Get 2nd Chow Chow Pup??? Any advice?

[RubyChow]

The wife and I are considering a second chow for the family. We currently have a 7 year old female who is extremely calm and sweet. She gets along with other animals just fine, doesn't really play too much, and hardly ever gets into any altercations even with hyper dogs that she definitely does not care for. We are a little concerned about how she might behave or if she may feel crowded or too territorial in her home with a new pup. She is the only animal we have ever had at this home the past 6 years. She lived with a cat the first year we had her and they were good friends.

We are also considering crate training the new puppy. We never did with Ruby but we were thinking it may be better for housetraining, leaving for work, adjusting with the two dogs, etc.?

Any thoughts or recommendations are greatly appreciated! I think our main concern is that our current 7yr old will be unhappy with the new addition, as she has always been the only dog with a lot of attention..

[applebear]

I'm no expert, but sometimes they surprise you. I brought two dogs in with my 14 year old [not at once] and I was so worried at first. He handled it fine...he established his boundaries and they respect it. Even my 12 week old pup has learned "we don't mess with the little guy." She sounds pretty easy going and like she'd do well, but of course you never know until the new pup is there. Introductions are best on neutral ground [though I'll be honest and I didn't with either new dog, but they aren't overly territorial either].

I personally am a fan of crate training, but every one is different there. I think for safety reasons, it's probably for the best at least until the pup is older.

[Sirchow]

Here in the UK many of us have same gender pairs or groups but I know when I asked about it before getting Izzie everyone in the US said dont get two of the same gender. I have three females and no problems at all but I am very very on the ball and any altercations are nipped in the bud before they get entrenched. It might be better to go for opposites and get a male.

I would definitely crate train. All of mine kind of made their own decision at a certain age that the crate was no longer welcome or required but up until that point it was a godsend as the smaller puppy can make the older dog a little crabby if they wont behave and older dogs can be a little rough at times! So all in all for peace of mind I found crate training to be a great sollution. It also helps with potty training if you are not around all the time as most chows wont mess their own small space but given the run of the house on their own may designate a spot for use and then it is hard to break the habit!

Keep us posted on progress and of course photos

[applebear]

Here in the UK many of us have same gender pairs or groups but I know when I asked about it before getting Izzie everyone in the US said dont get two of the same gender. I have three females and no problems at all but I am very very on the ball and any altercations are nipped in the bud before they get entrenched. It might be better to go for opposites and get a male.

I personally feel it has more to do with the individual dogs personalty, temperament, etc than the gender. I use to hear the same all the time, can't keep more than one male and then my fave is when they say you can have two females...in reality, two females can fight and have issues just as much. So can a male and a female. Though gender can play a role in some situations, I think it's much less than people think. I have 3 males and there are no issues. I excersize NILIF on all 3, as well as tried to pick a personality that would fit in. It's not without flaws, but so very few things are.

[Merlin]

I'd like to toss in my 2 cents if you don't mind.

Getting along with other dogs isn't the same as living with one. Has your female ever lived with another dog for any length of time? If not, then yes, you really do need to take things into consideration. The reasoning behind splitting genders is that it increases your chances for a successful placement in your home. What will you do if things ultimately don't work out?? ... because at some point, the puppy isn't going to be a puppy any more and like most chows worth their salt, will make attempts to take control of their lives, or at least certain portions of their lives, and that is usually where the problems start. If there is a male/female combination, it is more likely that one or both will much more accepting of assertive behaviour from the other dog. not always, but certainly more often.

Before plunging into things my suggestion to you would be to offer to foster a young chow from a nearby chow rescue. that should give you a very good indication of how your female will react to another female in her space 24/7, because like I said, the puppy won't always be a puppy. That way at least if there is an unwanted or unexpected revelation within the house hold you have valid options - you can ask the rescue to remove the dog from your home. Once you get that puppy , it's yours for life - you'll have to live with the problem. You might even use a foster program as a stepping stone to help migrate your dog into learning how to live with another dog. That is a perfectly good idea. Once the foster dog is adopted, then would be the time ( if all went well) to introduce a new dog into your home. If there is no chow rescue nearby, usually most SPCA's have outreach programs that you can participate in, and it's as easy as offering to foster a similar breed if they don't have chows. ( Shiba Inu, sharpei, Euraiser, huskey, saymoyed, etc. - any of the spitz group). I think it would be a valuable way for you to learn about your own dog, and in the meantime, you'd be doing a most valuable service to some shelter or rescue somewhere.

Naturally, a lot of success also depends on your own dog rearing skills. I can tell you of many instances where dogs fail in homes, yet the same dog, placed in almost identical circumstances in another home, actually thrives and is problem free, and only because the owners are better able to maintain balance in a multi dog household and are better able to deal with any unwanted presentations.

Another thing to consider is that if you are working all day, it is entirely unfair, actually cruel, to crate a puppy for 8 hours or more. Puppies fare much better in environments where they can get regular attention through the formative months ( JMHO)

[gebower]

Yes, my advice is DON'T. I had Max and then got his half sister a year later. Same father, didn't mothers. I've had to stop several fights. She sees herself as the Alpha female and enforces it. The pecking order in our home is me, number one, 2nd in line is Zeena and my wife, and Max third. This will never change, it's just the way it is.
It's true, some people luck out with multiple Chows. I've seen one couple that had two male Chows and they get along fine. My Chows are fixed. All that does is take the FIGHT out of male and makes the female more aggressive. That's my personal experience. I'm definitely sure I will get retorts on this one but, it's my personal experience. Max is six now and Zeena is five. I have to kennel them at Christmas as we will be out of town for a week. I've instructed to put them in separate kennels but, next to each other so they can see each other.
Even when people come to our front fence Zeena insists that Max stays back, "she'll handle it" or there is a fight.
Good Luck, Gene.

[Rory's Dad]

I'll give you my experience, because i dont think there is a cut and dry answer here. As many have said, alot depends on the individual dogs, and your experience/ability to control the home.

I have successfully had two male adult chows, neither fixed, that tolerated each other quite nicely. I won't say they were buddies or best friends. They tolerated and respected space. There was a five year age difference between them. When the younger male was a puppy, the older set the boundaries and it was peaceful. Some play and interaction, but mostly they occupied space together. As Kodi, the older male aged, it became somewhat of a pecking order struggle, but never to an extreme of fighting. We carefully controlled eating regimens and showed no favoritism to one over the other.

After Kodi passed on though, Teddee absolutely went through a crisis stage. He missed him and it was obvious.

Teddee has since passed as well, and we currently have an 18 month old male and an almost 6 month old female. Neither are altered as we show the dogs and intend to breed them (not together) when the time is right.

We too were sold on the idea of having mixed gender dogs. In our situation, i think we are in for a BIG struggle come heat time...

Anyway, Rory, our male, is the most tolerant accepting Chow i have ever met. To say that positioning him in the household was easy is an understatement. Amber, the female, is still in puppy mode and wants to puppy play constantly, but will also chase Rory across the house. He really wants nothing to do with the biting and nipping that occurs. He is hesitant to set boundaries (although he does on occasion), due to his temperment. He would be quite happy just to hang out and lay around the house, but Amber is non-stop. I know she will outgrow this, but also know she is positioning herself.

Amber has been away the past 2 weeks learning how to behave in the show ring. Reports are that she has been pretty active playing with a Siberian pup, so we will see how she interacts with Rory when she returns on Thursday.

[Rory's Dad]

Oh, and i hit submit too quickly...

You may want to consider a rescue to get a 2nd chow outside the puppy range. Closer in age should reduce the 'advantage' complex both early on and later in their life spans.

I am very particular on rescues because i think some behavioral issues and memories are difficult for Chows to overcome, but if the right fit is found, it could be a good solution for you.

[RubyChow]

Thanks everyone for the input. We are still on the fence, not sure what to do. We have a unique situation in that my Wife's parents are the breeders with the pup. They have said we were even welcome to bring the pup home and see how our Ruby does with her for a kind of 'trial period'. I think this could be a good option but am a little worried it may take a while for us to realize that Ruby is not happy and then it will be a little late to just go ahead and give her back. Also, I do not really want to even make the tentative commitment if we can not go through with it.

Thanks again for the help! We are definitely trying to consider all the potential pros vs. cons...

[Rory's Dad]

Why didnt you say that earlier...makes a huge difference.

I would reverse the situation and allow your 7 year old access to the pup. You will know very quickly whether they bond or not. Home will be a lot more comfortable for them, and if there are going to be issues, you will likely see it outside of her comfort zone.

[Sirchow]

Whilst this makes a huge difference in that if it doesn't work out it will give you other options I dont think it actually will show very much. Ours go through stages at different ages sometimes one is boss and sometimes another and the main thing that stops there being a free for all in our house and fighting is me. I control the situation, set boundaries and keep an eye if one chow is in a down position like when Bramble had surgery or Isla had a bad stomach. I step in and make sure no one takes advantage. They know what is acceptable and if they are not capable of maintaining the behaviour levels I expect when the ballance of power alters then I make sure they are seperate when not supervised. It is down to the owner to control the situation at all times. We took dogs out the wild and force them to live an unatural life as companions and family members so it is our responsibility to protect them from situations that they are not equiped to handle.

Sorry that sounded like a lecture...it was not meant to be just something I feel very strongly about.

[Rory's Dad]

Ours are separated when not supervised as well. Since Amber is only 6 months old, i dont exactly trust the behavior i see when i am in charge. She is the aggressor most of the time, but Rory still has the size and strength to end any issue if he so desires.

[JasonandNat]

I've always found you can make anything work if your paying attention to the dynamics.

When FengHuang passed way, ShenLung was just as heart broken as we were. The arrival of FuShiLu as a puppy took getting used to all around. ShenLung is 5 yrs old, and other than scaring the beejeepers out of her and us a few times about food and "it's sleep time" he has been her best new friend teacher her everything including full on combat. He taught her zoomies, how not to get herself in a weak position in a fight, and so on, it has been wonderful. All the time putting up with her chewing his ears, lips, feet, tail, clumps of his beautiful fur and soon and hse didn't sleep a wink the first 3 weeks! Both went to the groomer yesterday a first for her, and they were so amazed at ShenLung for his sheer patience with her all over him.

All that said, FuShiLu is going to be a very dominate gal and the terrible TWO's are going to be interesting, but we truly believe in the end that they would rather be with each other. They both love every other dog they meet, and FuShiLu loves all people. We have always felt 2 or more is better than a lonely one.

[RubyChow]

Thanks Everyone for all of your help! So we decided to give it a shot. Been about two weeks and things are going OK so far. The first couple of days were kind of rough. I went from thinking it would work out; to we are going to have to give her back I think at least 2 or 3 different times the first 3-5 days. Ruby seems to be adjusting better now. She didn't eat much or even want to explore the yard like she normally does for the first few days but seems to be getting back into her normal behavior. The new pup Winnie wants to bite her like crazy though. Ruby has check her a couple of times and Winnie seems to listen somewhat but not for very long. If we did not have the crate for Winnie I do not think that this would work at all. Ruby seems like she is getting more comfortable around the pup and I think she has actually seemed to initiate playing with Winnie a couple times. Sometimes I am not so sure if Ruby is playing or is getting mad at little Winnie, so we try to watch closely and separate them if it seems to be getting carried away. Thanks again for all the advice we certainly appreciate the insight!

Also, anyone know how to post photos? I can not figure out how to attach any pics.

[applebear]

Just give it time, puppies are hard on everyone. Ruby will come around too. My last chow use to stop eating and become lethargic if things changed too much but I just monitored him and all most always he came around on his own. At first I use to panic and try to change things back...this makes it worse and just reinforcing the behavior. By all means I'm not saying ignore it completely, just watch from corner of eye to see if things improve and intervene if it gets worse or doesn't improve with some time.

To post pics, the only way I know how is to get a photobucket account and then you use the img links to copy/paste here. Is a pain in the wahoo but don't believe they have another method. Hopefully someone will speak up if they do.

Grats on your new pup

[Sirchow]

That all sounds pretty normal to me...just make sure your older chow gets some one on one time without the baby...Congratulations by the way.

If you go to the bottom of your post and click "Upload attachment" you can search your pics then. They need to be resized mostly to a bit smaller but the uploader will tell you if they are too big. Cant wait to see your baby.

[applebear]

If you go to the bottom of your post and click "Upload attachment" you can search your pics then. They need to be resized mostly to a bit smaller but the uploader will tell you if they are too big. Cant wait to see your baby.

Wow I totally missed that. Cool, will have to try it out sometime. Or I'll just try it out now...woohoo, squishy face!

[Sirchow]

Cute pic