She bit me, now what???

raykro23 · Post by **raykro23** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:48 pm

Hey Chow family, The inevitable has happened and I'm torn on what to do next. My beautiful sweet girl bit me fairly bad and the groomer even worst yesterday. What is so sad we where doing SO well in the process. made it through initial brusing, bath, blo out and was just about to finish when before we were able to get the muzzle back on she got the both of us.
Short history, Pooh is a resuce I will be contacting her kennel, I've had her for two years. Grooming has been a problem from the beginning but more so after moving our of boston, south. Would love your input or suggestion on next steps. I imagine something similiar may have happened to some of your who have resuced this amazing breed. Thanks in advance.

Boogie and Linda · Post by **Boogie and Linda** » Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:28 pm

Well, first off, I am very sorry that you and the groomer were bitten. I don't feel that I have enough details to reply with anything specific but it seems like you knew that the grooming was going to be difficult. Is it possible that you were pushing to do too much? If it is that difficult to groom your chow you may want to just stick with brushing and not do baths. Also, I am curious, how did your chow manage to bite you both? And is this the first time your chow has bitten anyone? I have never been fully bitten before but have been given warnings. I have one chow that doesnt like being brushed and muzzling him just makes him worse. When I receive a warning I stop and address the warning with my chow then usually finish what I was in the middle of doing and then let him go and start again later.

Fozzbear · Post by **Fozzbear** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:44 am

The biting is obviously situation-specific so that is easier to deal with than general, unpredictable aggression.
Chows don't necessarily need baths - brushing alone can be just fine.
Maybe think about getting the advice of a trainer - possibly very short grooming sessions with high-value rewards may be a way forward.

raykro23 · Post by **raykro23** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:55 am

Thanks Fozzbear and Linda for your reponses.

Yes agree the agression is situational around grooming. It's the brushing that she does not like. She actually likes the bath and the blow dry.
Ithought my helping would make it a better experience. It starte out really well actually. Muzzless only during the brushing. lots of chicken and cheese treats.
The groomer got Pooh back on the tabe for the last round of grooming. I really thought she was doing okay. there was a nice break. She wasn't resisting growing or anything when getting her back on the table.
It did not look like the groomer did anything, had not starting brushing or anything. In hind sight it she may have rubed her right paw. At the time did not realize she was having a problem withthat paw. After getting her off the table, she was favoring the right paw so that may have been the case. I'm really not sure about that. After Pooh bite the groomer, I was disciplined by saying know, held her snout, said no. After the groomer was off getting taken care of, I was talking to pooh I think calm, but probably not. I was just so surprised and felt really bad for the groomer. I then tried to put the muzzle on and that is when she got me, bruise onthe fore arm, puncture inthe thumb and wrist. It happens so quick I just don't know, what was next. Think I yelled you don't bite me. She pretty sure growled. I didn't touch her. just kept saying you don't bite me. then i left her went to the other room with the groomer and the vet. First feelings were I may have to put Pooh down and that breaks my heart. She is such a great girl in every other way. This is pretty much an account. Hopefully that helps. Appreciate your input good and bad.

Are trainers able to help with grooming issues?

Thanks again.

Sirchow · Post by **Sirchow** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:21 am

I know someone with a rescue chow who also doesn't like being groomed. They do a little and often at home. You should be watching your dog for facial, body and tail communication and you stop, back off and leave them alone, before they bite you. Some chows will never be able to go to the groomers and some will never be able to be washed but surely when you take on a rescue you take it on the understanding that it may be a damaged dog in some way or an other. You cant expect them to behave the same as a puppy you had from eight weeks. I think that Pooh sounds like she put up with an awful lot and most likely tried to tell you so many ways to stop before she did the only thing that you understood and bit. If you put her in this situation again and she bites again then not only will it be your fault but you are teaching her to bite you to stop you doing something. You can get dry shampoos but to be honest I have chow who hates being bathed and I did have her from a puppy and if anyone but me bathed her I suspect she might bite. She had been two years between baths and didn't smell. I recently had to bath her as she was ill and got in a mess and I know from her body language that we were close to her limit but I gave her space and didn't dry her afterwards. I was more interested in her well being than making her pretty

Sorry if that comes across a bit baldly but I would hate to see you loose trust in each other over this issue.

Fozzbear · Post by **Fozzbear** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:38 am

This is not a problem that requires you putting Pooh down! You simply have to re-think the grooming issue.

chunkymonkeys · Post by **chunkymonkeys** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:36 pm

First of all, thank you for rescuing a Chow! We wouldn't be on here if we didn't adore these majestic dogs and their quirks. With my two, Boo Boo and Shima, they would get so anxious during their vet visits that we decided on a small dose of ace promazine, a mild sedative for dogs. I realize some people may not like the idea, but it takes the edge off their visits. I don't take them to a groomer, and bathe them in the tub and towel dry. Boo loves the blow dryer, whereas Shima loves soaking in the water. Brushing is difficult though, and when they have enough they get up and walk away from me. Good luck to you!

ski · Post by **ski** » Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:25 pm

I had Frisco for a few months when I took him to the groomer. Frisco, a black chow rescue, had never shown any aggression whatsoever. Yep...he bit the groomer. I was shocked. It turns out he was petrified of anything with a handle...even a swiffer. He was two when we got him. You never know what might have been in their past. That incident was five years ago. We don't take him to a groomer...we brush and bathe him. Never been aggressive since then. He is a love. He lets us brush him but we do it very slowly and with treats.

raykro23 · Post by **raykro23** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:51 am

Thank you all for the input,
Sirchow no worries I appreciate the honesty. I am definitly willing to own my responsibility in this situation.
Pooh actually likes the bath and blow dry portions. She struggles with the brushing. If i simply sit the brush near pooh she runs away to another room. I started clipping the ends the snags from the blow dry to keep from needing to brush them. Since Pooh isinthe mist of multing, my fear is this is a vicious cycl that will get worst before better if I'm not able to get the dead loose hair out.
So, the other dreaded thought is a shave. Ughhhhhh we all know how that too is a bad option. i tell you I'm between a rock and a hard place.
I am willing to take small steps. I don't think miss pooh trust me any longer since i was helping the groomer, but we'll see.
New question, for those who have little people that don't like the brushing what do you do during the multing time.
Are there such things as a brush made for sensitive skin?

Again thank you all for the feedback.

Victory · Post by **Victory** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:12 pm

Have you thougth of just using your hands? When you pet her, just pet the fur backwards, comb through it with your fingers and remove the tufts of hair manually. It's not as effective as a good combing, and she's not going to look as great, but with a blow dry, it will help.

You could begin like this and then use a wide toothed undercoat rake gently, if you do it right she might not even notice the difference. Just be very, very gentle, if you hit a snag or mat and it starts to pull, stop and go to another area. Also before any grooming, make sure she doesn't have any sore areas. I always start with a good petting, I touch and feel all over, check their paws for soreness, (especially in the winter, when the cold, ice, salt and such can cause sore feet) My girl is 12 now and has some stiffness in her hind end. So I run my hands well over her hips, bottom and both hind legs, I watch and feel to see if she stiffens or tries to move away from me, this would indicate soreness, and then I don't bother brusing or combing her there that time.

Seriously, how many of us would put up with being touched all over if we didn't feel good? Not many of us. One of the key words with chows, (and many other breeds) is respect. If your chow is showing you in every possible way before biting that they have had enough, listen to them. Grooming or not grooming is not a life threatening issue, if your chow doesn't want to be groomed well and hasn't been covered in a toxic chemical there is no reason to force the issue.

A warning about using Ace. Some canines respond well to this drug and calm down nicely, others do the exact opposite and go berserk. The only calming drug I've ever used on a chow has been valium, worked great, no side effects at all, just kept MingToy from reacting to the noise of the plane we were on, I couldn't even tell he'd had anything when we landed except he was calm. Vets don't like prescribing it any more because it is a human drug and there are concerns about it being used by the human.

Me & Tess · Post by **Me & Tess** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:26 pm

I have a bit of a problem with Lilly and brushing too. I bought a brush from Petco that is like a normal hair brush on one side and on the other is for the undercoat & does not have the sharp barbs. I've been starting with the hair brush then changing sides. I did get a growl & snarl the other night (that was the second instance). I have also been cutting here and there - mostly under her arm pits. My Tessie loved a vigorous brushing, it's so different will Lilly. Maybe Lilly has sensitive skin too like your Chow, and is not used to being brushed. We never know what our rescued Chow Chow's have gone through in their lives before us (LBU). We just have to have patience.

giseleassink · Post by **giseleassink** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:16 pm

Yep all about the signs.. Mika hates to get brushed behind her ears.. but she loves her paws to be brushed…so I keep going back and forward.. Comb a little her ears, comb the rest of the body, comb her paws when she offers, and back to the ears, give her some rest… sometime I do half body one day half two days after.. Depends on her and how much she can take…
I don’t take her to groomers I don’t think they are delicate enough to deal with her or any long hair dog or any dogs  I’m lucky enough that I can go two blocks from my house where there is a self-wash.. so I can take her there and use all their tools and let the mess to them to clean!!! It takes me two hours to get it done.. but I have all the patience in the world to deal with her…
Trainers can help to get your dog focused on you… but I don’t think it can prevent your dog to be stressed of the situation..
Good luck! And do not put you dog down 

chowpups · Post by **chowpups** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:23 pm

My chow had no issues with any grooming but
I've noticed my g. Retriever is very sensitive
And I use a natural bristle brush cause as soon as
She feels any pin brushes she runs away! Maybe your chow
Is sensitive too? Worth a try but it doesn't really get into a
Chows undercoat much but might help train her to not hate brushing ???

Cam Atis · Post by **Cam Atis** » Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:32 pm

Did you try find what could be causing the stress on her on the day she bit you?
A dog from my opinion will not just bite especially you. Maybe the groomer she can bite out of spite.
maybe something is bothering her - and you might have touched that part of her body that bothers her and so she reacted if you haven't picked up the signs she was giving you. Just an opinion.

Cam Atis · Post by **Cam Atis** » Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:45 pm

any dog, not the chow breed only, can potentially bite if you keep on insisting what you want and they dont want it. Best is to leave them alone and trust their decision. Else, if you need to really do a necessary chore, you have to have a bait - food to keep her occupied. It will be messy and any professional person called unto the scene might not have the patience that you have. but that's the way I think is the best for dogs. Most were usually misunderstood by humans. We forget they can't talk and it is us who has to detect what it is they must be wanting. Muzzle must not be removed until your dog has calmed down and well, the experience must not be traumatic or else, they'd be giddy next time and trust ratings will plummet

Piff Poff · Post by **Piff Poff** » Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:22 am

Henry is a fuss pot when it comes to grooming. He'll go to the groomers and be washed bathed and brushed, he's really good. At home when I brush him, sometimes there is no chance, it's just not worth the stress for either of us, other times he'll do a little bit and sometimes he'll actually come and lay down and be really good, but I only ever get one side done, he hates his paws and tummy being done and under his chin, he tells me this by moving his paws - it may only be 1/2 inch and a puff, if he wants an area left alone he'll move in such a way that it is not easy to brush him there, like with his chin and chest area's he'll put his head down, if he lays on his side and I can get to some tummy he'll roll back onto his tummy, same with back legs, if I am brushing there and he has had enough he will turn over. I have learnt that if I push it with these ares he gets antsy and I have had a discontented grumble I wont say growl as it has never got that far. When he gets up and moves away, I can sometimes get him to come back to do a bit on the other side but that rarely lasts for long, grooming at home never lasts for much more than 20 minutes, but he never has a problem going to the groomers, I know he doesn't like it because he always tries to leave with me but he'll go off with any of the groomers without a problem.

onthemove · Post by **onthemove** » Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:37 pm

If your chow does not mind the dryer, use it on her dry fur. It will help loosen and eliminate the the shedding under coat.

I take my chow outside and blow his fur out regularly. It helps keep him clean, and he loves it.

Pinoy51 · Post by **Pinoy51** » Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:36 pm

The summary of all what has been said here don't push your Chow over the edge if he really can't take things anymore and ensur there is no pain in whatever you want him to do or being done to him. Sounds like common sense, but it get sometimes forgotten in the haste of getting things done or wanting it to be perfect.
I'm listening and watching Simba and Nala well when I groom them, we never go to the groomer as I don't want anything to happen like what is discussed here.
So I take it on me to give them a shower and blow dry once a week and daily brush.
Brushing is no problem for Simba, but Nala it has to be done fast. Both don't like shower and blow dry but respect me enough to let me do it. I give them as much freedom as possible e.g. they can walk around in the shower and I follow with shampoo and hose.
They can sit down, lie down stand-up, no muzzle no leash. I just don't let them leave me until i say so.
We get through this every Saturday with dignity and some fun before and after

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