Playmate for my Chow Chow

[Oscar's mum]

Hello,
I've got my gorgeous Chow Chow Oscar who is now 7 months. I do have another dog, Max, who is a 10 year old Yorkie but they do not get on well at all. Oscar is young and really wants to play with Max who is not interested at all. I tend to keep them apart and they only spend time with each other when out on walks and an hour or two in the evening when we are chilling in the living room.
What I would like to ask you all is whether you would suggest/recommend that I get another younger dog (ideally another Chow) for Oscar as a playmate?? ............I ask this as I have always had two dogs at the same time that kept each other company. Roxy (Max's buddy) died in May and he has coped as well as can be expected without her. He is happy as long as he gets to sleep on my bed and have lots of fuss from me - which he does.
However Oscar does seem to be missing a playmate....I play with him as much as I can but I know he wants to play with other dogs. I take him to parks and fields, he's in training classes with 10 other dogs his age but I just dont think its enough.

Please can you tell me if you think Chow Chow's need another dog as company?
If you think a chow chow as playmate would be the best option? If so, I think I would have to get another boy as Oscar hasn't been 'done' - do they all end up fighting to be top dog or would this just depend on the temperament of the pups?

I would love your feedback guys! Thank you very much.

(PS, I have read that chows are like tattoos...u cant stop at one. Maybe true in my case!

[christina chow mum]

Well, this is a topic to get our teeth (fangs) into for sure Can offer only my personal experience. I have a 7 year old male "eunuch" Chow called Ming. We live entirely alone together. By nature Chows are distant, solitary, proud creatures who like and prefer their own company. Ming as a puppy never slept with me, nor jumped up on the couch and gets cuddled and stroked only when HE puts in a request (the usual thing - lying on back, legs in air...ha ha). He also slept through most of his puppyhood and still does. All his life he has never mixed with other dogs when outside. He is afraid of larger aggressive dogs and avoids them, observing them from afar or deep growling at them from close up. Like most Chows he has a very sensitive instinct and gets quite upset if he hears puppies whining or cats fighting asking to be let out so he can investigate in the yard. He will accept pats, strokes, coos, oohs and aaahs from some adults but not others and ALWAYS from very small children and babies. When he meets up with small dogs (jack russell, pekinese, tsi tsu, westies) who are very playful with him or "neurotic" he gets exceptionally "annoyed" and growls (not barks) at them as if to say, "Oh for heavens sake, behave!!
I looked after a sick Epaniel Breton female in the summer and he totally accepted her in his yard and ignored her, maybe because he "sensed" she was ill
This is quite a difficult decision for you and a bit risky so all I can suggest is:
A) A Chow doesn't really hanker for "company" as far as I know and is happy to be alone albeit when a playful puppy and will eventually grow out of wanting a playmate if you don't get another one.
B) If Oscar insists on play and Max is not "having any" get more toys for the Chow, spend more time playing or throwing balls with him yourself and/or take him for more separate walks than usual to tire him out.
C) If you DO get another Chow for Oscar then get one NOW at roughly the same age (male or female makes no difference at this age) so they can be puppy friends together with Max observing from afar, that's O.K.
I am more than certain however that as they both grow older they will distance themselves from each other, eventually not only ignoring Max but each other as well. Again, maybe not My 10 cents worth, hope it helps!

[Oscar's mum]

very helpful - thank you Christina.
Oscar is 100% chow and has many traits but aloof isnt one if them. He is very happy to see/acknowledge/fuss over anything and everyone he meets when out. He is a little 'on guard' if other dogs come to my house but soon settles down. I will get loads more toys for Oscar and try and spend more time with him 1-2-1 but I do 'feel' that he is hankering for a dog to play with. I may be wrong though.
I do totally agree with ur point (C) about getting a pup asap who is the same age so they can grow up together....I will have to seriously consider this. I adore Oscar and could easily welcome another dog into my home but I want to make sure its the best thing for him, Max and my son Theo.
Thank you again for commenting.x.x

[Juniper]

My Sheena was 4.5 years old when I got Troy at 9 months, however both were chows. She never appeared interested in other breeds when we went to the dog park but Troy didn’t care, he had tons of energy that was never ending and sounds similar to Oscar. Sheena did play a lot of tug of war with Troy with a rope when she was younger. Troy exhausted me. He always tested Sheena who was Alpha and many times she just put him in his place and then he’d come to me for attention. I noticed when she became about 7 years old she didn’t want to play with Troy anymore.

Max is a senior, been there done that and doesn’t appear interested in training a young pup to acquire manners and learn the ropes. There is a pecking order, so to speak, and Max is first, Oscar is second and your third dog will need to be submissive. I find female chows to be rather pushy and stubborn and I would probably get another male chow for Oscar’s company, if just to release me from all that Oscar would demand of my attention.

Hopefully others with more experience will reply since I have only had 2 chows in my life. Much success in whatever you decide.

[christina chow mum]

BRILLIANT comments Juniper! Bravo! Even though Chows are basically known by the blue tongue, the fur, the proud distance, their aggression etc. etc. in reality they really are all little characters with individual "psyches", no two the same it would appear. I LOVE this forum. It really is a learning experience when I personally thought I knew all there was to know about Ming. [DOH!] Superdooper!!
And thank you Oscars mum for doing the "short speak" script which I have used over the years. It's easy on the eyes and the typing fingers. Glad u like my C point, only 2 happy 2 b of help.... Take care!

[Rory's Dad]

Couple of things to consider. Lots actually...

I agree with Juniper. Females can be more difficult. They will assert themselves more aggressively than males.

Since neither of my dogs are fixed, that is an additional obsticle. (I currently have a 2 year old male and an 11 month old female). Keeping them separate during heat cycles is a logistical equation, but most people dont have that issue.

Ideally, if you want more than 1 chow, try to get litter mates. If that isnt an option, then i would recommend mixing the genders. You will more likely end up with compatible dogs, but again, females are more difficult and will likely try to establish a dominate position but in a less nasty manner. Two males of similar age and structure WILL fight for position unless you are a very strong presence.

Finally, males of different ages fall into two categories. If the age difference is too big you could end up with a perceived weakness in one that will encourage challenges from the other. Think the young buck vs the old. A couple years is probably ideal if the 2nd is introduced as a pup. You could end up with a leader who wants to instruct the new pack member. They should develop a bond and eliminate any dominance issues later in life.

A lot depends on your leadership qualities. If you can maintain a solid structure and properly place the dogs in their pack order then issues should be minimal. If you just have a household of dogs, then they will try to settle things amongst themselves, and that could be nasty no matter the choices.

[Laura]

I have to chime in and say please get the opposite gender. We see a lot of people on here who make the mistake of getting same gender chows and then come here seeking advice on how to stop the fighting.
My female is not the least bit dominant with my male. They are all individuals but it is not worth the risk to get same genders. It makes for a miserable household when the fighting and separation or rehoming begins.

[Oscar's mum]

Wow, thanks all. Very helpful indeed.
I honestly thought getting a male companion for Oscar would be the best move, especially as he is intact and keeping a female and male apart would be difficult. (Oscar is also very *Censored Word* aware it seems and shoved his nose under every dog he can get to).
As an update, I have purchased and made some excellent toys to keep Oscar amused and stimulated and we have 1-2-1 time every evening to practice training. He seems a little more chilled at the moment and, if the weather improved (unlikely), I am hoping that my partner will be able to take Oscar across the golf course in the evenings to help burn off some extra energy he has. I live in Wales (UK) and its notoriously wet in the winter.
~Given the advice I've received on here and friends etc, I think Oscar would benefit from LOADS more time with other dogs in the parks so he can get his fill of playing with them and then retire to 'his' home. Thanks again guys!

[Oscar's mum]

PS - does anyone else find that other (non chow) dog owners are less inclined to let their dogs play with your Chows? When Oscar was a small pup, I had tones of people coming over to pet and fuss him, but now he is a large gorgeous lump of fur, they all seem a bit scared of him and wont let their dogs too close.......and to make it worse Oscar cannot just ignore anyone or anything.....he has to try and get to them for a sniff and play.
Maybe its just where I live as I have not seen another Chow in my town since I was a child.

[Rory's Dad]

Sounds a lot like my Rory (the 2 year old male). If we are just out and about he will mark everything in sight. He does the sniffy routine too and his tongue will actually start to spasm he gets so worked up. He is also very situationally smart. When we drop him off to his handler for Confirmation shows, he absolutely stops all that and finds some focus to just look handsome and strut. He does not do this in any other situations.

We get tons of people that want to meet him and pet him. He considers himself a celebrity and rightfully so. But, yes we see other people with their dogs that steer clear. This was explained to me way back when in a way that makes a lot of sense. Chows walk into a space with an air of dominance, superiority, and aloofness. Their stance and gait very different than other dogs. By design, it sets other dog breeds off guard. They just don't know how to respond to it. Even at dog shows, we see larger, sometimes even bully breeds step aside. These dogs are very used to being in social environments yet rotties, danes, wolfhounds and even some pits part the seas when the chows parade through. I think owners in tune with their dogs sense that and do the same.

Both my dogs are extremely social and non-aggressive, but we still get the same result when walking them or visiting a dog park. Fortunately, they dont take it personally.

Strangely in our area, i own the only chows. Many people claim to have owned them in the past and report behavioral issues...mostly i am not convinced. I think they are enamored by the breed, and want to have had them, but either haven't really or weren't a good candidate to be owned by a chow. A hundred times i have heard a parent tell their kids about 'thats a chow, look at his tongue and mouth'. Usually they understand the approach rules and ask ahead of time. If not i am happy to instruct the new friends.

We spend the entire heat cycle for Amber with baby gates and separation. Somewhat inconvenient to be stepping over the obstacles, but not impossible. Rory is actually pretty used to the heat cycles since he has been showing since he was 6 months old. There are always females in season at the shows, so he has been around it since then.

[christina chow mum]

Good heavens Guys, I have just read all this marvellous and very experienced input and am completely at a loss for words so if you will all excuse me I will just chuck in a big WOW I have only ever had one Chow and, I doubt if I ever will, but if I do get TWO chows in the future then all this input is definitely "copy-pasted" for future reference

Yes, I know the feeling about Chows being "rejected" in general by other dog walkers. It usually happens strangely enough (not really...) to me when a great big hulk of a guy goes past with a tiny chihuahua or an itsy bitsy poodle on a lead, hence the nasty looks and withdrawals. LOL! The first thing I get asked here is: Does he bite? Answer: Only his bones in the yard my dear (sigh..) etc. etc. etc. Fear and recrimination, ignorance or, in most cases jealousy, with some nurds not being able to understand, I believe, how a mere woman can take such a "monster lion-bear" for a walk and come back alive - I just have put to up with! Tsk tsk. I haven't "met" more than 3 Chows in my area or the whole of Athens per se. I heard they all died young, with all three of them being kept tied 24/7 on a small balcony in typical "ancient" Greek tradition, as status symbols it seems and not walked (a dreadful pity) at all as far as I know so Ming has built up quite a "curious mascot" "could be loved and love in return" reputation. I see that most people in the area are used to him now and frequently chat to him or pat him. Sometimes when I go into a local shop they always ask me where Ming is? Takes time...takes time. Familiarisation is key I think. Chows are real softies at heart I believe but I really am not inclined to stand chatting to anybody during our walks discussing Ming's "pros and cons". We all have our problems. Ho hum...

P.S/ For Oscar's mum>> Well I never, small world (kind of...) I had no idea you live in Wales (Yaki Dar!) in the dark satanic coalmines (not anymore I think) and that you abide in "cement city". Oh dear, not nice, especially trying to find somewhere green to walk around in...By the bye we get "Torchwood" on T.V. over here full of lovely rich welsh accents..yum! All my teachers were Welsh at grammar school, "Jones the music" "Evans the art and drama" ... Happy days! l'd give anything right now to take a stroll with Ming just about anywhere in the U.K. (Cotswolds, West Country, Somerset, Scottish Highlands) but as you said in a post I guess I am lucky to live in this tiny Greek suburb of mine, albeit quite by accident in the beginning.... In fact this morning, I took some "Autumn" pics during our walk and would be happy to private mail them to you if you agree, or if not, I could always chuck them on here. Let me know.

Lastly, on the subject of my previous "Catwise - At Last" Topic Ming is definitely keeping his old Chinese wise word and avoiding the furry feline creatures! To prove it, have a look at this from this morning's walk, LOL!

[christina chow mum]

A quickie for Rory's Dad..... Ohmigod! This is the best description/choice of words I have ever seen anywhere or on anything connected with owning a Chow!
i.e. ".... Many people claim to have owned them in the past and report behavioral issues...mostly i am not convinced. I think they are enamored by the breed, and want to have had them, but either haven't really or weren't a good candidate to be owned by a chow......." Brilliant! Now why didn't I think of that Well done!

[Rory's Dad]

Thank you for the quickie Christina. But seriously, those are the comments we get. Now granted, my babies are absolutely gorgeous, but i can take no credit for that. That is why people want to be introduced to them.

I will take 100% credit for their socialization and behavior however. As everyone knows, Chows are not every persons dog.

If you bought a Chow because he was the cutest fur ball pup ever, and never researched the breed, then you are bound to fail as a Chow owner. If you raise a Chow like any other breed, then you will end up with a dog that is challenging your every command. If you are not prepared to lead your Chow and to be his/her pack General you will get an unruly, misbahaved dog that will rule to coop.

[christina chow mum]

Again, well said. I had originally wanted a Tsi Tsu and did do quite a bit of research on dogs from the Far East (China, Tibet) as I am very into buddhism and it kind of "matched" what I was about at the time. But then going on to looking at Chows I was committed from the start. Yes, I did research a lot and yes, I know who is the boss and now that Ming is older, so does he! By nature I am a person who likes a challenge in many ways in life in general and a little Tsi Tsu finally, although quite adorable, clever and funny are no match for a challenge like Ming, or for me. We went through the learning process of Alpha and Beta, dog yoga, you know all the stuff we go through. Ming is now totally accepting of me and I of him. What I have been through with him can only be likened to Shakespeare's The Taming of The Shrew or Robert Redford's Horse Whisperer. They have been turbid but happy years.
Take care!

[Crumpet]

I got my Wookie at 8 weeks old and he has grown up with a 4 year old rescue dog I adopted last year. Wookie idolizes and adores his big brother. He follows him everywhere and whines for him; they go running together in the woods for an hour each morning and evening. Wookie is now 10 months old and I doubt he would be nearly as active if it wasn't for growing up with Rio. Rio was very shy and skittish but loving, and since Wookie came he has come out of his shell so much!!! Wookie has also been playing with my mom's Siberian every week since we first got him. I have seen such a transformation and to me it has brought out the best in both dogs.

[christina chow mum]

Wow! Thanks for the pics! Rio and Wookie are BOTH scrumptious! I was very interested to read "your story". If you check through some of the topics here you will see that (another dog with a chow or a chow with another chow) doesn't always "mix". Based on what you say about them if there was a Nobel Peace Prize awarded to Chows and their friends, then Wookie is my number one candidate! Well done all of you!
Hugs and love to both!

[Crumpet]

Thank you!!!!!!!!!!1

[Oscar's mum]

Thanks guys - this is brilliant.
'Crumpet' - I'm really pleased that wookie and rio get on so well....it does seem rare with Chows - you are right 'Christina chow mum' all stories on here suggest chows are less likely to get on with other dogs. Its GREAT to hear it can work. I will be having another beautiful chow in the future and I am confident that with the right introduction and socializing they will adore each other like wookie and rio. (They are gorgeous btw).
Christina - please do pm me with pics. I have lots of Oscar on the beaches of Wales and will be taking him the waterfalls of the Brecon Beacons before Christmas! (-: xx

[Crumpet]

Thanks for your kind words. Actually, Wookie and Rio both seem to really like other dogs. Wookie has been raised with both male and female dogs as well as small and large breeds. Rio was in foster care for 1.5 years before being adopted and he was kept on a farm with about 15 other dogs for company. Ever since he was 8 weeks old Wookie has been going to my mom's every week and playing with her full blooded Siberian (who is 3 years old and actually wears him out) and we take all 3 of my dogs whenever we visit friends, so he has become very friendly with their little dogs as well.

I suspect a lot of it may be the intense effort I put into early and consistent socialization, but I also had him neutered at 6 weeks of age because I discussed with the breeder my concerns about same secks aggression. The reality is that I have a female and a male dog and my mom has a female dog, so either way I was looking at a potential problem. She explained that the early neutering prior to the testosterone coming in would help with the male on male aggressive tendencies but there was no similar solution for a female pup. My vets thought it was great that he came home already neutered and microchipped. Since protectiveness is a breed trait and not a gendered trait there was no concern that it would make him less protective of us and the home. He will be 1 year old in 2 months and still seems to get on just fine with other dogs, male and female. The neighbors know him and Rio because my dogs greet them when they are out walking their dogs. My dogs will not approach people at all but they do go right up to the dogs!

[christina chow mum]

Yeah... I know the problem with "outsider dogs" very well...unfortunately. It comes with the "territory"...hum. Poor old Ming has never "met" another chow in his life so I have no idea how he would behave with one.
On the other hand, his behaviour with "other" dogs is something to see. When larger dogs approach him, sniff around him or just "hang out" he will "growl" at them as a kind of warning or as a kind of "who's the leader of the pack?" "warning". With very small dogs he kind of accepts them near him but once they start chasing about, doing cartwheels and all that small guy stuff he gets very "annoyed" and does the growl again as if to say "Oi! stop messing about and behave yourselves!.." lol!

The other problem I have always had, again, due to the "territory" is with the various "peeps" (with or without dogs) on our walks. Some owners of small or large dogs seeing Ming coming towards them even on his strong lead, drastically and frantically pull them to one side until we have passed, or make silly comments like "a lion escaped from the zoo" etc.etc. The only thing missing on these occasions is John Cleese doing a Monty Python's "Ministry of Silly Walks" walk..sigh..
The other really "hurtful" reaction I have come across on occasion is when one or two old ladies or gentlemen, on seeing Ming's approach, take out a handkerchief, put it over their noses and stand to one side until we have passed!! It's true! I kid you NOT! Very, very silly, but true!. Thank God I grew out of my inferiority complex when I was 16!

The rest of the time, there are very nice people who come up to him, ooh and aaah and coo and oooo who ask me what breed he is, what he eats and then try to stroke him which always freaks me out as Ming tends to react differently to different people like he does with different dogs so I tend to back off that....just in case...ooooppss!

[christina chow mum]

Hi again Oscar's Mum no problem with "PMing" you some photos but I already shoved some pics into the Photo Gallery under "Ming, Me & Greece" and under "Walkie Walkie Lookee See" in General Discussions. There are not many so you won't get bored...LOL! That was a pain as I think you can only upload 3 pics at a time on posts and both photo posts look a real mess so am not sure how many I could get onto a PM. If you wanna see more, I can always put some into a word doc, save it as a Pdf and send them by e-mail if that's okay. Let me know...

FYI The nearest I ever got to Wales was a firm's day trip to Hereford, where we visited the Bulmer's Cider Factory. For the life of me, I can't remember coming out of there nor the trip back on the coach with everybody (as well as the driver...) singing their hearts out !! HIC! LOL!