Chows and Baths

[698carolh]

I got some input about Chub Chub's biting, and now a general question please.

Chub intensely dislikes baths for a long time now. He use to go to the groomers, and then all of a sudden would not let anyone touch him for grooming. He lets me brush him, but nails etc are a no way. Even to get his nails clipped, he needs to be sedated. My vet is aware of this, and says chub chub is fine, as I brush him a lot. Now that he was biting his fur, I was wondering about baths again.

My question is this.............does he really need to have baths, if I am brushing him for around a half hour each and every day? If he does, how do I go about arranging this when he gets aggressive with people trying to groom him.

Thanks again
Carol and Chub Chub

[christina chow mum]

"Ad infinitum" we get fed millions of National Geographic documentaries about the stone age, the invention of fire and flint honed weapons but nowhere have I ever seen a mention of a NEOLITHIC GUY OR A GIGANTIC HAIRY MAMMOTH HAVING A HOT BATH Ergo, this practice evolved all by itself through millenniums until today mainly because homo sapiens discovered water doesn't go inside our skins LOL plus the fact that we can't stand the "odour" of the guy standing next to us on the train to work! GROOOH Animals are different. In the wild, they will simply roll about in the snow or splash in a puddle when they feel "ITCHY". Being of the conviction that "anything with fur that lives in a house with humans definitely needs a bath" we subject the poor furry things to all kinds of torture to get them CLEAN! Bathing Chows in particular as they have two coats, makes them suffer all kinds of dermatitis, wet hot spots, furious itching from any old shampoo and dry skin in most cases, especially when we don't rinse them properly [as I have discovered with Ming....sigh]. Fur pulling is mostly a reaction to dermatitis, itching or helping itself to "shed" as in shedding the fur comes out by itself. Relax! Chows don't need so many baths. If your chowlie absolutely refuses, then leave him out of this "ancient yet modern practice". Why torment him when there is no need It's all very okay to brush him, clean his eyes, ears, round its mouth and its genitals with a baby wipe or similar to keep the "important bits" kind of clean and now and again when you are brushing him which he seems to like, then do it with a DRY DOG SHAMPOO rubbed onto his body, or on the brush. If he likes being rubbed and stroked then he will really love this idea!! So, buy it, try it and let us know if this makes you feel better. P.S. I have never clipped Ming's nails at the vet or personally, wouldn't dare, but long ago discovered he shortens his own claws when out walking with his constant "ground scratching" either before or after having a "dump"

[ChowServant]

There are good groomers, bad groomers and great groomers out there. We had problems with the first two we tried (including a frantic call from one groomer who was convinced our guy was going to have her leg for lunch if she tried to get him out of his cage) but finally discovered a great one (Dog Stylists in Durham, NC for those of you who live in the Research Triangle Park area). Our Chow BooBoo now loves to go to there for a bath & trim - as soon as he gets out of the car he starts pulling on the leash to go inside. We'd hate to give up his baths, he has a bad habit of finding possums in our back yard and rediscovering that they don't make good playmates. When he's coated from head to haunch with possum goo we rinse him off as best we can then haul him off to the groomer and get back a nice, clean & fluffy guy. They're set up with warm water bathing areas, etc. so he likes baths there much better than when we give him one at home. Of course, removing possum goo does require a larger tip than usual!

[Me & Tess]

I had a conversation with one of the docs I worked for (about 20 years ago - oh my goodness). I was telling him about Tess and that we only gave her a bath once or twice a year. He retorted, "Well I would never want to go to your house!" I know I mentioned this before, but Tess was the sweetest smelling Chow girl. She smelled like clean clothes drying outside on the line. She never had "stinky chin." I did have to give her butt bathes every once in a while. When it was very hot in SoCal I would gently water her with the hose.

Lilly got her summer bath and I really wanted to give her another before it turned cold. Alas, it is freezing now. I tried to give her a butt bath when our son was up. I decided to just use the hose. The day was hot & the water in the hose was warm. I tethered her to the porch and washed her butt, the water was still warm. By the time I got to rinsing her the water got cold then colder. As I rinsed her she started making a halted "oh! oh! oh!" sound with every "oh!" she raised her butt a little. In the end I had Matt get me a bucket of warm water to finish. Lilly doesn't like bathes, but we manage thru them.

We recently brought her to our vet's to get her nails clipped. We did use the muzzle & everything went so fast I don't think she had a minute to think about it. She was given a couple of cookies when it was all over. Going home, I sat in the back seat of the truck with her & gave her loves. It all went well and she stayed in a good mood, didn't go into a sulking funk.

Lilly isn't keen on brushing but I do run my fingers thru her fur, messaging her body & skin.

I never believed in a lot of bathes for our Chows & dogs. They never had any skin problems. I think too many bathes take away the natural oils and set up an imbalance.

[christina chow mum]

Hi there, been going over this post/topic as trying to find a solution (to cover my extreme guilt, I think) to my own "bath problem" with Ming. His situation is very similar to Lilly's. My vet told me he only needs a full bath 2 or 3 times a year with brushing every 2 or 3 days, little washes end and foot, ears, etc. My daughter was horrified and said that "anything that lives in a house with humans definitely needs a LOT of baths!" Like Lilly's location, the climate in Greece is somewhat similar I think. In the summer (up to 40oC) Ouch! I "bathed" Ming several times under the garden hose which cooled him down greatly but cold water doesn't rinse off the shampoo properly so he always ended up with lumps of crusty dermatitis on his back haunches in front of his tail.
The last time I did this last month, I made the same mistake as Lilly's mum when the sun-heated hose water suddenly ran cold and Ming was also "eeeking" and shaking like mad. He enjoys his "hot" baths in the bathroom with hot water and afterwards seems content, relaxed and doesn't scratch, smells nice too.
My current problem is that again he has lumpy crusty bits of skin under his fur on the haunches and spends a lot of time trying to pull the fur out from those areas with his teeth. I comb through those with a fine steel comb to try and clear this mess but the fur is so thick I'm on a loser. I thought that the other reason for this fur tugging out with his teeth may not be just to get at the crusty stuff (which may or may not be itchy, not sure?) but could be as he is now moulting for the winter he pulls out balls of fur naturally himself to help the process along. Anyone else got "crusty haunches" and/or teeth pulling out fur when moulting Thanks!

[Me & Tess]

Christina, you might want to apply some Vaseline on the crusty areas to soften them.

I was thinking of posting this on Tess' site, but this goes along with Chows and Baths. It was in the spring the of the first year after we built our cabin, we still had lots of dirt around our "construction site." Tess had gotten a muddy tummy. She was so good with baths. I took her to an area that was slopped and green with grass & had her lay on her side. Mike got me a bucket of warm water. I gently poured the water on her tummy & rubbed away the dirt. Tess enjoyed it so much that she wanted it to go on and on. The warm water felt so good to her. I had to tell her to "get up."

Tess loved to be brushed. When we lived in SoCal Mike & I worked different shifts. He would brush her in the morning & I would brush her in the evening. Up here we had special places for brushing, in the summer Tess & I would go outside at night and sit on the grass at the bottom of our stairs. In the daytime we would start out in an area of shade and move to another. She would tolerate at least an hour of brushing at a time. In winter we would sit on our porch.

Mike clipped Tess' toenails with little complaint from Tess. He was always worried that he might clip to close to the quick. I don't think we could have done that with Lilly, so it was off to the vet.

[christina chow mum]

Many thanks Me&Tess. You have given me an idea. I put Celestoderm Garamycin ointment for dermatitis on Ming's crusty bits now and again when I try and get them off him but it doesn't help the problem much. I use vaseline and drops of iodine mix for sunbathing over here (fantastic tanner and cheap too!) so got loads of that and will use it. Brilliant! Thanks again!

[Crumpet]

My chow runs in the woods a lot and we are forever combing burrs out of his fur and wiping mud off his legs from him running in the creeks out there. Sometimes he comes home with his face covered in black muck!! So, even though they are a clean breed, I have given him a good rinse with the hose and I've taken him once to Critter Bath House which is set up with everything you need to bathe and groom your own dog. Fortunately, he is very good with tolerating grooming and easily lets me wipe his feet clean and comb his fur regularly. He did not appear to enjoy the soapy bath and rinsing but tolerated all of it without trying to get away. He did not like going into the crate to wait while I washed my other dog and I had to force him to do that. If he didn't go in the woods so much I would not get him wet as often. My mother's Siberians have never needed a bath their entire lives, so I don't think all dogs 'need' to be bathed and certainly not often.

[christina chow mum]

Thanks Crumpet Chow. My sense of guilt about not bathing Ming so often is slowly waning with all the good advice. I think the more you bath them, the sicker they get, or so it seems to me...

EPILOGUE to Ming’s Greek Odyssey through the “Itchy, Crusty bits on Haunches” Saga.

FYI: The dry crusty bits on his haunches had obviously gotten there from me not rinsing him properly after his baths and/or "cooler downers" with the yard hose in the Summer and developed into itchy dermatitis. He never gets them anywhere else, just on his back/haunches, very difficult to get to them due to the dense fur there so he tugs his fur all the time. Pitiful to watch the gymnastics...

Took Me&Tess’s advice so tried to rub in Vaseline to soften them but it’s a bit chilly here now so that kind of stuck in a goo on the outer fur and wouldn’t “spread through”. So I hit on the idea of Johnson’s Baby Oil which poured easily right thru onto the skin. I massaged the oil in well, left it for a couple of hours, then combed through all over the rear back/haunches with a steel dog comb removing tons of crusty crap and saw that over the area there were patches of angry, red dermatitis on the poor ickle thing . Thinks: Finding all that was like going blind through Hampton Court Maze. No end in sight, my dears... no end to it...

I let him be with the oil on him overnight. (He’s got enough to be going on with from the approaching dreaded storms...sigh). This morning, another good comb through, nice hot bath with a delicate low pH shampoo containing Aloe and Chamomile. Rinsed off ten times with warm water, dried with towels, then with his fave hairdryer to make sure, then applied Celestoderm Garamycin (Betamethasone-Gentamicin Sulphate) ointment to the smaller red patches and Terramycin (oxytetracycline) powder to the larger moist patches.

Voila! No more fur tugging misery and he’s the epitomy of the "calm before the storm” LOL! Now busy disinfecting all his brushes, towels and bedding. Ooooooz a good chow mummy then?

Thanks a big hug for the tip Me&Tess even though I did a “detour”, it was something I had never thought of.

[Cam Atis]

Our chows (and dogs in general) are bathed every week regardless where they stay. Me? Busy. SO Cassie and Blue is bathed once a month, sometimes 6 weeks.
How old is Chub Chub? Did you start him on a warm water bath (38 deg Celsius)? You have to introduce him as a puppy. Later when he is about a year, and the weather is hot, you can introduce tap water. 30 degrees Celsius.
That same thing goes to grooming, make him use to holding his paws, letting him inspect the nail clippers, click it a few times without doing anything, he'll get used to it
What not to do: Dont force it if he doesnt want to. You may coax gently
I have lots of dogs in my life and that's how I introduce them to bathing. Using lukewarm water. So bathing is a breeze (takes me forever to rub her fur with shampoo), same with nail clipping, though her nails naturally are filed by the concrete floors outside the house. Fur brushing is well, Cassie has to be tied down and we talk for half to one hour, while I would brush her whichever direction suits it best. If she want to be brushed this way, so be it. We'll be like that till she turn around. We do this while she plays with the brush and comb.
Fur Clipping is way too wiggly, she needs peanut butter to stay put.

[DrewBear]

My question is this.............does he really need to have baths, if I am brushing him for around a half hour each and every day?

+1 for minimal bathing. As others have pointed out, there are many variables: climate you live in, time spent outdoors, your own tolerance for 'natural' smells on your Chow, etc. Daily grooming is great! You could also use a wash cloth & small basin of warm water to wipe dust & dirt off his fur. Consider getting a good pet dryer so you can gently dry everything down to the skin when necessary.

[christina chow mum]

Whooooa, Cam Atis... some confusion I think... My Chow's name is Ming and he is 7 years old, not a puppy. I have written all I can about bathing him since he was a tiny puppy but just had a little problem with a build up of sorts probably from unrinsed shampoo which has a lot of "salts" in it. He is fine now, stopped scratching and smells much more like his old self. I taught him from a puppy to get used to a hair dryer, scissors, electric razor and sometimes when he is really full of dust I go over him with my vacuum cleaner nozzle....he he! He LOVES that!!. Thanks anyway for all the input.
P.S. I pay my vet a lot of dough to tell me stuff and if he thinks only full summer baths every month in the summer, with little top and tail washes in between the rest of the year are O.K. then that's what we do. Take care!