Need advice on fear aggression related attacks.

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Ingen
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Need advice on fear aggression related attacks.

Post by Ingen »

Hi,

I have an almost 3 years old chow chow (spayed) and a 3.5 years old japanese spitz (spayed). I had my spitz a year before I got my chow and they have been doing well for almost two years. They didn't start off well though, my spitz constantly fight with my chow when she was just 4-5months old (Spitz was bigger size then), and things started to tone down after 6 months or so, occasional rough play fights still happens.

They are fine if nothing freaks my chow out, they seldom lay side by side, probably giving each other the space they need and my chow chow will at time give a stare or low growl and my spitz will walk up lift her leg and let my chow smell her. My chow is twice the size of my spitz now, talk about reversal of roles.

I reckon mine is fear aggression as my chow will attack my Japanese Spitz if there are sudden loud noise like thunder or if something freaks her out. The funny thing is, my chow is only aggressive towards my spitz and never towards my wife and I or any guests in the house

About 4 months ago out of a sudden my chow attacked my japanese spitz in the middle of a thundery night when all were sleeping, leaving two puncture wounds on her back which require stitching.

After that incident, I have those baby gates installed to keep them separated at night and when we are out and only have them together when we are around.

Whenever I leave my chow on the other side of the gate outside of my room, she will whine soundly (sort of like crying) and it has been 4 months now. I'm at a lost of how I can avoid such sudden incident from happening again and what I else can I do to resolve it totally. I hope to have both sleeping in the same room with us again in future.
Rory's Dad
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Re: Need advice on fear aggression related attacks.

Post by Rory's Dad »

I think you are in for a tough road. Both are now adults. There is no separation with one being a pup and the other not. Some of that early aggression may actually have come with standard puppy limits where one would end the play if it got too rough.

Probably not the case now. If the attacks on the other dog are fear motivated, then you could resort to comforting her. I have heard good results being reported from things like Thunder Shirts, etc. You would have to be able to know when those events are coming to some degree though.

It does happen that certain dogs just don't get along. They are from similar heritages (spitz breeds) and both being female doesnt help a lot.

I would try to work with them being in the same space (supervised). Make sure that they eat side by side. Ensure that they are not resource guarding by only giving them a 1/2 portion at each feeding and then reaching in to refill the bowls with the balance of their meal. Work their basic dogs skills (sit, stay, down, etc) side by side. Make sure to command each dog separately (Chow, sit, reward. Spitz, down, reward). Reintroduce them to proper behavior and working together.

My 2 chows need to be separated at times. I have 1 male and 1 female and neither are fixed since they show. They are not a mating pair, so we work on separation from each other and from family. Since we utilize the baby gates to ensure an unwanted mating session, they both need to be away from us at different times. They are both crate trained (needed for showing as well) and are comfortable in those environments. It takes some practice, some patience, and some treats to make sure they dont feel they are being punished.

Finally, you need to make sure it's not a power struggle. If you assert yourself as the leader then they should not be fighting for position (it doesnt sound like that's the issue). Dog logic can be confounding, but it might even be that the 'fear' attack is an attempt to prove braveness to the other.
Ingen
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Re: Need advice on fear aggression related attacks.

Post by Ingen »

I bought the thunder shirt, it was useful for the first two thundery weather and pretty useless now. They are fine most time, even eating together during meal time. My spitz gets aggressive with ribs or milk bones, but fine with main course (home cooked chicken/beef with brown rice).

Just a crazy thought, would bringing my chow outdoor under shelter during thundery weather helps :P ?
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Pinoy51
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Re: Need advice on fear aggression related attacks.

Post by Pinoy51 »

This kind of fear can only be addressed by you or a dog trainer with experience in those cases.
It is important that you're around in situations where the fear attack happens to re-assure that nothing bad is going to happen. In a way you need to de-sensitize your Chow. Similar to humans with fear.
I have seen a noise therapy by creating a sound room and exposing the dog to noise and at the same time reward and exercise. so negative energy can be worked out. Slowly, slowly (talking about several weeks with daily session the dog lost the fear and in the end even associated the noises with reward. He went tail up to his owner to pick up a treat on an active shooting range. In the beginning he wasn't even able to go near the shooting range.
Best regards
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Cam Atis
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Re: Need advice on fear aggression related attacks.

Post by Cam Atis »

Pinoy's advice seemed encouraging and if you can give it a try, that's best/. Play the thunderclap sounds recording which I think you can download from the internet and play it out loud in the room with a few sessions just you and the chow. and later you can introduce the spitz with you both. See if it helps

Personally, I thought it is unfortunate that the chow thinks that way. It is now upon you to let him know it is not the spitz that's mad at him but it is the sound of thunder during storms and he should be able to differentiate between the two sounds (Spitz growl and the thunderclaps). Dogs have acute hearing.
And dont make him feel unwanted by putting him outside while the spitz is with you. if you have to put him outside, put the spitz out too but have them separated by a division like interlink. dogs need company and assurance when feeling alone.
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Tippsy'smom
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Re: Need advice on fear aggression related attacks.

Post by Tippsy'smom »

Quite honestly, I don't know if this problem is fixable. It's not triggered by something you can really control. To me, if seems to me that it's something ingrained in your chow (probably associating the thunder as a growl, and since your spits has fought with her in the past, she thinks she's protecting herself). I personally don't know if you can reverse it.

I myself have have dogs that have to be separated. My chow mix and my pomeranian can't be around my dad's Rottweiler. And my mom's Yorkie can't be around those three either. The rottie hates both of them. My chow mix, Jasper, is indifferent. Everyone is cool by him. My pom on the other hand is only ok with my 2 mixes and my mom's chihuahua. It's a pain in the butt, but separating everyone is safer for everyone.

Some dogs just don't get along and won't, no matter how hard you try.
Jess
R.I.P. Cinder~1992-1994, Tippsy~9/00-4/11, Jasper~10/08-10/14, Todd~2/11-7/15
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Rory's Dad
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Re: Need advice on fear aggression related attacks.

Post by Rory's Dad »

What a great idea from Cam. A soundtrack to replicate the thunder sounds. It you started with lower volume and created a reassurance while building tolerance. Wow...nice one.
Ingen
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Re: Need advice on fear aggression related attacks.

Post by Ingen »

I probably would give the "Thunder" sound conditioning a try.

Thanks thanks, hope it will work over time.
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