Bad behavior of Walter

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kevindd992002
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Bad behavior of Walter

Postby kevindd992002 » Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:54 pm

Walter is 6 months and has a couple of bad behaviors that I want to badly correct. I live ALONE in a condo and this is my first dog. I'm assuming it would be harder to raise him in such environment but it is not impossible. Please see the details below:

1.) When I walk him outside, he tends to pull on his leash really hard. He never walks! He tries to always run but I still cannot let him wander off alone because I'm not sure if he'll ever come back :( He started wearing a body harness when he was around 3 months old and developed this behavior over time. I then read that a neck collar would be better in trying to remedy this problem. It was minimized with a neck collar but after about just 2 days of him being accustomed to the neck collar, he started doing it again! It's getting really tired to walk him as I always exert too much force to try and stop him.

2.) He always urinates inside the condo. Since 3 months old, I tried to always walk him outside to pee and poo after every meal and when I feel he likes to go do it. Over time, he developed to urinating in his own "spots" inside my condo unit and I always clean it up each and every time. It becomes really tiring also. He's not doing this before, but when walking outside he tends to pee while walking! In the past, he was always steady when peeing.

3.) When he's walking outside with me, he's always in "hyper" mode. He can't stay calm which is probably why it explains 1 and 2 (portion of peeing while walking) above. It's not like he doesn't see the outside world. I make it a point to walk him at least twice a day as I work during the night. Inside the house, he's tied to a metal post when alone. I try to set him free as much as possible when I'm here. He's very comfortable being tied to that metal post though. I read that it's better to crate train him but what are the benefits of that? I have a metal crate for him but he's still not fully comfortable with it (although he's not afraid to go inside it every now and then when I leave it open beside him).

4.) Recently, he doesn't want to eat his normal food (Holistic Puppy). We went to a vet, he got his blood tested and everything seems to be normal. The vet's diagnosis is really "behavioral". There was a time that my sister fed him too much treats which I think started the whole issue regarding his normal food. The vet let me buy a royal canin "junior appetite stimulant" and mix it with the kibble Walter eats but it worked for just two meals. What he does is use his nose and pushes his food bowl around when he doesn't want to eat. It almost seems like he's expressing dislike towards his food and wants to show it to me. I hate it very much when he does that, lol.

So in summary, all these are making my life miserable. I wanted a dog to ease the stress of having to work everyday and going home very tired. Apparently, Walter is being more of a headache rather than a stress reliever, lol. I hope you guys can help me correct these behaviors and I understand that a dog is like a baby and really needs patience.

Thanks!

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Re: Bad behavior of Walter

Postby kingalls » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:05 pm

Hi,
1. Harness/Collar: The harness basically tells the Chow he can drag or pull you. Use the collar. Is it a flat or rolled collar? The rolled is better for a rough coat. When on your walk, if Walter starts to pull, stop the walk. My Nahkohe was always trying to pull/run. I would stop the walk and when we start again, I would tell him "Walk!". Perhaps a professional trainer would use a different command but "Walk" would work for us. It takes a few times for them to get it. Sometimes Nahkohe's legs would actually be "quivering" because he really wanted to run but knew the walk would stop if he pulled.
2. The pee areas must be thoroughly cleaned to remove the scent. Once they have soiled the area, they will go back to it. Did you do the pee pad or paper training? Chows naturally do not like to soil the area they live in.
3. Honestly, I wanted to scream :-x when you said Walter is tied up while you are gone. Is Walter being tied up because of the pee problem? Is he chewing up things? Why is he being tied up? If he needs to be contained while you are gone, then I would recommend crate training. Is it possible for you to block out an area or have him confined to a room for the day? You might set up a pee pad area. What does he have for entertainment during the day? Toys?
4. Most vets try to push the Royal Canin. My Chows and cats never liked the food vets prescribed. My Chows (and now my senior Chow and young GSD) are fed raw Green Tripe or canned grain free Wellness food, and Solid Gold Hunden Flockin kibble.
Is this your first dog? Why did you choose a Chow Chow?
Karen, Kohana, Takoda, and our Chow Angels Nahkohe and Shiloh

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Re: Bad behavior of Walter

Postby Rory's Dad » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:07 pm

I'll run through a few recommendations based on what you have posted...

1. The walks. 1st off, shorten the leash. Choke down on it until you are right on top and have complete control. This will get more difficult as he gets stronger, so best to correct now. When he pulls, STOP. He needs to learn that he will get where he wants to go by going easy. If you have control of a 'short' leash, he will learn that he is making no progress and will realize calm is better. It will take some time. Keep some small, pea sized treats with you. After you stop and he recognizes that you are in command of the walk, have him stand at your knee and give him the treat. Resume the walk with him on the short leash at your side. Be consistent and firm. You may only get 1/2 a block in the beginning, but he will get it.

2. Most likely, you are not getting the 'spots' completely clean. Dogs have a much greater sense of smell than we do, and likely there is a residue there. Also, assess those spots. I have indoor/outdoor carpet on my front porch. Until I figured out that this was confusing my dogs I wondered what the problem was. They thought it was grass and was a 'good to go' area. On our walks, I would repeat the same area over and over again. Teach the dog that this is the spot. Encourage him when successful and reward with those same treats. After he's "Done", do the exercise portion of the walk.

3. He will get used to the walks as being part of normal life. Hyper mode is not unusual. He likes the walks and the time spent with you. He also likes exploring, checking out the new smells, etc. That's why making the 1st part of the walk the 'business' part works. Once that is done, he can be free to enjoy a nice, controlled walk...at your pace, not his. And onto Crate Training...Varying opinions on that, but in essence, you are teaching a pup that the crate is his home. Chows are naturally clean dogs. They do not want to soil their home. So, for training, they are crated when alone in the home. When you return, you immediately take them outside for 'business'. They learn the routine and wait until they are let out to an area not their home. Another benefit is they don't have free roam of the house to chew items they shouldn't have. Many dogs actually find the crate situation as a safety zone. Some never get fully comfortable with it. I find it a successful training tool, but can see others views as well.

4. Food. If the vet tests show no issues, its just a Chow being picky. As long as its a good quality food, I wouldn't give in to his behavior. He won't starve himself and will eat what he needs. I wouldn't offer other options. Place the food in his bowl and allow him to eat when hungry. Don't let it go beyond a full day or two, but he should be fine.

In summary, you have a 6 month old dog. You are going to have to work with him and train him how to behave properly. Seems to me, he thinks he is in charge, and looking at the issues, he is. He is controlling the walks, peeing where he wants, and picking his own food. The behavior is correctable for sure, but you need to take charge and teach him what is acceptable. And by the way, I wouldn't expect a six month old dog to wait 8 to 10 hours between trips outdoors.

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Re: Bad behavior of Walter

Postby Rory's Dad » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:13 pm

I am also kind of surprised that you were looking for a dog to be a stress reliever. Sure its nice to come home and pet the dog or let him sit on your lap to watch tv, but dogs are work regardless of the breed. Especially puppies. Did the breeder interview you?

Since you now have a pup, your expectations need to be adjusted. To have a well adjusted and well behaved dog, you are going to have to train him. We can offer advice, but you may want to consider in person training with a professional who understands Chows.

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Re: Bad behavior of Walter

Postby 612guy » Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:43 pm

I second what Rory's Dad said.... first half of the walk let him have fun and allow him to run around as much as he likes. Than the second half make him heel or walk beside you. This works best if your walk is to a point and then turn around to come home. Then when you get back home let him run around some to reward him and make it a positive experience. You could start with the last block of your walk and build it up as time goes to. To stop the pulling you have to stop and make him stay besides you and then continue. Never hit or yell at him because that will do more harm than good. Remember to make it fun for him and praise him with "good boy".

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Re: Bad behavior of Walter

Postby kevindd992002 » Tue Jul 14, 2015 11:44 pm

kingalls wrote:Hi,
1. Harness/Collar: The harness basically tells the Chow he can drag or pull you. Use the collar. Is it a flat or rolled collar? The rolled is better for a rough coat. When on your walk, if Walter starts to pull, stop the walk. My Nahkohe was always trying to pull/run. I would stop the walk and when we start again, I would tell him "Walk!". Perhaps a professional trainer would use a different command but "Walk" would work for us. It takes a few times for them to get it. Sometimes Nahkohe's legs would actually be "quivering" because he really wanted to run but knew the walk would stop if he pulled.
2. The pee areas must be thoroughly cleaned to remove the scent. Once they have soiled the area, they will go back to it. Did you do the pee pad or paper training? Chows naturally do not like to soil the area they live in.
3. Honestly, I wanted to scream :-x when you said Walter is tied up while you are gone. Is Walter being tied up because of the pee problem? Is he chewing up things? Why is he being tied up? If he needs to be contained while you are gone, then I would recommend crate training. Is it possible for you to block out an area or have him confined to a room for the day? You might set up a pee pad area. What does he have for entertainment during the day? Toys?
4. Most vets try to push the Royal Canin. My Chows and cats never liked the food vets prescribed. My Chows (and now my senior Chow and young GSD) are fed raw Green Tripe or canned grain free Wellness food, and Solid Gold Hunden Flockin kibble.
Is this your first dog? Why did you choose a Chow Chow?


1.) I was right to go away with using a harness then. I'm using a flat one. If a rolled collar is better, I'm going to look for one. Are there any criteria that I need to follow when choosing a rolled collar or will a generic one do just fine? When we walk, I try to do that, I try to stop the walk but he's very persistent and would bark all over. When stopping the walk, how long should I force him to stop until we start walking again? I would think Walter knows that if he starts pulling then I would stop the walk but he still does it anyway. It just seems that he doesn't care.

2.) I'm cleaning them thoroughly. I'm using Zonrox bleach mixed with water and use a mop to clean the pee areas. I would say the scent is removed by that. I tried using the tray that comes with his crate, put newspaper on it, and use it as his pee area but he doesn't seem to get it. He even tries chewing on the newspaper. Should I start using those liquid puppy trainer?

3.) Now I want to kick myself for doing that then! It's been like this since he was 3 months and I did not know it was not right to tie him up alone :( He's being tied up partly because of the pee problem, yes, but mostly because he's chewing up on things. How do I start crate training? His crate is here but is mostly used when transporting him when going home to my province. I would love to use it to crate train him though. Since I live in a condo, blocking out an area is kind of the last option because of the limited space I have. A crate would take up space, yes, but I would prefer to set it up that way unless the blocking out an area option is better? I also can't confine him in a room because of the pee/chew issue. He is tied in the common area now and I already removed things from that area that he can chew up on, so technically I can leave him wandering off alone in that area if it's at all recommended. Btw, he sometimes also scratches and chews on the wood railings on the floor of my area and that is another problem that I'm trying to avoid. I give him Nylabones as entertainment, he loves them but would stop chewing when it's too much already. I have a Puppy Kong at my disposal but I really haven't started using it as I still don't know how. He likes peanut butter but not as much as he likes his treats.

4.) With that said, what do you suggest I do with the food problem Walter is facing? Yes, this is my first dog and I picked a Chow simply because of how cute they are. Most people also wonder why I choose this breed as my first dog but I think I can manage as long as I'm guide to the right direction.

Rory's Dad wrote:I'll run through a few recommendations based on what you have posted...

1. The walks. 1st off, shorten the leash. Choke down on it until you are right on top and have complete control. This will get more difficult as he gets stronger, so best to correct now. When he pulls, STOP. He needs to learn that he will get where he wants to go by going easy. If you have control of a 'short' leash, he will learn that he is making no progress and will realize calm is better. It will take some time. Keep some small, pea sized treats with you. After you stop and he recognizes that you are in command of the walk, have him stand at your knee and give him the treat. Resume the walk with him on the short leash at your side. Be consistent and firm. You may only get 1/2 a block in the beginning, but he will get it.

2. Most likely, you are not getting the 'spots' completely clean. Dogs have a much greater sense of smell than we do, and likely there is a residue there. Also, assess those spots. I have indoor/outdoor carpet on my front porch. Until I figured out that this was confusing my dogs I wondered what the problem was. They thought it was grass and was a 'good to go' area. On our walks, I would repeat the same area over and over again. Teach the dog that this is the spot. Encourage him when successful and reward with those same treats. After he's "Done", do the exercise portion of the walk.

3. He will get used to the walks as being part of normal life. Hyper mode is not unusual. He likes the walks and the time spent with you. He also likes exploring, checking out the new smells, etc. That's why making the 1st part of the walk the 'business' part works. Once that is done, he can be free to enjoy a nice, controlled walk...at your pace, not his. And onto Crate Training...Varying opinions on that, but in essence, you are teaching a pup that the crate is his home. Chows are naturally clean dogs. They do not want to soil their home. So, for training, they are crated when alone in the home. When you return, you immediately take them outside for 'business'. They learn the routine and wait until they are let out to an area not their home. Another benefit is they don't have free roam of the house to chew items they shouldn't have. Many dogs actually find the crate situation as a safety zone. Some never get fully comfortable with it. I find it a successful training tool, but can see others views as well.

4. Food. If the vet tests show no issues, its just a Chow being picky. As long as its a good quality food, I wouldn't give in to his behavior. He won't starve himself and will eat what he needs. I wouldn't offer other options. Place the food in his bowl and allow him to eat when hungry. Don't let it go beyond a full day or two, but he should be fine.

In summary, you have a 6 month old dog. You are going to have to work with him and train him how to behave properly. Seems to me, he thinks he is in charge, and looking at the issues, he is. He is controlling the walks, peeing where he wants, and picking his own food. The behavior is correctable for sure, but you need to take charge and teach him what is acceptable. And by the way, I wouldn't expect a six month old dog to wait 8 to 10 hours between trips outdoors.


1.) That's what I was thinking, it would be harder to correct it when he's an adult. How short is short when the leash is concerned? The leash he has now is a metal one and I consider it long. I try rewarding him treats when peeing and pooping in the grass area while we are walking but he doesn't care about the treats (even though he sees his favorite one) when he is outside. He just gets very excited to run when he is outside and doesn't care about anything. What do I do to let him recognize that I'm rewarding him, by giving him a treat, for a good walk behavior?

2.) Does that mean that the Zonrox bleach I'm using is not enough to clean the scent off of his indoor pee areas? There are no carpets in my environment and it's all tiles, so no problem with that. I always made sure to teach him the spot when we go outside and he knows. When we go out, that spot is the first area he will run to and do his thing there. It's just that he does the same when I leave him wandering around inside. When he wants to pee, he goes to those indoor areas and will do his thing. At least this does not happen too often with pooing as he has a good grasp that he only needs to poo when he's in the grass area outside (though there are still very seldom accidents on this). How about the behavior where he pees in the grass area outside while slowly walking, what does that entail? When he does that, some of his pee gets splashed in the bottom area of his feet and I would want to avoid that, of course.

3.) Exactly, I want to be in control of the pace when we are walking and it doesn't seem to be happening currently. I want him to recognize that I'm the Alpha during the walk. I'll see what I can do and hopefully he gets it along the way. I'll start crate training him then. Can I start by just having him follow a treat to the inside of the crate and lock him there when I leave him alone? Mostly, I'm out of the house 11-12 hours a day because of work. Can he hold off his peeing for that period of time? When in the crate, I install a water bottle dispenser (like this one: http://image.dhgate.com/albu_248830395_00/1.0x0.jpg) in it but he doesn't seem to know how to use it when he's thirsty. He's accustomed to drinking off water from a water bowl and he drinks a lot. Are those dispensers useful at all for chows in crates?

4.) That's what I though, he's just really being picky. Well, when I leave the food bowl and he doesn't want it he does the nose push and sometimes the kibble falls off the bowl and will scatter all over the place. When he does this, should I intentionally make him starve until his next meal? I feed him twice a day, btw. What do you mean by "Don't let it go beyond a full day or two, but he should be fine."?

I got that. I just need to show him that I should be in charge. I'll follow your recommendations and will report back. Oops, you beat me to the hours interval between trips outdoors. I don't have any choice because of work, it's really usually 11 hours (travel time plus 9 hours in work). Wouldn't him peeing in his crate do any good? He has a tray that catches the pee but I would think it is preferred not to let him pee in the crate so that he doesn't get accustomed to doing that. What else can I do then if I have no choice between the intervals of outdoor trips?

Rory's Dad wrote:I am also kind of surprised that you were looking for a dog to be a stress reliever. Sure its nice to come home and pet the dog or let him sit on your lap to watch tv, but dogs are work regardless of the breed. Especially puppies. Did the breeder interview you?

Since you now have a pup, your expectations need to be adjusted. To have a well adjusted and well behaved dog, you are going to have to train him. We can offer advice, but you may want to consider in person training with a professional who understands Chows.


I guess I have to change my mindset then. I live in the Philippines and breeders don't usually care as long as they sell dogs. I mean, yes, he asked me some questions and he seems to be knowledgeable enough and he mentioned that his dogs are a stress reliever for him. I guess it's because he's already an expert in handling dogs.

When you say in person training with a professional, are there professionals that usually go to your house and train the pup together with you?

612guy wrote:I second what Rory's Dad said.... first half of the walk let him have fun and allow him to run around as much as he likes. Than the second half make him heel or walk beside you. This works best if your walk is to a point and then turn around to come home. Then when you get back home let him run around some to reward him and make it a positive experience. You could start with the last block of your walk and build it up as time goes to. To stop the pulling you have to stop and make him stay besides you and then continue. Never hit or yell at him because that will do more harm than good. Remember to make it fun for him and praise him with "good boy".

612


Gotcha. Are Chows usually on a leash during walks? Or can they be free to run around and eventually will come back to you? Since I live in a condo environment, cars are everywhere and I'm afraid that Walter can get run over because of his hyper attitude when outside.

EDIT: I forgot to add two more minor bad behavior. Please see below:

5.) Walter barks at the door when he hears someone approaching it. Should I let this be or should I stop it? He also barks when I stop the walk, as I've mentioned in my original post.

6.) He still does play biting. When does this usually stop? I posted a few months back and was told that around 6 months this would eventually stop.

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Re: Bad behavior of Walter

Postby Rory's Dad » Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:35 pm

1. You can use the leash you have. Just put more of it behind your hand and let it drag. If he is not in control, let him have about a foot, maybe two so you are right on top of the collar. When you stop, stop until he is back in control and not trying to lunge ahead. This could be 10 seconds or a minute. Varies by dog, but you need to show him he is not going anywhere until its the speed you want him at.

2. Given that it's tile, you may be cleaning just fine. I would then lean toward the fact that he just can't wait that long. Same with the crate training. At 6 months he just cant wait 11 hours...could you?...lol? Some dogs will get the water feeders, some won't. I would consider a water bucket that just hangs in the crate. Usually stainless steel with a handle that just hangs off the grate with a buckle clip.

3. Don't trick him into the crate with a treat. He will figure it out and not go in. Make it a positive. You can throw the treat in, but then give him something to do, a toy or a chew. Talk to him and make him comfortable. Start with short periods while you are home.

4. I mean he should be good being picky for a day or so. But if he doesn't eat for longer than that, then you should reconsider. He may be allergic to a certain food and avoids it for a legitimate reason. Or the food may really just not be to his liking. Since he is still young, he can still eat puppy formula. What did the breeder use?

Even for an adult dogs, 11 hours is a lot to ask. Maybe a dog walker? Peeing in the crate is not a great alternative for the dog, although is might be better for you. The concept of the crate is to identify his space, and a Chow will not want to soil his space. If not a walker, then maybe consider a litter type area similar to what cats have.

Yes, trainers will come to your house, but I think you available time is more of an issue. For a dog that is essentially alone 11 hours a day, then goes out for a walk, and then I would assume you sleep, socialization becomes an issue. He needs to be introduced to other dogs and people. Perhaps a group puppy class for basic manners and play time. Barking at the door isn't bad, he is identifying unusual sounds or situations. You can stop that if you need through reassurance (not scolding), but its also part of the socializing thing. He should be learning what is normal, and what isn't. Discourage any play biting! What might be cute as a pup becomes dangerous as an adult dog. While puppy teeth are sharp, they aren't all that strong. Adult teeth are both sharp and come with an impressive bite strength behind them. He needs to know that using his teeth on anything not food or an acceptable toy/chew is not allowed.

Finally, perhaps the breeder is an experienced chow owner, but above everything else he is a salesman. They will rose color everything about their litter and omit any of the negatives. It's what they do. With chows, they will tell you how clean they are and how easy they are to train. Both are true, but require some experience and some work. They don't come trained or socialized, and will challenge you if allowed to.

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Re: Bad behavior of Walter

Postby kevindd992002 » Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:08 pm

Rory's Dad wrote:1. You can use the leash you have. Just put more of it behind your hand and let it drag. If he is not in control, let him have about a foot, maybe two so you are right on top of the collar. When you stop, stop until he is back in control and not trying to lunge ahead. This could be 10 seconds or a minute. Varies by dog, but you need to show him he is not going anywhere until its the speed you want him at.

2. Given that it's tile, you may be cleaning just fine. I would then lean toward the fact that he just can't wait that long. Same with the crate training. At 6 months he just cant wait 11 hours...could you?...lol? Some dogs will get the water feeders, some won't. I would consider a water bucket that just hangs in the crate. Usually stainless steel with a handle that just hangs off the grate with a buckle clip.

3. Don't trick him into the crate with a treat. He will figure it out and not go in. Make it a positive. You can throw the treat in, but then give him something to do, a toy or a chew. Talk to him and make him comfortable. Start with short periods while you are home.

4. I mean he should be good being picky for a day or so. But if he doesn't eat for longer than that, then you should reconsider. He may be allergic to a certain food and avoids it for a legitimate reason. Or the food may really just not be to his liking. Since he is still young, he can still eat puppy formula. What did the breeder use?

Even for an adult dogs, 11 hours is a lot to ask. Maybe a dog walker? Peeing in the crate is not a great alternative for the dog, although is might be better for you. The concept of the crate is to identify his space, and a Chow will not want to soil his space. If not a walker, then maybe consider a litter type area similar to what cats have.

Yes, trainers will come to your house, but I think you available time is more of an issue. For a dog that is essentially alone 11 hours a day, then goes out for a walk, and then I would assume you sleep, socialization becomes an issue. He needs to be introduced to other dogs and people. Perhaps a group puppy class for basic manners and play time. Barking at the door isn't bad, he is identifying unusual sounds or situations. You can stop that if you need through reassurance (not scolding), but its also part of the socializing thing. He should be learning what is normal, and what isn't. Discourage any play biting! What might be cute as a pup becomes dangerous as an adult dog. While puppy teeth are sharp, they aren't all that strong. Adult teeth are both sharp and come with an impressive bite strength behind them. He needs to know that using his teeth on anything not food or an acceptable toy/chew is not allowed.

Finally, perhaps the breeder is an experienced chow owner, but above everything else he is a salesman. They will rose color everything about their litter and omit any of the negatives. It's what they do. With chows, they will tell you how clean they are and how easy they are to train. Both are true, but require some experience and some work. They don't come trained or socialized, and will challenge you if allowed to.


1.) Since his leash is metal along its length and somewhat leather on the handle portion only, putting more of it behind my hand usually hurts when Walter pulls it back. I'll search for a new one so I wouldn't have a hard time in walking him. That goes the same with buying a new rolled collar because the one uses is a flat one.

2.) That's what I thought, 11 hours is just too long for him. But if it's night time, wouldn't that be a different scenario because that's more sleep time for him anyway? He's a power drinker and I'd think that a hanging water bucket will hold a few cups of water to will not be enough for him but if it's just for the purpose of lasting him during the night then I think that won't hurt, will it? Or is it important that abundance of water is always available to dogs?

3.) When doing crate training and making it positive, can I already start closing the crate door when he's playing inside? Or should I do it in baby steps of just letting him go in by himself, keeping the door opened, and let him decide if he wants to stay inside or not? Usually when the door is opened, he comes in, gets his bone, and immediately goes out of the crate to play.

4.) If he doesn't eat his first meal during the morning, he does it his second and last meal for the day during the night. He doesn't have any choice so I'm thinking he is just really hard-headed and showing dislike towards his current food. If he does this everyday, what would I need to do? In the past, it's always been two meals a day. I think the vet used Vitality when Walter was a small pup.

What's a " litter type area"? Would that be an area that would be inside his crate also? Or is this something that is outside of the crate?

Ok, I'll see what training programs I can avail of. Yes, I think he's really missing some socialization because of how my schedule works. I'll make sure to address this though.

How do I discourage play biting? I always try telling him NO when does that but sometimes he's just really persistent.

That's exactly what the breeder is. He's a friend of my colleague at work so I don't know him too well. There was a point that I got tired of asking things from him because he doesn't seem to value after-sales questions.

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Re: Bad behavior of Walter

Postby chunkymonkeys » Thu Jul 16, 2015 3:49 am

I'm so glad for your and Walter's sake you are asking for help here! Honestly, you are getting such quality, expert advice for FREE. While you are heeding this priceless advice, perhaps you should be also thinking about whether you and Walter are really a good fit in this time of your life. Your workday is long (whose isn't), and Walter is a puppy, and they have a lot of energy! Boo Boo used to zoom around the house, and literally bounce off the couch backs when he was a pup. Then when he was a teen (1-2 years) he tested me at every turn, and his sister Shima was just as rebellious. Mull it over; my Chunky Monkeys are high maintenance, but my work schedule is more flexible than yours is right now...

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Re: Bad behavior of Walter

Postby kevindd992002 » Thu Jul 16, 2015 4:10 am

chunkymonkeys wrote:I'm so glad for your and Walter's sake you are asking for help here! Honestly, you are getting such quality, expert advice for FREE. While you are heeding this priceless advice, perhaps you should be also thinking about whether you and Walter are really a good fit in this time of your life. Your workday is long (whose isn't), and Walter is a puppy, and they have a lot of energy! Boo Boo used to zoom around the house, and literally bounce off the couch backs when he was a pup. Then when he was a teen (1-2 years) he tested me at every turn, and his sister Shima was just as rebellious. Mull it over; my Chunky Monkeys are high maintenance, but my work schedule is more flexible than yours is right now...


Thanks for the advice. I did mull over already but my decision is firm to continue taking care of him. There's always a way around everything. For now, it's just my target to remedy some of his bad behavior. Don't get me wrong though, I'd always like Walter's high energy but he must know his limits.

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Re: Bad behavior of Walter

Postby kingalls » Thu Jul 16, 2015 2:40 pm

Either online or a good pet supply place have the fake lawn for dogs to use for their "business" when indoors. I'm not sure if they are big enough for a Chow. My first Chow seemed to come already trained - I barely remember how she figured out to bark when she needed to be let outside. Chow #2 was somewhat trained. He had access to the garage where I set down newspaper for his pee area. He used that for the longest time and then at some point he learned to wait until morning. My GSD seemed to learn quickly but had several accidents for the first 4 -5 months. I would get out of bed by 5 - 5:30 AM and let him out to do his business. While he was in training, I used pee pads - first the boxed liner type and then the washable pads I bought through Amazon.
Play biting...Chow #2 did that and it seemed harmless but I was quickly advised by this forum to not encourage it. A loud squeal was recommended. I would do the squeal and then walk away from him to let him know I did not like it.
Also, as a note regarding their mouths. You need to get him used to you being able to check out his mouth. In such times he may have picked something up that is not good for him you should be able to open his mouth and extract it without a fuss. My GSD is terrible about picking up things. I make him sit and literally scoop out (sometimes quite far back into his mouth) what he has picked up - things like cooked chicken bones which is really bad for them (any cooked bone is not good because they can splinter).
Being able to touch their paws is a good thing as well. In general my Chows did/do not like their paws touched but if they had a thorn or something bothering them, they let me touch it and make it better.
As you are away for a long work day, do you have a "stay at home" friend or family member that can "dog-sit" him for the day?
Karen, Kohana, Takoda, and our Chow Angels Nahkohe and Shiloh

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Re: Bad behavior of Walter

Postby kevindd992002 » Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:40 am

The fake lawns I can get locally are very cheap (http://i00.i.aliimg.com/wsphoto/v0/1602 ... rainer.jpg). When looking at it personally, it seems very low quality and would think that Watler will just chew up on that and know that it is fake. I just bought a plastic toilet tray for him that you can sandwich newspapers in it plus a liquid potty trainer and see how that combination works for him.

For play biting, I usually say a firm NO to him but seems to have no effect. When you do a loud squeal, do you let him see that you're scared of his bite while going away?

I haven't had problems touching his paws, tail, and head but he doesn't want his teeth brushed. I'm trying to do baby steps by massing his gums and outer portion of the teeth with my hands and he doesn't like it. What's the right way to do this?

@Rory's Dad

Were you able to read up on my post above for my pending questions?

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Re: Bad behavior of Walter

Postby kingalls » Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:03 pm

We don't have experience with the fake lawn thing but mentioned it in case it might help you.
As for doing the squeal thing, I would just do the loud squeal and walk away. No way would I show fear - just that I was done with that "play" and was not going to let that happen again.
I've never brushed my Chows teeth but I made sure that I could remove items from their mouth. With Shiloh, she is a very stubborn Chow with pills. Most of the time I can hide the pill in food but when that doesn't work, I actually am able to open her mouth and put the pills into the back and make her swallow. With my Chowboy I could easily touch/massage his gums - didn't do the brushing teeth thing. I think it's important to be able to touch their mouths in case they pick up something you need to get out of their mouths. We've encountered situations where they would pick up a cooked chicken bone out of the bushes and need to extract it immediately.
Hope that helps.
Karen, Kohana, Takoda, and our Chow Angels Nahkohe and Shiloh

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Re: Bad behavior of Walter

Postby kevindd992002 » Tue Jul 21, 2015 4:14 pm

Got it.

My main concern now is Walter's food intake. He goes for a day to a day and a half without eating and then eats his kibble with a mix of homemade liver gravy and then starts the cycle all over again. This means that he's really not eating enough!

He was given this morning his food and he started pushing his food bowl with his nose after 5 seconds of sniffing it. The vet recommended not to give in and not to change his kibble but what else can I do? It's been a few weeks since he started this behavior.

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Re: Bad behavior of Walter

Postby Pinoy51 » Fri Jul 31, 2015 12:49 am

My Chows and I are also living in the Philippines too.
I'm known in this forum for being straight out about providing leadership for you dogs, exercise and then affection.
Chows are high maintenance dogs in many aspects and you just can't provide to Walter what he needs.
You're not providing for your dog, as you're mostly absent, therefore he is adding to your stress.
He is bored to death, that's what's causing the chewing and the hyper behavoir during walks.
Although Chows are relative low energy dogs, compared to runners like Huskies, they do need playtime and runtime, and most of all, they need mental stimulance.
The food behavior is related to being bored as well, no exercise no stimulance to eat.
The inside peeing is surely a result of being alone so long too. I wonder how much is he barking once you're away.
I agree with Chunkymonkey, a Chow is just not compatible with your life style right now.
No matter how much you wish he would be the perfect companion, in the situation you created for him, he can't deliver on that and you're getting more and more frustrated, which makes things worse.
Chows are good in picking up the energy around them. If you're negative, they're negative.
We're renovating the house right now, oh boy I got the bad looks and barks from everyone about the chaos I created.
There is a lot of tension right now among the pack due to the noise and the fact that the ususal spaces they play and hang-out are cluttered with construction materials.
If he get's older you might run into more serious problems due to lack of socialization. Aggressiveness towards other dogs and strangers will most likely set-in. You can read about incidents with Chows who are not socialized everywhere, biting incidents are very common.
Let's face it, you should have picked a cat as companion being in a condo and away most of the time. Or you need to at least provide a day care for Walter.
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Re: Bad behavior of Walter

Postby kevindd992002 » Fri Jul 31, 2015 2:03 am

How much playtime does he need?

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Re: Bad behavior of Walter

Postby Pinoy51 » Sat Aug 01, 2015 7:47 am

Depends on age, Joey our youngster is 4.5month, he is playing his whole wake time. Simba is 4 years has adopted Joey and therefore is playing several hours now. The two girls are taking over if Simba gets tired or anoyed.
Most important for every Chow is being part of the pack. Where the pack leader is he wants to be.
If he doesn't recognize a leader, a Chow takes over and that what you're experience. The stubbornness of the Chow becomes anoying as he doesn't listen to you at all. He does literally what he wants and the older he gets the more problems will appear. I'm the leader for my pack I make the rules and the four guys have to follow.
While I'm away for work the pack has a care taker and they have the whole outdoor area of the house for them.
No cage, no leash. The care taker keeps on enforcing the rules while I'm away.
When I come home I spend time with them, they stay with us in the living room. At about 10pm they go for their last potty and then go to sleep. Their sleeping quarters are about 50 sqm, with cooling fan and access to water.
On weekends we bring them by car to walking areas, so they see other dogs and strangers.
I practise NILIF with them, Nothing In Life Is Free. They need to sit for their food, they have to give high five for a treat, they go out last for a walk.
It takes a lot of dedication to educate a Chow properly and provide for his needs.
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Re: Bad behavior of Walter

Postby kevindd992002 » Wed Aug 12, 2015 5:50 pm

I tried using a shorter leash to teach Walter how to not "pull on the leash". He seems to still do it regardless and since he wears a collar he loses his breath doing so and yet he still doesn't stop from doing it. Is this normal or should I be worried? I'm kinda worried because you really can hear him having a hard time breathing when he's pulling on the leash as if you're hearing one who has asthma!

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Re: Bad behavior of Walter

Postby kevindd992002 » Tue Aug 18, 2015 4:48 pm

BUMP! Any help here?

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Re: Bad behavior of Walter

Postby kingalls » Sun Aug 23, 2015 5:50 pm

When Walter pulls, stop the walk. If he pulls again when you restart the walk, stop the walk. He needs to know that if he pulls, the walk stops - period! Nahkohe's legs would quiver because he wanted to pull but understood that the walk would stop if he pulled again.
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Re: Bad behavior of Walter

Postby kevindd992002 » Sun Aug 23, 2015 7:06 pm

kingalls wrote:When Walter pulls, stop the walk. If he pulls again when you restart the walk, stop the walk. He needs to know that if he pulls, the walk stops - period! Nahkohe's legs would quiver because he wanted to pull but understood that the walk would stop if he pulled again.


That's exactly what I'm doing but it seems to have no effect on him.

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Re: Bad behavior of Walter

Postby Zhuyos mom » Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:13 pm

kevindd992002 wrote:I tried using a shorter leash to teach Walter how to not "pull on the leash". He seems to still do it regardless and since he wears a collar he loses his breath doing so and yet he still doesn't stop from doing it. Is this normal or should I be worried? I'm kinda worried because you really can hear him having a hard time breathing when he's pulling on the leash as if you're hearing one who has asthma!


Yes. You should be worried. You could damage his vocal cords if he keeps up with this behavior. Get a gentle leader head collar or easy walk/gentle leader harness and see if that will help you communicate to him when he needs to slow down or stop when you say so.

You really should try to find an experienced trainer in your country. Ideally, one who knows chow chows, as they are apparently no longer a unique breed. There are many members of this forum who are from the Philippines. Reach out to them via PM. You already have Pinoy51's attention. Reach out to others like Constantina, Cam Atis, AngelEyes (spelling of their handles may not be accurate). They may be able to provide you with names of trainers or might even be close enough to you where you can have a play date with their chow. Use the search feature, type in Phillipines and scroll down the posts, read and find members who might be near you.

Crate training is a good thing. Try it. Walter may actually need a place like a crate to settle himself down. He's young so he'll need to learn the crate is his safe place, a safe place for him to get peace and a safe place for you to tell him to go to when guests arrive, or in a current situation, when the door bell rings and he starts barking. Train him to go to the crate instead of barking at the door. That is definitely a behavior you want to nip in the bud while he is young. I'm with kingalls about tethering your chow to a metal pole inside.

Honestly, since this is your first dog, you need to invest in training for yourself. Don't take it the wrong way. I did it when I first got Zhuyo. He went to puppy kindergarten and I got trained because his teacher focused on the parents more than the dogs all through out the program. The parents needed to learn the basics before they could train their own dogs. For the record, I have had the best behaved and most cherished chows (my own chows, the chows I have fostered and the chows who are with me as sanctuary fosters) because I was taught properly.

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Re: Bad behavior of Walter

Postby Sirchow » Mon Aug 24, 2015 12:49 pm

My first thought was I wonder how long your baby puppy is spending alone. I admit I didn't read all the posts but I did see 11 hours. I dont mean to be horrible but I refuse to sell puppies to people who were out the house longer than four to five hours a day. When mine went to a new home they were fed four times a day and had free run of the outdoors when ever they wanted and were fully house trained by me before they left for their new homes. I think this is the root of the problem and you need to think about at least one toilet trip and play time in the middle of the day...a dog walker or a relative or friend. I still think this is an awful lot of time to spend alone for a baby. I wouldn't even leave my grown chows longer than eight hours.

I also think you need a much better quality puppy food. I use taste of the wild. It is a proper food with no grains in it. Then when you puppy picks and doesn't eat much it is getting good quality in what it does eat. I wish that breeders would not be so money orientated and would think more of the welfare of the dogs they sell then the owners would know what they were really getting into and would be able to decide if a puppy was really the best animal to have in their life. Puppies are very hard work but they do get easier. Good luck with training but one word of caution please only use a positive reinforcement trainer...no Caeser Millan style prodding and hissing or you puppy will learn to do the same back!
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Re: Bad behavior of Walter

Postby kevindd992002 » Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:27 pm

Sirchow wrote:My first thought was I wonder how long your baby puppy is spending alone. I admit I didn't read all the posts but I did see 11 hours. I dont mean to be horrible but I refuse to sell puppies to people who were out the house longer than four to five hours a day. When mine went to a new home they were fed four times a day and had free run of the outdoors when ever they wanted and were fully house trained by me before they left for their new homes. I think this is the root of the problem and you need to think about at least one toilet trip and play time in the middle of the day...a dog walker or a relative or friend. I still think this is an awful lot of time to spend alone for a baby. I wouldn't even leave my grown chows longer than eight hours.

I also think you need a much better quality puppy food. I use taste of the wild. It is a proper food with no grains in it. Then when you puppy picks and doesn't eat much it is getting good quality in what it does eat. I wish that breeders would not be so money orientated and would think more of the welfare of the dogs they sell then the owners would know what they were really getting into and would be able to decide if a puppy was really the best animal to have in their life. Puppies are very hard work but they do get easier. Good luck with training but one word of caution please only use a positive reinforcement trainer...no Caeser Millan style prodding and hissing or you puppy will learn to do the same back!


Thanks. I completely understand where you're coming from. I make it to a point to have Walter have the best that I can offer. Starting last June up to around the end of September, my sister is in the house with Walter during the nights so he is not alone. This setup will not last forever though. As of now, I can leave him roaming around my condo unit just fine without him destroying things (I make sure he doesn't reach anything he can bite on). When it inevitably comes to the normal setup that he is alone during the night again, what can I do more to make him not bored?

As you all know, it's harder to raise a pup in a condo environment. It's different for every country, I guess. Most breeders here don't "interview" their buyers. You can't really blame me as this is my first dog also but I do the most I can.

Regarding the food, Hollistic puppy food is known to be a high-quality food here in the Philippines. Do you recommend taste of the wild his main puppy food? What do you mean by "Then when you puppy picks and doesn't eat much it is getting good quality in what it does eat."?

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Re: Bad behavior of Walter

Postby 612guy » Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:17 am

You still seem to have trouble walking and controlling Walter. It's not as uncommon as you think. Brutus never had much of an issue with pulling but our 2 previous did. When I took them to training class the instructor suggested a pinch collar. I believe that is what you need because if he pulls, it will pinch him and he will stop. It will be very good for control around your condo too. I've seen them use on big strong dogs that the owners would have no chance to control without them.

What ever you do don't quit trying.

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