Vegeterian Chow Chow diet

General discussions about Chow Chows.

Moderator: chowadmin

Leeds01
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:16 am

Vegeterian Chow Chow diet

Post by Leeds01 »

I know opinion vary on vegetarian dog diets and wanted a few opinions. So, what's everyones opinion on starting a puppy chow around 8 weeks old on vegetarian puppy food that is available on many websites. Should everyone remember that dogs are omnivores or should they remember that they are hunting dogs who enjoy meat?

Thoughts...
User avatar
applebear
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 250
Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 1:21 pm

Re: Vegeterian Chow Chow diet

Post by applebear »

http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/canine-nu ... omnivores/

I'm personally not a fan, but I'm not a vegetarian either. I suppose it's to each their own, but I think forcing your [and I mean that general, I do not mean literally 'you' or anyone else in specific] beliefs on a animal that will choose meat over celery is a bit extreme. I can only decide for mine, and though I believe they need more than JUST meat [even those who feed raw or BARF, feed veggies and other things], I would never exclude it completely from their diet because that's what *I* want...just as if I had a rabbit, I wouldn't force him/her to eat meat just because I do.
Image
User avatar
Merlin
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 728
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:38 am
Location: Ontario

Re: Vegeterian Chow Chow diet

Post by Merlin »

Mother Nature doesn't lie.
If she wanted dogs to be vegetarians , she would have given them teeth that can crush cellulose and intestines long enough to process cellulose.
Dogs have neither, Nor do they have the teeth of omnivores like bears do,.

They have the teeth of a carnivore..... so... they are carnivores.
that doesn't mean they are not opportunistic eaters, especially if faced with starvation, but giving a dog a carrot has absolutely no bio-availability to do the dog , because the dog does not have the tools to process that type of food.
NEVER Support Back Yard Breeders & Puppy Mills
Contact Your local Chow Chow Association to find your Breeder of Merit!
Better Yet ! Adopt!
Leeds01
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:16 am

Vegeterian Chow Chow diet

Post by Leeds01 »

Thank for the replies so far, however being a vegetarian doesn't mean the dog will be eating vegetables all day. The soy meat in the food is a complete protein which has the same nutritional values as meat. Here are a few links:
http://www.veggiepet.co.uk/page4.htm
http://oscars-px.rtrk.co.uk/products/do ... n-and-lite
http://www.veggiepets.com/shop/vegetari ... ppies.html
wokman
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 575
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:31 pm
Location: Illinois, U.S.A.

Re: Vegeterian Chow Chow diet

Post by wokman »

I agree with the others; LET THEM EAT MEAT. What is good for us is not always good for them. A combination of meat and vegetables seems like a good balance of protein, fiber and vitamins for your fur friend. :mrgreen:
User avatar
Fozzbear
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 375
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:01 pm
Location: Cheshire, UK

Re: Vegeterian Chow Chow diet

Post by Fozzbear »

I feed my dogs the BARF diet - I am a real animal lover so it isn't always the nicest to be mixing up herbs and veggies with identifiable bits of farm animal (and BARF petfood suppliers don't seem to understand when you ask about welfare/farming methods). In my humble opinion, you are doing your dog a great injustice if you dont feed them as nature intended. Veggie diets for cats and dogs just don't make sense. I heard on the news the other day that there is a pet obesity crisis as people are feeding their pets the same foods that they eat, including chips and crisps and pizza etc. I believe that veggie pet diets are similarly misguided as they humanise animals/impose the owners values and habits upon them. I think that swapping in some alternative protien source is fine, and I'll look at doing that myself a bit, but (as the advert in England says - apologies to non-UK people)" Do I look like I'm stalking vegetables? I am a carnivore - feed me what I was born to eat - roar'!
User avatar
Cam Atis
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 732
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:32 am

Re: Vegeterian Chow Chow diet

Post by Cam Atis »

Hello Leed01, you can feed your dog a vegetarian diet (if you can even make them eat it) but you MUST remember that they are carnivore and not omnivore. The reason why you can make dogs eat vegetables with gusto is because of the scent of the meat that is used to sauteé those veggies. The dog will never eat a fresh carrot unless VERY hungry or plainly playing with it.
My point is? You should feed your dog some meat and bones because it meets the nutritional requirements better than soya based protein does. Sure it is claimed soya and meat protein are the same but we metabolise them differently and dogs too! We people are classed as omnivore before but now we are more of a frugavore/herbivore type clasification based on research which is correct. Meat makes us hypertensive, that diet does not harm carnivores (dogs). so it is up to you but dont let your dog suffer because of vegetarianism. ;-)
User avatar
TyChowgirl
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 587
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:22 pm

Re: Vegeterian Chow Chow diet

Post by TyChowgirl »

I think the thing most people are over looking in the question posed is how young to puppy is. I would never start a puppy on a diet that had the potential of robbing it of the nutrients it needs to grow. What if the soy protein isn't the same? What if being this is your first time experimenting with it, your puppy isn't getting enough vitamins and minerals it needs to grow into a healthy dog? If you want to start your dog on a different diet, that's your own personal belief then fine, do it when it's not going to hurt the developmental stage of the dog. Let us not also forget that the main thing that sets apart canines and felines is that dogs do have the capability to like, want, and need fruits and vegetables. They have the taste buds for it which tells them these things are acceptable and tasty, a sweet tooth if you will. Felines do not and are truer to the carnivorous nature because of it so I feel those things could be a good part of the canine diet. I like the raw diet, and my friend used to feed her lab on it. I would, if I had time to cook for myself and my husband half the time. He would literally be eating better than us on most days...so I found a good quality kibble that works for him. He still gets fresh meats, veggies, fruit, and sometimes cottage cheese or regular cheese (like mozzarella, gouda, or cheddar), but mainly those are special treats. If you're going to do this, I would strongly suggest you wait until the puppy stage is over and in the mean time continue to research the diet and look for long term effects. Also, consult your vet or a pet food expert. It never hurts to get a professional second opinion.
Image
User avatar
applebear
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 250
Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 1:21 pm

Re: Vegeterian Chow Chow diet

Post by applebear »

Leeds01 wrote:Thank for the replies so far, however being a vegetarian doesn't mean the dog will be eating vegetables all day. The soy meat in the food is a complete protein which has the same nutritional values as meat. Here are a few links:
http://www.veggiepet.co.uk/page4.htm
http://oscars-px.rtrk.co.uk/products/do ... n-and-lite
http://www.veggiepets.com/shop/vegetari ... ppies.html
I all ready knew this, so it has no effect on my original viewpoint. :) I think if you have to find supplements for meat, then maybe you're suppose to be eating meat...I have no problem with those who choose not to, but I'm thinking a dog would choose differently. I'm all for life, but I don't judge the wolf for eating the deer.
Image
User avatar
Merlin
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 728
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:38 am
Location: Ontario

Re: Vegeterian Chow Chow diet

Post by Merlin »

I think the thing most people are over looking in the question posed is how young to puppy is.
Age has absolutely nothing to do with it. The moment puppies are weaned by their mothers, they become lactose intolerant and can very very easily consume meat only. Soy is a plant protein and a more than well known allergen to almost all dogs, so I don't know why anyone would even consider soy as a possible, appropriate food source. Haven't we all finally learned that commercial foods that are wheat, soy or corn based a poor quality foods that have heavily effected our dogs??? Do you think that "real" or "fresh" soy makes it any better?

Just because you are a vegetarian doesn't make it ok to force your beliefs onto your dog. There is absolutely written no where that a dog's diet should contain vegetables. These fad diets are offered by zealots who have aversions to meat or trying to find a cheap way to compensate for the cost of meat or trying to find ways to substitute meat protein rather than feeding the dog meat.

To the person who said that dogs eat what smells good to them... dogs are not discerning eaters, sure they'll eat carrots, jello, fruitcake, poop, dirty underwear, old socks and roadkill. Mind you, at least roadkill offers quality nutrition to a dog. :)

Personally I think that people who go this route are foolish and selfish and putting their own needs before the needs of their dog. I feel sorry for the dog.
NEVER Support Back Yard Breeders & Puppy Mills
Contact Your local Chow Chow Association to find your Breeder of Merit!
Better Yet ! Adopt!
Leeds01
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:16 am

Vegeterian Chow Chow diet

Post by Leeds01 »

Merlin wrote:
I think the thing most people are over looking in the question posed is how young to puppy is.
Age has absolutely nothing to do with it. The moment puppies are weaned by their mothers, they become lactose intolerant and can very very easily consume meat only. Soy is a plant protein and a more than well known allergen to almost all dogs, so I don't know why anyone would even consider soy as a possible, appropriate food source. Haven't we all finally learned that commercial foods that are wheat, soy or corn based a poor quality foods that have heavily effected our dogs??? Do you think that "real" or "fresh" soy makes it any better?

Just because you are a vegetarian doesn't make it ok to force your beliefs onto your dog. There is absolutely written no where that a dog's diet should contain vegetables. These fad diets are offered by zealots who have aversions to meat or trying to find a cheap way to compensate for the cost of meat or trying to find ways to substitute meat protein rather than feeding the dog meat.

To the person who said that dogs eat what smells good to them... dogs are not discerning eaters, sure they'll eat carrots, jello, fruitcake, poop, dirty underwear, old socks and roadkill. Mind you, at least roadkill offers quality nutrition to a dog. :)

Personally I think that people who go this route are foolish and selfish and putting their own needs before the needs of their dog. I feel sorry for the dog.
Good post.
Me & Tess
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 510
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:53 am

Re: Vegeterian Chow Chow diet

Post by Me & Tess »

Lilly gets animal protein, & a tablespoon of Brown Cow yogurt for desert, occasionally a piece of banana or avocado as a treat. She also gets slivers of a good quality cheddar as a treat. What I worry about is any preservatives in any food (both for human & chow). Tess would eat grass & was very selective. She also ate dirt from a particular place on our creek. It must have been for the minerals.
User avatar
Fozzbear
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 375
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:01 pm
Location: Cheshire, UK

Re: Vegeterian Chow Chow diet

Post by Fozzbear »

And so the resounding opinion is - only people who shouldnt really have a dog feed them vegetarian diets. You aren't thinking of it are you?
sara
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2012 2:34 pm

Re: Vegeterian Chow Chow diet

Post by sara »

to add my tiny 2 p's worth...I shudder at the thought,
its extremely selfish in my opinion to deny a dog meat because of the owners views on meat eating,
I entirely agree with Fozzbears post above and his comment of " only people who shouldnt really have a dog feed them vegetarian diets"
so there you go, i pray the op is taking it all in, especially from educated posters like Merlin. Its a bit more than peoples opinions here. As can be seen throughout this thread, a good dog owner knows their dog needs meat, gosh even primary school children know this fact.
Leeds01
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:16 am

Vegeterian Chow Chow diet

Post by Leeds01 »

Fozzbear wrote:And so the resounding opinion is - only people who shouldnt really have a dog feed them vegetarian diets. You aren't thinking of it are you?
No i'm not thinking about it, I just thought it would be a good discussion point as my girlfriends vegetarian and we had a discussion about it a couple of days ago. Seems like the general consensus is that a chow shouldn't be put on a vegetarian diet. Would be good to see if anyone actually thinks it's a good idea?
sara
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2012 2:34 pm

Re: Vegeterian Chow Chow diet

Post by sara »

Leeds01 wrote:
Fozzbear wrote:And so the resounding opinion is - only people who shouldnt really have a dog feed them vegetarian diets. You aren't thinking of it are you?
No i'm not thinking about it, I just thought it would be a good discussion point as my girlfriends vegetarian and we had a discussion about it a couple of days ago. Seems like the general consensus is that a chow shouldn't be put on a vegetarian diet. Would be good to see if anyone actually thinks it's a good idea?

Sorry, so sorry I didn't read thread correctly, just skimmed over, I see now you just posed the question of folks opinion.

I must add that i feel very strongly about this kind of stuff where in my opinion it does harm the dog, just like I feel very strongly about parents feeding their of spring a veggie diet, I believe the child should have the choice not something that is forced upon them by the parent. I bet that statement will get people going but I think I have always felt quite strongly about this kinda thing.
giseleassink
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:14 am

Re: Vegeterian Chow Chow diet

Post by giseleassink »

Did you ever talked with you vet on this???
Chows have a delicate digest system… not provide them with the nutrients of the meat can cause you puppies to not develop well and you might also be sentencing you dog to get sick when older.. but off course you can get him being vegetarian and he will be ok with that dogs are able to survive with what they have but how well… One good thing is that you are trying give him something different from the pet store food and that is good but you might want to do more research and talk with your vet…
Rory's Dad
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 1708
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 6:48 am
Location: Mansfield, MA USA

Re: Vegeterian Chow Chow diet

Post by Rory's Dad »

My dogs are almost the exact opposite. Not truly a raw diet, we cook for them both. Boiled boneless chicken breast and cooked hamburg are alternated for dinner. Lowfat cottage cheese is breakfast. Both diets are supplemented with a good quality kibble type food.

Both dogs...a year and a half old male, and a 4 month old female, are very healthy, have good weight, and excellent coats. Amber, the 4 month old, actually likes some veggies (carrots, spinach leaf, etc), but i think those are more teething items than nutrition. Rory, our male, will play with a red pepper here and there but again its a flip toy, not a food.

We feed for interest and protein levels. As Merlin said, there is very little bio-value in veggies. They just can't process it effectively. Proper bone density and growth patterns will be effected. Without proper chewing teeth and gums become ineffective as well. In my opinion, its a long chain of potential consequences.

Feeding time is also an excercise in behavior. I expect certain behavior from the 2 of them before placing their bowls. They are reliant on me for their dinners, thus placing me ahead of either of them in the pack. If they aren't interested in the food, i can't get that. Training, for me, follows a similar pattern. It needs to be balanced between treat/food reward and attention/positive feedback. A well timed 'good girl' and a belly rub or an ear massage go to great lengths as well following a positive session.
User avatar
Cam Atis
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 732
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:32 am

Re: Vegeterian Chow Chow diet

Post by Cam Atis »

So how's the verdict? Between you and your gf? Obviously all here are telling you what is obvious. :D have a good day.
Leeds01
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:16 am

Vegeterian Chow Chow diet

Post by Leeds01 »

Cam Atis wrote:So how's the verdict? Between you and your gf? Obviously all here are telling you what is obvious. :D have a good day.
Lol defiantly not giving the pups a veggie diet. Although a lot of peoples arguments on here seem to be based on the idea that a veggie diet doesn't give the dog's enough protein, in my opinion theres no evidence to suggest this when giving a SOY protein which is a complete protein just like chicken or any other meat. The only thing that's been mentioned against soy is that chows have a delicate stomach, which I guess is true.
User avatar
Cam Atis
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 732
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:32 am

Re: Vegeterian Chow Chow diet

Post by Cam Atis »

Soy protein from soya beans is not the same as the meat protein. Trust me. I know. Theoretically, soy pro is a good alternative to meat, i know that , for us humans , we can get away with it. For dogs, not so much. You can feed him both. But not solely on the other. Those telling you or those writing that soy pro is just the same as meat pro say so based on human studies. MAYBE if they even bothered to do a double blind study on the effects to dogs of soy based proteins as compared to meat based proteins on a five year period. :-)
User avatar
Victory
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 3658
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:03 am
Location: North Chesterfield, (Right outside Richmond) Virginia

Re: Vegeterian Chow Chow diet

Post by Victory »

Actually, it's the length of the intestinal track that is the culprit. Humans have a very long intestinal track, this allows us to throughly process all the foods we eat very efficiently. (Horses as true herbivores actually don't process foods very well, they just eat huge quanities.) Carnavores have short intestinal tracks that are highly efficient at breaking down and absorbing the nutreints from proteins and fats. Exclusively proteins and fats, and those proteins should come from non-plant sources because they just can't break down the walls of plant fibers at all. Most folks on here have seen the difference in their dogs, (not just chows) digestive quality by the amount of poop they produce, a dog with a diet full of carbs from plants and grains first with proteins from meats being 4, 5 or 6 ingredients will produce huge piles of poop. Analysis of this poop will show huge amounts of undigested food. Diets like these also over work the digestive system, lead to overweight problems, and can cause real health issues. Diets high in meat proteins, with very little to no carbohydrates and plant matter, lead to small amounts of poop that show the dog is digesting up to 90% of fat, and even more of the meat protein and absorbing almost all water from their diet.

This leads to a lean, healthy dog with clear eyes, strong teeth and bone, with good bone density, strong muscles with good tone, healthy skin and good thick coats and lots of energy.

Take a look at this page for more info: http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/carn_h ... ison2.html
Victory, Darkwind, (our angel), Firesong, and Dreamdancer
Image
Thank you SweetPea!
User avatar
Victory
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 3658
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:03 am
Location: North Chesterfield, (Right outside Richmond) Virginia

Re: Vegeterian Chow Chow diet

Post by Victory »

Cam Atis wrote:Soy protein from soya beans is not the same as the meat protein. Trust me. I know. Theoretically, soy pro is a good alternative to meat, i know that , for us humans , we can get away with it. For dogs, not so much. You can feed him both. But not solely on the other. Those telling you or those writing that soy pro is just the same as meat pro say so based on human studies. MAYBE if they even bothered to do a double blind study on the effects to dogs of soy based proteins as compared to meat based proteins on a five year period. :-)
A study like this would have very negative consequences in the US, as it is a KNOWN fact that dogs and cats can't digest soy correctly so putting them on a soy diet would be starving them. Any company that pulled such a stunt would be hounded into the pavement by animal rights groups.
Victory, Darkwind, (our angel), Firesong, and Dreamdancer
Image
Thank you SweetPea!
Leeds01
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:16 am

Vegeterian Chow Chow diet

Post by Leeds01 »

It seems if people go by the posts in this thread the companies selling Vegetarian Soy dog food should be lynched. I mean how do these companies survive if it's doing such damage to the dogs. Crazy..
User avatar
Victory
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 3658
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:03 am
Location: North Chesterfield, (Right outside Richmond) Virginia

Re: Vegeterian Chow Chow diet

Post by Victory »

Leeds01 wrote:It seems if people go by the posts in this thread the companies selling Vegetarian Soy dog food should be lynched. I mean how do these companies survive if it's doing such damage to the dogs. Crazy..
When I do a search I find mostly soy FREE foods, and a lot of the so-called vegitarian foods, use chicken and/or fish. Vegitarian is not Vegan, so the main source of protein in many vegitarian dog and cat foods is the same as many human vegitarian diets, poultry and fish. Which are really good sources of protein for many dogs who may be allergic to beef and lamb.
Victory, Darkwind, (our angel), Firesong, and Dreamdancer
Image
Thank you SweetPea!
Post Reply