new pup and older dog + misc. info

[Pirate & Pandora]

My boyfriend and I recently got a chow chow puppy (she was 8 weeks old when I got her from the breeder.) I have had many dogs before but they were all small or toy dogs. I have owned a jack Russel terrier, cocked spaniel, 2 Italian greyhounds, and a Chihuahua but never a chow as my parents only let me have small dogs. My chihuahua unfortunately passed away a few years ago and its taken me many years to recover from this loss. 2 weeks ago and after much research I have decided to get a chow because of their immense beauty as well as their independent nature.

My chow, a cream chow named Pandora, has been exceptionally well behaved and is potty trained as well as understanding the basic commands of sit and come (though she only pays attention some of the time.) I let her free graze on 2 cups of food from about 7 in the morning until 8 at night limiting her food to the correct proportion and taking her training treats and food for her Kong out of her designated food.

My problem is that I though I understand the chow is a special breed with different needs from my previous pets I am unsure about the best ways to raise and train and socialize her. Research through the internet has sufficiently confused me. For example some sites say I should crate train a chow while others discourage this behavior, some say I should add water to her food to help prevent bloat but the vet told me this was not a good idea.

Also I live with 2 cats ( the cats are not permanent members of the household but i am baby sitting them for a couple of months as their owner sells her house, gets married, and goes on honeymoon) and often bring Pandora to my father and sister's house to socialize her with new people and our Italian greyhound. the cats seem to understand Pandora is a new family member and stay their distance though Pandora try hard to get them to play with her. The Italian greyhound at my fathers is old (15 years old in June) and every time we are there visiting Pandora tries to play with her but since she is so old and has many health problems like arthritis she does not want to play. The greyhound seems excited to have a new puppy around but. Just is incapable of playing.

while visiting my dad Pandora will nip at the elderly greyhound and scare her and is very possessive of the water bowl. she also tries to eat the greyhounds special soft food that the greyhound gets during mealtime due to her loss of teeth. Pandora will chase the other dog away from her food really scaring the old dog so she can indulge herself I in this forbidden food. I do not want my teething puppy eating soft food because I know it increases plaque build up.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to teach my chow puppy the proper way to interact with the cats and elder dog, helpful tips or tricks on chow training, or any other useful information a new chow owner should be aware of?

I know chows need to be well socialized and Pandora loooooooves people and other puppied, she is just mean to the cats and elderly dogs and scared of large dogs or any dogs that bark.

Any information an actual chow owner can give me would be extremely useful because as I said before all the information I get is contradictory and confusing.

Thanks so much!
Pirate and Pandora

[Auddymay]

If Pandora is UTD on her shots, start taking her to a petshop like Petco or Petsmart, every day if you can. The more interaction with other animals at this stage, the better. Also, the same goes with people. The more, the better. As for your Dad's, take the food off the floor when you are there, or correct/redirect everytime she tries to eat it. Learning the command LEAVE IT would be a good tool here. If you do not know how to teach this command, I recommend a puppy basic training class. We did a 10 week at Petsmart with our now 7 year old Chow and it is part of the curriculum. Good for socializing as well. Do not let her monopolize the water dish. When she shows an unwelcome behavior, again, the LEAVE IT command would be a good tool, as well as an
unh-unh and physical removal, either by walking her down (get between her and the bowl and walk her away) or picking her up and moving her.

Good luck, and congratulations on your new Chowling.

[Pirate & Pandora]

Thank you. I do pick up the other dogs bowl when she is not eating, but if Pandora notices that the greyhound is eating she runs over there to try and snatch a bite before the greyhound finishes. I generally take her outside or to another room while the soft food is out which works well but I would like her to remember the rules even when I'm nit there watching. The water idea with walking her away is very helpful I will have to try it!

Pandora is UTD on her shots but is still to young to get her rabies shot. The people at petsmart told me she cannot take a training class until she has gotten her rabies shot at 16 weeks. I've never used petsmart as trainers and the online reviews are mixed, did you get good results with petsmart? I have been using the training techniques taught to me when training my previous pets, but they obviously were not as stubborn as my chowling.

I have taught her not to nip/mouth/bite and she listens very well when I tell her no, but she only listens to me. She will not take commands from any other person. We practice our training at least twice a day in short sessions and at least one of the sessions includes my boyfriend or another person giving her the same commands, but she just ignores them and looks at me. I will start her in a training course as soon as she is eligible but is there anything I can do to encourage her to follow the rules when I am away and to listen to the commands given by people she interacts with frequently?

Oh and how do I know when my chow is "on guard"?

Thanks for the advice!
Pirate and Pandora

[Auddymay]

Well, Chows are generally always 'on alert'. I know just what you mean by only listening to you. Chows can over-bond with their person. You are doing exactly right. Have others work with her. Remove yourself if possible. Look up NILF as well. It stands for Nothing in Life is Free.
I had good luck, but only because I was training myself as well as my Chow. Just learning the correct hand signals and clicker training was enough. My trainer was so-so at best. And we ended up being the only ones in our class, so no socializing except the random dogs in the store. Really, the hand-out they gave us every week and then a basic demonstration was adequate. A motivated human student cn overcome a marginal instructor. Still, if you want to be sure, go check the training schedule, and observe a class. If you see a confident trainer, go for it!

[nnguyentang]

I actually had an 8 week lab, she was up to date with shots and I took her to a local PetSmart for a training class, and let me tell you! The trainer doesn't give you full attention, and at the end of the session, i lost $89 and now have a lab that still doesn't get anything but "sit" to the site of treats. So i think it's a good idea that you go and observe a class before signing up! I read up a lot of books on training, and now i'm working on training my chowlet as well. So far, my favorite book is "The Dog Training System That Never Fails" by Adam G. Katz, i skipped a few steps, like using certain collars and leashes but for the most part, it worked. Along with all his other books. I must have read 20+ books so far. Good luck!!

[Pirate & Pandora]

Thanks for the info. I will definitely look up the books recommended. I want the best for my pup.

I will make sure to observe a class before I enroll Pandora. I expect to have to spend a lot of time with her reinforcing the training but knowing that the trainers give a good starting point is helpful. The trainers I took my previous pups to worked miracles but they used choke collars which I've read is not ideal for a chowling. I would like a reward based program.

As for socializing Pandora we took her to petsmart today and she seemed very timid around others dogs but wanted to chase humans until they pet her, I will take her more often to visit so Pandora learns how to socialize with other dogs.

This information has been beyond helpful. Than you guys so much for telling me what has worked best for your chow pups! Hopefully very soon my little Pandora will be the ideal puppy! The information from this site and these responses has made my chowling and I very happy. I cannot express my gratitude enough!!!

Eternal gratitude and best wishes,
Pirate & Pandora

[Rory's Dad]

As for the petsmart, petco, or any other store type training...they are the basics. They will train you more than the dog. Naturally, different trainers at different location will make a difference, but really, what they are doing is showing you how to interact with your dog. My biggest problem with these programs has come with the other dogs in the groups. Discipline can range from full on control so there is no interaction to full on, let the dog run free and see what happens.

Show up on any of their training class days and observe. They will demonstrate basic behavior commands. Sit, down, off, leave it. Other commands such as paw/shake/hi-five, speak, roll over, etc are considered trick items. They will remind you that dogs learn best through treating or positive reward scenarios. They also learn more quickly with hand signals as compared with the verbal commands.

Now, i will not say that these programs are a waste, but i dont think they arent something you can do on your own with a bit of research and common sense. The big advantage would be getting your Chow used to the environment with other dogs and people...socialization. Not that this cant be accomplished in other ways, but my dog is very well socialized, and still has trouble walking calmly through these stores due to the vast number of scents and other dog 'accidents'. Rory (my dog) does shows and has no such issues when at a show location with approx 1000 other dogs.

[MissV]

its so overwhelming trying to train a chow. I know how you must be feeling.
I think you need to also remember that you dont own a GSD or a doberman or a collie. You own a chow. There are times when you will give an instruction, and believe me, chowlie has heard, but chowlie just refuses to follow. They are stubborn! You must keep this in mind at all times.

Make sure you dont let your pup get away with a few things like: the LEAVE IT command. There must be no exception to this. Your dog must learn to leave some things alone. Some of those things could be a hazzard to her - ensuring she understands LEAVE IT ensures that you can remove the danger from her.
I also recommend the WAIT or STOP command. I dont use STOP because I use STOP IT for when she's being naughty and STOP is just too close to STOP IT. I chose WAIT for when I want her to stop dead in her tracks. This is very NB because if shes running around and about to go too far, WAIT helps for me to catch up to her. WAIT for me is very different from STAY.
Dont get discouraged when things dont go your way. Chances are it will take a while for the 2 of you to really understand each other. My pup turned 1 this month and we're still finding our feet. She challanges me every day for alpha position.
Just keep at it, and remember that you're the boss.

GOOD LUCK!

[Ursa's daddy]

I like the use of "wait". I use it all the time when I want my two to just pause for a moment. A typical situation would be we are going some place in the van. They know we are going out, and they get excited. I have them sit, then wait at the door while I get the leashes situated. When I open the door, they then don't take off like rabbits. If I have to lock the door, I tell them to wait, and they will again pause while I lock the door. The key use is when we arrive at out destination. I tell them to wait while I get out of the drivers door, and walk around to the passenger's door. When I open the door, I again say wait, and they wait while I get the leashes situated. Then I tell them to come on and they get out of the van without being too disorderly.
Chows definitely will bond to a single individual and tend to ignore others. Currently, I am out of town, and Malachi, my male, has decided that he wants to act up for my wife. A few nights back, he have her the run around when she called him to come in. However, that same week, she scolded Ursa, my female, for misbehaving. Typically, Ursa allows that chow selective hearing to click in, and simply does not hear. This time, she actually heard my wife and was contrite! That was a first.
I will probably be contradicted by the other members, but chows are dogs and most of the training procedures commonly used for dogs will work. It is just that you will have to work at it twice as hard and twice as long. Now I had a GSD/collie mix, and he was smart, willing to follow commands and wanted to please. I used many of the training practices I used for him with Ursa. Eventually Ursa was able to get me trained to the chow method. When she was good and ready to follow the commands, she would, and not before. House training went fairly well. Walking on a leash took a while. Adjusting to new people and situations took much longer. What I have learned is that she looks to me for guidance in most situations out in public. This is something which seems to be a chow thing. Malachi is much more confident and independent, and he too seems to check with me on how he should act.

[Auddymay]

Actually, I agree that a Chow can learn any behavior other dogs learn. The key is to not let them get bored nor asking them to do something that has no logic for them. I use the WAIT command when letting the pups outside. It allows for an orderly, one-at-a-time exit. The only time it is a problem is like this morning. Big D needed to pee badly. I can always tell when he needs to be released ASAP because he literally keeps his head on the back of my thigh as I am walking to the door, as though to push me along. You can appreciate the urgency if you knew Dillon. The only time I can touch him is when I brush him and when I am giving treats. (that is his behavior for getting the treat).