capacity as the muzzle gets shorter.

lovespoohbear
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Re: CKC registered

Postby lovespoohbear » Thu Aug 06, 2015 4:30 am

I totally agree about the heavier, closed face dogs. Yes they are beautiful but I prefer my babys open face. The woman we bought Pooh Bear from has told me that if I do decide to breed she will be there to help with any questions, advice, ect that I may need.

nara
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Re: CKC registered

Postby nara » Sun Aug 16, 2015 6:10 am

@Rory's Dad: so would you say that a CKC registered dog would be less likely to have genetic screening than an AKC dog? What should a prospective buyer be looking for in a breeder if all they want is a healthy, pet quality dog?

Rory's Dad
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Re: CKC registered

Postby Rory's Dad » Mon Aug 17, 2015 6:04 pm

@Nara: I would say that its less likely, but that's totally my opinion and I really don't have anything to prove it. Just my thought. And here's my reasoning. Pets sold with a CKC registry have a much smaller profit margin. Genetic testing is not cheap. It is usually done by breeders who plan to use a dog for repeated breedings and will produce multiple litters. I certainly don't think that a 'one off' mating pair or accidental breeding pairs will have those tests done.

That being said, I would love to see CKC breeders doing more testing to certify the health of the dogs. Now that I think about it, AKC breeders as well. In either case, there is no guarantee that the sire and dam are really 'best stock' breeding material. If you look at the way the breeding world works, the top breeders will retain what they feel is the best dog in any litter for future pairings. 2nd tier dogs may be sold to a show home where they know the top part of their line will be featured. The remainder of the litter is sold as pet quality dogs. Does this mean they aren't healthy...No. What I would look to avoid are new breeders, without any sort of history, who are pairing dogs that have both fallen into that bottom tier of their litters, and then provide no testing or have limited warrantees.

For top dogs, expect to either have a history of showing to advance the breeders name, or go onto a waiting list for pups. If you have no interest in showing or breeding your new pup, then look for breeders who have a solid net presence. Look into their recent litters and ask for a referral list. Talk to prior customers and get their honest input. I would look to a breeder who has dogs with a CH designation in the dam and sire. Look for programs that produce a smaller number of litters each year (2-3) and don't repeat breeding pairs frequently. Without a doubt you should be able to visit the kennel and meet the parents (the mom may still be unavailable with young pups as they are protective and could pose a bite risk), but you want to see that the conditions are clean and humane. You want to know that the dam and sire are socialized and approachable. Ideally you can see more than one of the litter pups so you can compare how they move around and interact with you and the other dogs.


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