Borscht Being Aggressive towards Charlie

[JoeyKelly]

Hello everyone,
I'd really appreciate it if you guys could lend me some advice in my situation. Charlie is 4 and Borscht is not quite a year old. I don't know if you had seen my earlier post but about 4 months ago we found Charlie living on the streets and took him in. Everything has been pretty much perfect up til this point. For some reason just a couple weeks ago and out of nowhere the female, (Borscht) has started aggressively attacking Charlie. This happens mostly over treats so I've been very careful when giving them some, paying close attention to the details of her eye contact with him and calming her down if it seems she's going to lash out at him. But now she is starting to do it at other times as well. My wife dropped a noodle on the floor and that set her off! I'm pretty sure shes the alpha, so I've been careful to greet her first when I first come home, as this also is a problem area... If she thinks he's going to jump in front of her to get the attention first, she'll begin to attack, and so on. So I am not sure what to do, as I try to discipline her by scaring her afterwards. I have never spanked her physically before and am not sure if I should. Also, if it helps she went through her first estrus cycle last in December and is not Spayed. Charlie, however is neutered. Currently we have them separated but I REALLY don't want to continue to live with them in two separate rooms. Thanks so much guys!

Joey

[applebear]

When I brought Rolyx home, he did the exact same thing...he mostly triggered over his food [even though my other dog Knarly, was way across the room nowhere near or interested in that matter], but he'd trigger over silly things too...like a plastic bag laying on the floor, that he felt was something special and wanted to assure he made it clear HE got it, not knar. Well no, that's not going to fly...especially when Knarly is 8 pounds to his 65+. With Borscht, it could be because she is starting to mature and wanting to establish her role, but regardless of reason...it's still the same outcome.

I started doing NILIF [Nothing in Life is Free] with him and things flipped from there. There's no reason for spanking, especially with this method...you most likely do more harm than good there. NILIF is a very effective, but non-aggressive way to get your dog to learn roles. Once I started doing this method, Rolyx stopped attacking and waited for MY ok to take food...he stopped putting the weight of his status on his shoulders over Knar and let me take over that role. Knarly now goes right up to Ro while he is eating and Ro does nothing. He glances slightly and then goes back to eating. No stare downs, no eye threats, nothing. Same with treats, toys and getting pet.

Look up NILIF online and you should get a good selection of things to pop up and guide you. Start using it on BOTH your dogs, not just the problem one. Also look up crate rotations [think it is called Crate and Rotate], as there are things there you can do too to help mellow out things if it's getting real serious.

[Fozzbear]

I agree that scaring or hitting your dog is the worst possible thing to do.
NILF is the way to go with all chows.
Personally, I dont agree with this thing about treating one dog as the alpha - YOU are the alpha! You should greet/treat whoever is the most calm and well-behaved dog at that moment. By treating your girl as the boss, she will start to act that way - and it seems that that is the problem.
Have you considered spaying her too? It has many health benefits but may help to make her behave better around Charlie.

[Victory]

Never hit a chow, ever. And don't try scaring her, she'll only become afraid of you and in the end worse. Start NILF immedieatly, also timeouts, when she completely loses it, put her in a time out, 20minutes minimum where she is not a part of the family at all, let him be with you. Ignore her. she'll cry, bark and even may try digging her way out of where ever she is, don't let her back until she calms down and is quiet, then let her out and ignore her, if she immedieatly goes after him again, time out again. It won't take long before she gets it. Part of it is her age, she's at the age where many chows try to take over, they are teenagers and act out, it is this time that you have to put your foot down firmly, but kindly and reenforce the fact that you are the boss, not them.

Also many females are hyper and need to work out their aggression somehow and the males are the ones who get it the most. Spaying her will NOT stop this behavior, it might in fact get worse, (but you should still spay unless you are showing her and planning to breedl later) the behavior can be nipped in the bud through NILF and timeouts. My girl is hyper and can become food aggressive with my males, (and she's being a bit worse lately as she gets a bit older) but I stop her with a word, and she got a time out just yesterday for ignoring the word. She's been really good today.

Also make sure they are both healthy, if she has any health issues it will make her grouchy, and if he smells sick to her, her instincts might make her attack him, to keep a sick animal away from her potential puppies. (no she doesn't think it all out like that but her instincts tell her to behave like this)

[Merlin]

If you are going to keep these two dogs together you need to have her spayed. That will solve most of your problems right there.
It's pointless endeavour that you've got going there until you get that done. ( Contrary to what you are being told here). a "whole" dog living with a sterilized one will almost always exhibit adversity towards each other. It's nothing new and is often seen.

Outside of that, this breed is noted for being pre-occupied with dominance and at some point the both of them are going to have to work it out with your help, because even if you DO stop the aggression when you are present, they'll continue their unwanted relationship when you are not there.

You can help for now by taking away treats. ( remove the catalyst). If you are in training mode consider a clicker instead.

Best of luck.

[JoeyKelly]

Thanks. I really appreciate everyone's response, but it seems as though most people have vary different opinions! I will start the NILIF training now. But she is now snapping over everything, even perching at the window! I have a leash on her that she is wearing around and will pull her back if she tries it again and put her immediately in time out.

[wokman]

It is age related aggression; immature (Borscht) to mature (Charlie). I agree with Victory, persistent punishment for Borscht by exclusion from the Pack and no recognition on return. The terrible two's have arrived a time when young dogs want to establish their position as you know. I have seen many Rescues recommended as being the only dog in house hold. Some dogs want to be the only ones for their humans. Always check Charlie for punctures after Borscht attacks him to avoid infection.
Poor Charlie, abandoned, taken in and now living under constant threat of attack, life can be cruel.

[P.R. Bear]

I'm not as experienced with chows as many of the members here, but I just wanted to add my 2cents. I'm having the same problem with my 1yr old girl. She decided a couple of months ago that she has a serious problem with our collie. Up until then they were best buds. We are now working with a behaviorlist to try to solve the problem. There could be a 100 reasons as to why she is acting out, with us Bear is not reading Bennys signals. He is being submissive to her but she doesn't see it. She is super sensitive to stimuli and will go on the attack. We are working on decensitizing her to Benny and have put her on puppy prozac to try to get her on an even keel. Dr. thinks it may be poor breeding. That said, we too are a house divided so I know how tough it is. We are also doing the NILIF as well as the time outs when she is not being polite. Checking into a behaviorlist could be a good option for you if nothing else is working. They have a lot of great information as well as training techniques. Another helpful source is a book title "How to behave so your dog behaves", lots of interesing info and tips in there as well. I hope everything calms down with your two. It's heartbreaking to see our babies not getting along.

[Merlin]

But she is now snapping over everything, even perching at the window!

What would really help you also is taking this puppy to obedience school and putting some training into her.
That will also make a world of difference.

[Merlin]

I'm not as experienced with chows as many of the members here, but I just wanted to add my 2cents.

You're doing all the right things by working with a professional and learning how to handle your situation (s) effectively. It may take time, but you'll be triumphant in the end.
I wish more people would opt for your route. There'd be a lot less chows sitting in shelters.

[Pinoy51]

Okay, two dogs not getting along, is really the most nerve racking situation in a pack.
And this is my clue to the story: "nerve racking".
It looks there is permanent tension in the pack and even the pack leader is unsure what to do.
If you want chaos, thats the recipe right there.
Don't think about who is the alpha and what is the trigger and so on.
You're the alpha! Everyone is following you're rules. That's how I treat my six dogs, whoever steps over the boundary get's reprimanded, who behaves well get the praise. As simple as that.
This stops all the nonsense with triggered by plastic on the floor, "I want to be pet first", etc.
Once they see you as alpha they stop fighting over small stuff.
How do you reprimand? Of course no slapping, scaring etc. NO EMOTIONS, never act out of anger, frustration etc. Be calm, assertive.
My first "punishment" is sound, sharp hissing sound. Guess what, the one doing the nasty thing, is the one stopping what he/she is doing the rest remain calm. This only works again for the small stuff, like chewing furnitures, getting a newspaper from the chair.
Now food aggression is way more serious. Here I focus on the one being the food possessive.
NILF is indeed what works there, sit first, give me paw, roll over etc. treats are never free. Who is the most eager get's them last, calm plus doing what I want, get's the treat. I physical block the one trying to steel leftovers from the others etc.
In general bad behavior needs to be addressed before it becomes a quarrel, I always react to intention with my sound, with re-action to action. I stop behavior issues before they become a fight.

[Sarahloo]

Poor Charlie, abandoned, taken in and now living under constant threat of attack, life can be cruel.

Now don't be overdramatic. He lives with lovely people now who watch over him and do everything to keep him safe!
Is there any chance they're just play-fighting? If there's no blood, maybe they're just wrestling? I guess what I'm asking is, How bad is it?

[JoeyKelly]

Thanks you so much... It's actually very bad and there has been a lot of blood. I know, I know it sounds bad but Charlie was taken to the vet and given antibiotics and is doing much better.He is the most loving dog I have ever met and wants constantly to be held and petted and told that he's loved, and this wonderful personality has not changed any from the fights. He was very matted and timid and angry when we first took him in, he went through a shedding and was looking very beautiful and acting super loving in just a couple months so regardless of this situation with Borscht, he has come a long, long way. His coat is again messed up due to the fight but that will grow back. They are now separated and pottying at separate times. They receive equal attention from us but the are in separate rooms for now and are walked separately. The only thing separating them is a baby gate which is funny because they snuggle up to each other with the gate between them, this can be deceiving though because as soon as they are together she'll become envious of something, something very small, and immediately begin to attack. The've had a total of 6 fights, and I'll tolerate no more so unfortunately the separation is a must. We are visiting a renowned behaviorist this week and I hope for the best as she's not quite a year old and she is full of energy which I am sure is contributing. We'll see, if in the end they live in two separate room then so be it, I'll still have two sweet loving Chow's in my life, but we are going to try everything to work through this.