Shedding?

[sashasayys]

Okay so, my dog Thor lost all of his undercoat (the lighter, fluffier fur). His top coat is still there, and it seems to be fine. He just looks tiny without his hair, and his beautiful tail is just not the same anymore.

He has also been very itchy. The vet said that he has yeast on his skin, and he just got done with his medicine two weeks ago. He's still seems to be very itchy, but his skin looks A LOT better. I would take him to the vet again, but so far i have taken him to 4 different vets and he's been put on SO many medications that it cannot be good for him. At first they said that he is allergic to grass (got 2 shots and was put on pills)... then they said it was the flowers (also more shots and pills). Eventually they said it was because he has fleas (he does not. i have never seen a flea on him and he is on frontline. They gave him different shots.). At this point i'm getting worried about his kidneys. It makes him stop eating, he loses all the energy and constantly sleeps. He just got back to normal and I dont want to do this to him anymore. Because i live in such a small town in Iowa, it is hard to find a vet that is actually educated... so i thought i'd ask you guys and see what you have to say.
He is one year old now. It is freezing here in Iowa, and I am afraid that he will get cold. What i want to know is, is this normal? Is he actually shedding or is this something else? Mange (he was shedding in patches, but his skin is fine. The doctor even made me shave his stomach so i could clean it and keep and eye on it because that is where he was itching the most.)? How long will it take for him to grow the bottom coat back? And if he is just shedding, is this how he's going to shed every year?

[christina chow mum]

Oh dear sashasayys, I do really sympathise, seems you have been given a total run around, expenses, time, patience stress and worry only to end up with a "guinea pig" instead of a Chow. (Funny..NOT!) I am not a Vet just a simple chow owner and can only put in my 10 cents worth about my Chow Ming. It is common for chows (and other long haired dogs) to shed (moult) their fur twice a year (Spring & Autumn). Most of this shedding is from the (under) coat. Ming has more or less finished losing his (under) fur and now got a really thick (outer) coat and mane like a lion plus a thick tail. All through the summer he had hardly any fur on his tail.

I mentioned in another similar post that a lot of this fur actually comes out on its own, it can be pulled out easily, comes out on the brush. Ming quite often pulls his fur out with his teeth himself, chasing himself around to get to it, coz (as my vet said) this moulting is quite "itchy" but perfectly "normal". With Ming I put olive oil on top of his food and mix it in for a shiny coat and healthy skin and bones. NO drugs except dermatitis ointment and a weak iodine solution for insect bites.

Most of the time, these tos and fros and quirks with our Chows are simply a matter of common sense, instinct and "watching" their behaviour. You seem to know your dog inside out and good for you
You also appear to have been through the gamut of the FDA so if I were you I would give all these drugs a miss and let his little body "rest" from these for awhile. They have so many side effects. One side effect may cause another ending up in a vicious circle and every vet has a different approach. This isn't fair to your Chowlie.
A very common ailment in Chows is dermatitis either as a red itchy rash. or from insect stings or showing up as bare "hot spots" on the skin caused by from stress, panic, scares, etc.

I wouldn't get stressed about him being cold with winter approaching. You know your stress can stress out your dog. They are very sensitive to what is happening with their owners. Even in Greece we had thick snow 6 years ago and I put a little woolly coat on Ming when we went walking. By origin and by nature Chows LOVE the winter, the cold and the snow!! Think about it...
Sorry I can't be of more help with this but am certain other Chow owners here will be able to help out as your chow can't be the only "guinea pig" in the pack, right?
Take care!

[Rory's Dad]

Christina hits on a very good point that it could be a normal molt. Chows will generally blow their coats 2x a year. If Thor is a puppy (and with a Chow coat at issue, consider that to be under 2 years of age).

That being said, a Chow without his proper coat is very susceptible to cold weather. The undercoat is what keeps them warm in winter and cool in summer (thus the molt). If he does not have proper double coating, you need to ensure that he isnt subjected to extreme temperatures.

[sashasayys]

Christina hits on a very good point that it could be a normal molt. Chows will generally blow their coats 2x a year. If Thor is a puppy (and with a Chow coat at issue, consider that to be under 2 years of age).

That being said, a Chow without his proper coat is very susceptible to cold weather. The undercoat is what keeps them warm in winter and cool in summer (thus the molt). If he does not have proper double coating, you need to ensure that he isnt subjected to extreme temperatures.

If his coat doesn't come back before the real cold hits, I guess I am stuck with buying him pretty sweaters and coats

[Pinoy51]

check ong food allergy.
Simba was itching and pulling his fur out with four, five month. I learned that quite a number of Chows are allergic to wheat and wheat products. If you read the ingredient list of dog food wheat is a very common part.
He is now close to two years and for more than a year he has scratched even a bit, Nala got this diet from day one, same result.
Their diet: mixture of holistic pebbles and Pedrigree wet food.
treats: pedigree denta sticks, apple, cheese and yoghurt.
flea maintenance: once a month Advocate from Bayer.

[christina chow mum]

Hi again, I have been thinking more about this problem with little Thor. Logically, we could all go on and on about food, cold weather, woolly coats ha ha, allergies, dermatitis et al until the cows come home which is all great input as all chows (and their owners ha ha) are all different, but as Thor is so far away and we can't really "see" him or what is happening to his fur and his vets have all driven his owner to distraction, it all comes down to a guessing game which doesn't help Thor's Dad very much. A case of the blind leading the blind it seems. It's just a little thought Thor's Dad but I see from the avatar photo that Thor is a "white chow". (Yes )

If he is, then there have been some good posts and advice on the question of white or "cream" chows on this site. Even though my chow is cinnamon/beige I found what was said very interesting.
Firstly, unlike other chows, the "white chow" has no "black face" when it's born although they have the traditional "blue tongue".
Of course here we are talking about different dog breeds but in the flat upstairs above mine live 3 smallish dogs. Two of these are completely white. They are not Chows. They are really spoiled rotten, always being bathed and have frequent haircuts. Their lunatic owner is always stuffing them with this or that drug, shampoos, perfumes, potions and lotions ( ) with the result that their skin is always visible, a light shade of pink.

So, how about if you do a "surf" something like "Information on White Chow Chow Dog Breeds" and see what comes up. ( ) It is possible (am not really sure) but this chow type may have other disimilarities to other types of Chow and perhaps you could also get more information about "white chow moulting" etc.
It's just a thought!
Take care and don't poke your eye out with the knitting needles....LOL! Let us know how you get on.

[Pinoy51]

You're funny Christina,
on one hand you're suggesting not to do a guessing game but then you declare Thor a white Chow based on an Avatar picture and give advise to research on white Chows.
How would you rank Nala based on her avatar picture? She is the small Chow kissing Simba.
What we're trying to do in this forum is giving hints to fellow Chows owners, so they can cut their internet research short.
Doesn't mean we claim to know what the problem is, as you clearly found out yourself all Chows we "diagnose" are hundreds to thousand miles away.
to Thor's Dad unforunately this kind of skin issue isn't easy to diagnose and no-one in this forum can claim to know what to do and even Vet's have a hard time to find the real issue.
So it is an observing and a "ruling out by trying" effort needed for a long period of time.
Wish you all the best with Thor, who is an adorable little fellow.

[christina chow mum]

Hi Pinoy51, many thanks for your input. I agree, a very difficult case, sort of hit and miss and hope Thor's Dad finds a solution somehow. In the meantime, I am curious about this "menu" of yours...

"...Their diet: mixture of holistic pebbles and Pedrigree wet food.
treats: pedigree denta sticks, apple, cheese and yoghurt.
flea maintenance: once a month Advocate from Bayer...."

I have never heard of "holistic pebbles"...what are these?
Also, I use either Frontline or Advantix ampules on my Chow as a precaution against fleas etc., in fact just put an Advantix on him. My Vet told me to do this every 3 months but I see you use Advocate once a month. I have never heard of this product either. Is this once a month application due to the actual product instructions?
Thanks a lot!

[Pinoy51]

Hi Christina,
"Holistic" is the brand name of the dry food i'm buying for the Chows. My Vet is selling it. It is wheat free, I even think basically grain free, contains lot of good proteins, minerals and vitamines. Simba, my male Chow got a violent skin reaction a few weeks after I got him. That was more or less the reason why I joined here. The poor guy was scratching and pulling out his fur. I got shots from the vet to stop the itchiness and then my research for reasons why Chows are pulling fur begun. I found diet the easiest to check out and bingo the moment I stopped feeding him wheat containing food the problem went away and never came back.
So Thor's dad should do the same and start with the easiest changes first. Food and Shampoo.
Most allergic skin reactions are again from wheat or grains in general and there is also a chance poultry can cause it.
Shampoo, I was made aware that most dog shampoos can cause allergic skin reactions. I'm using now a mild human shampoo anti dandruff (Clear or head and shoulders). And then rinse it for a loooooong time and the rinse some more. soap residues in the undercoat are also potential cause for skin reaction.
Anything else can only be determined together with a vet. No chance to help via this forum.

[Pinoy51]

Oh sorry forgot to answer the Advocate question.
Yes advocate is a once a month dose. It is a luiquid which is absorbed by the skin. the formula takes care of all external and internal parasites incl. heartworm and earmilbes. So nothing else needs to be given then that.
Works very well, they're absolutely parasite free. I live in the tropics and they're outdoor mostly with all kind of crawling and flying creatures around them.

[christina chow mum]

Thank you so much for taking the trouble to explain my queries. I really appreciate it. Holistic yes, I have seen it in pet shops but had no idea what it was. I will think about what you have written as I don't think I have a diet problem with my Chow but good info to keep. Which led me on to the "diet" question and also on to the "shampoo" question. I had a post exchange on the Forum a while ago on the subject of dermatitis wherein my Chow Ming had clumps of "crusty" layers of dead skin on his haunches and tail. I believed this was from not rinsing him well enough. I coated him with Johnson's baby oil and finally managed to get all that off with a very fine comb only to discover that underneath he had nasty red patches of itchy dermatitis.
So, I shampooed all that off with a new shampoo recommended by my Vet with a low pH with Aloe&Camomile and he seemed to be at peace for awhile. Just lately he has started scratching again and today when brushing him I found even more patches of "dermy" crust.
Frankly I have reached a dead end with this problem. I can't really believe that dogs can be bathed with only water and no shampoo! I have tried Vet's suggestions, bought "human" anti-dandruff, anti-itch shampoos, pet brand shampoos from the supermarket always with the same result.
One other thing that comes to my mind constantly is the fact that my Chow always gets dermatitis immediately after being scared like during thunderstorms (we have had a deluge of them here lately) etc. So that could be a cause.
Looks like i'm stuck between a rock and a hard place with this problem.
Thanks also for the Advocate gen. I also live in a "sub-tropical" environment but combine 3-monthly Advantix or Frontline ampoules with a monthly dose of "Vermox" for "indoor pests" ha ha so think I got that one covered.
Thanks so much again!

[Me & Tess]

Christina chow mum, I thought this was an interesting article: http://vetmedicine.about.com/cs/dogdise ... tspots.htm When I was a young girl living at home, we had a spaniel, I am not sure if she had hot spots or not, but she had a chronic dermatitis condition on her rear back. My mom never brought her to a vet & used Sulfodene (sp?) & to this day I can still smell it in my smell memories. I do hope you can find something to help Ming.

[christina chow mum]

Right, okay, many thanks for the link I will pop in later to see. Yes.....hhhhmmm...sulphodene..jogs a memory...my mum used to give us "sulphur" tablets in the long hot post war English summers when we were all covered in very itchy "heat bumps"...I will do a surf on that as well and see if it comes in a brand product over here.
Thanks a million!