Violently Aggressive Chows.

[Bher's Momma]

I really hate to use those two words to describe my two chows, but that is the only thing that comes to mind. Bher and Nubian are both 8 month old puppies from the same litter that I've had for the last 6 months; when I first got them they both where very shy and clingy to both my mother and I, as well as each other. Recently they have become very very violent toward one another and I don't understand why, I have been told so many different things from their just vying for dominance, to they have a lot of excessive energy; even that its just their "nasty" tempers. I'm really starting to fear that they're going to really really hurt one another more than they already have, After separating them today, I found a gash above Nubian's eye and Bher's paw was bleeding.
I'm at the point where I don't know what to believe; since taking them each for a half mile walk each day doesn't see to curb it. Does anyone have any clue of why they're doing this?

[kitten1426]

Are they both males?...are they fixed?....Yes they are trying to see who the dominant one is...We have 4 dogs 3 males and one female...Our male chow is fixed and our Male collies isnt..those two always have a pissing match...Our female chow she is Alpha..then we have Our Male Airedale he is i would say second...the other 2 are trying to find there place in the Pack...I would make sure you ARE the pack leader...and my best advice is is there a certain thing that sets them off...Ours its food/treats...maybe see what is that sets them off and elimate it from them or do it separate...hope this helps...

[Cam Atis]

While I don't know how to apprOach or solve such problem if I ever encountered it with my dogs BUT I have seen it resolved and be done by our dogs when I was young as my father used to keep a 3-4 dogs everytime. 3 females 1 male. Or 2 females 1-2 males. They are all let out during the night and the male will be caged during the day. The females are all loose in the yard. These are medium sized dogs about 18inches to 21 inches in height and medium in built.
They do the heirarchy thing by fighting over everything. Fights happen quickly so by the time they are separated they already have a gash or two. These fights only last for a couple of weeks after its outburst as the helper who feeds them will feed the winner first. So in short, they were left to their own devices and they sort it. I am still amazed at their team coordination. They once cornered a poisonous cobra one night. the dogs are barking like crazy and my dad and brothers went to investigate even if it is very late already. The dogs prevented the snake from escaping and none of them was hurt. A far cry from purebred pitbulls who are usually killed by a cobra here in my place, maybe because they lacked the knowledge of dealing with a snake.
Just telling how I saw it and I dont recommend that you do it.

While I have not owned more than 1 purebred chow, so I have no clue how they "sort" it out, I had dalmatians and I usually keep 2 females or 1 female 1 male but not for breeding purposes. I have never seen my dals fight viciously. Female to female but only for a few weeks And a few paw boxing and teeth baring and soon they settle. I feed them separately to lessen the chances of arguments. I also let Cookie out while the other one is crated. Later when they are good buddies during play time and if they can be trusted not to fight, I let them out for good or free range. If a fight ensues again I keep the other crated but never Cookie.

[Bher's Momma]

Are they both males?...are they fixed?....Yes they are trying to see who the dominant one is...We have 4 dogs 3 males and one female...Our male chow is fixed and our Male collies isnt..those two always have a pissing match...Our female chow she is Alpha..then we have Our Male Airedale he is i would say second...the other 2 are trying to find there place in the Pack...I would make sure you ARE the pack leader...and my best advice is is there a certain thing that sets them off...Ours its food/treats...maybe see what is that sets them off and elimate it from them or do it separate...hope this helps...

No, one male one female; and their scheduled to be fix next week; and yea we try to determine what's setting them off, its normally Nubian ( girl) who gets pissed off at random. Sometimes they're on their way out into the yard and she'll grab Bher by the paw and drag him down the steps; and i just don't get it since they have been together since birth.

[kitten1426]

Thats beacuse a pit bull isnt afraid of anything they have the terrier in them simple to kill....They attack and then think were most dogs think before they go after something...All i can suggest is dont feed them together and if you do under supervision...and treats the same thing unless there fighting over something else..then you have to elimate that problem...After i posted my 1st post My fiance called me saying our female chow and male chow fought over a treat they never fight...i think he is trying to de throne her..it seems like all the boys are lately...But we make sure she is going to stay the Alpha dog...thats our job now...

[Rio]

Hi Bhers, so sorry to hear your babies are fighting, I think someone above asked if they were fixed, I cannot speak for Chows nor dogs for that matter, but if they are anything like cats then I really do not envy your situation. Our 2 boys and girls are both fixed but OMG can they fight for dominance, furr everywhere, hissing, growling, all out war!
Do you have access to a pet therapist?
I saw that you said you do a half mile walk, is that once or twice a day? Rio at 4 months has a mid-day and late evening 2 to 2.5 mile walk everyday ( so approximately 4-5 miles per day) and also has a zoomie session in the garden.
On another note as regards fighting in Chows, I have read theat they are one of the very few breeds that would fight to the death, if they or their family were threatened. Obviously not every Chow would, but their hereditary is a very strong one (used to bring down horses and large live-stock)
Sorry I'm rambling!!!!
I wish you the best of luck and truly hope you and your babies can work through this.

[kitten1426]

Yeah being fixed might help if there not...wierd thing is tho Our Male chow and female are fixed and our Male collie and Male Airedale arent...and the Male chow and Male collie fight only over food...Oh and our chow he seems to calm down quick in a fight...Were our collie keeps going even after we separate them he doesnt seem to forget..lol...I never knew a collie was that tough...And the other things is Our male chow doesnt seem to ever ever fight with our Airedale...he can take food from the chow and he just lets him do it....

[Bher's Momma]

Hi Bhers, so sorry to hear your babies are fighting, I think someone above asked if they were fixed, I cannot speak for Chows nor dogs for that matter, but if they are anything like cats then I really do not envy your situation. Our 2 boys and girls are both fixed but OMG can they fight for dominance, furr everywhere, hissing, growling, all out war!
Do you have access to a pet therapist?
I saw that you said you do a half mile walk, is that once or twice a day? Rio at 4 months has a mid-day and late evening 2 to 2.5 mile walk everyday ( so approximately 4-5 miles per day) and also has a zoomie session in the garden.
On another note as regards fighting in Chows, I have read theat they are one of the very few breeds that would fight to the death, if they or their family were threatened. Obviously not every Chow would, but their hereditary is a very strong one (used to bring down horses and large live-stock)
Sorry I'm rambling!!!!
I wish you the best of luck and truly hope you and your babies can work through this.

When we walk them they have two short walks around the block during the day and they take their long walk before its time for everyone to go to bed at night. They do spend time out in the back yard but they don't like to stay out there, its more of they run out there to do their business then they come back in.

[Auddymay]

Time for training. Make them stop at the door. Only allow one to exit at a time. Treats are not given without doing something to earn them first. Look up NILF on-line (nothing in life is free) and practice it. If your Chows do not know basic commands, put at least one of them in a weekly positive training class, then teach the othe one when you return home as well. It sounds like you have total anarchy, and it is time to assert yourself as supreme ruler.

[Fozzbear]

I agree with Auddy May - it sounds like pack leader issues and that leader should be you. I also agree with the above that a half mile walk really isnt very much and it is likely that your fur babies have pent up energy which is likely to lead to aggression. NILF, a decent walk every day and getting them spayed/neutered sounds like a pretty comprehensive plan - good luck!

[kitten1426]

Maybe...lol...Our Male chow is fixed and has more then plenty of exercise with our collie,Airedale,and female chow we have a big yard that they run mad...play all day and he still will fight sometimes...even after palying hard...I just think its the dog sometimes..The fight in the dog...if you know what i mean...And our Chow is Big boy...and only 12 months old..He really never picks a fight with our Airedale tho...they have been litter mates since they were 7 weeks old there a day apart...Also Bear aka airedale plays really really hard with him...They just seems to have an understanding...Oh and we are the Pack leaders here and our dogs know it!!!!!

[Sarahloo]

since taking them each for a half mile walk each day doesn't see to curb it. Does anyone have any clue of why they're doing this?

That is way too short to tire out a young Chow! An hour a day each should be the minimum, if you want them to get more relaxed. 2 hours would be better.

[Bher's Momma]

Thanks everyone for the advice; we started implementing most of it today, took them both on a 1 mile walk so today was the first time they walked two miles. So right now they're laying in their own spaces just relaxing now. my mom and I have started to read the Nilf training tips, so all we have to do now is get them fixed next week; but i think this new routine will work.

Thanks again everyone!

[Rio]

So pleased that you have tuckered them out, as a new owner we got very frustrated by the amount of energy Rio had, we had read around about Chows and everywhere said '10 minutes exercise at a time is sufficient' don't make me laugh!!
A good side effect of the walks is (I have found) you can shed any extra annoying weight you had (or didn't know you had)

[Sarahloo]

'10 minutes exercise at a time is sufficient' don't make me laugh!!

Indeed! That is ridiculous!

[kitten1426]

Oh it is I heard from plenty of people that is all they need when young because of there Joints and bones...I have the MOST high energy dog an Airedale terrier HE will run circles around our chows I think any chow...And he never got walked more then 10-15 mintues a day..They never had a problem when young fighting its as they got older they have a little...thats because 2 are NOT fixed...I think you guys are exercising them a little more then you need at there Age...And our male chow at that age would never ever ever walk 2 miles...no way...he would just sit at look at you...after about 10 min walk...I rememeber carrying him a few times...so i dont know were your saying they need that type of exerise...Also we have a collie he never sits still and we also never walked him that much either in the beging thats way to much...But thats just my opinion...

[Sarahloo]

The dogs are 8 months old. They can easily walk two miles, if they enjoy it.

Remember, there are athletic Chows and not so athletic Chows. Athletes like my Loo can walk for hours, and they need it too!

Plus: your dogs play with each other, a lot, and very actively. That replaces the long walks, to a certain extend.

[kitten1426]

The dogs are 8 months old. They can easily walk two miles, if they enjoy it.

Remember, there are athletic Chows and not so athletic Chows. Athletes like my Loo can walk for hours, and they need it too!

Plus: your dogs play with each other, a lot, and very actively. That replaces the long walks, to a certain extend.

Yes that is true they do have each other to romp around with ...Our in-betweener smoothie/rough coat chow Mia she is more active then Our male chow...he is a Big boy so i think he burns up energy quick....but he does play hard when he does...Also our Chow is 12 months thge Airedale is 12 months and Collie is 15 months so there young yet...I really dont think tho even at 12 months the male chow can walk 2 miles a day...LOL....

[TyChowgirl]

I used to walk Ty almost four miles in one session when he was a puppy, about 4 months. Plus additional walks around the block throughout the day. He was just fine.

[Rory's Dad]

Energy and exertion aside, and it definitely is important, the pack order needs to be established here. I think the dogs are trying to sort it out on their own and that is not a good way to let it happen. Short term, one of them will get hurt. Long term, neither will respect you as the boss.

Carefully observe the dogs when they are not full on fighting. If they still puppy play, look for submissive gestures from one of them...which one lies down, and which one initiates the play. Will one roll to his back and not the other? When they rough house (not fight), which one is on the top?

Are they even up when they are actually fighting or is one stepping back to escape? When walking, does one walk ahead?

All things to look for (not the only ones however). Keep an eye on them and determine who you think is the leader of those two. As previous post noted, then set the order. Dominant dog gets to do things 1st. 1st in the car for a ride, 1st food bowl down, 1st one greeted when you come home.

I know it sounds like you are picking a favorite child, and treating them different, but this is how dogs (and particularly Chows), view their world. It sets their place. They will no longer challenge each other. And as long as you maintain control and direction, they wont challenge you either.

[Victory]

I wouldn't neuter/spay them just yet. First a spayed female can become even more aggressive/assertive and you don't want that. Second the dynamics between a male and female are different than between two of the same gender. The male should be beta in some ways to the female but they have to have their full hormonal surges to reach that enlightenment. In other words the female will challenge the male for food and he should back off, she'll jump on him just to relieve her "nerves" and he should allow it, unless she causes him pain.

My girl Firesong is a very energtic female, spayed at a year old, there hasn't been a male she's encountered that she hasn't gotten away with murder with, even the 125lb rottie who was our neighbor put up with her antics. She used to try and drag my other male chow, Darkwind, across the floor by his mane, she weighed 35lbs at that point, (she's a petite thing at 40lbs now) he weighed 72lbs, it was too funny to watch, he'd allow it until she grabbed skin then he'd chase her, (which is what she wanted anyway). When she is upset she "attacks" my current boy, he just turns his head to the side so she can't get his face and puts up with it, until I say something to her and she stops. Like I said she's very energtic, a half-mile walk doesn't come close to tiring her out and she's 10.5 now. She can walk up to 8 hours straigt and never sit once and that will tire her out, but it's the only thing that really does. I'd add a good training session to your routine, walk them that mile, (or more) and then spend half an hour at least with both just on training; walking at a heal, sit, sit stay, lay, down stay, I'd also find some things they can jump up on, some obsticales etc for them to master. Jump up on command to a bar, walk, sit, shake, walk, wait, down. Keep those minds working. Also vary the route of your walk every day or every few days. Chows are extremely intelligent and they need a lot of mental stimulation to keep them from going buggie on you.

Remember in the canine world the female is the true dominant. We humans often forget that.

[tabate45]

My two fight constantly. It's their way of playing. They are so funny to watch. Shy will just walk up to Coal and grab a leg and start shaking, game on! They do this several times a day. Now they play "cat and mouse". If they are outside play fighting, Coal comes in and hides around the corner and waits for Shy to come in and attacks. Then after several minutes of rolling around, they break into zoomies for 5 minutes then it's a drink and rest time. They just finished the nite-nite ritual and it's bedtime.

Tracey and the furkids!!

[Dragonfly]

I'm answering late and I bet your problem is better by now. I have two siblings, boy and girl who used to fight often. They seemed to outgrow the problem and only fight rarely now, at 2-1/2 years. One thing I did was make sure I gave them equal attn as they are very attuned to this. I encourage them to be close and don't tolerate their fights. Have your two improved by now?

[kingalls]

I tend to agree with Rory's dad. Your two need to see you as being #1, now you need to determine who will be second in command by feeding him/her first, etc. Setting the hieracrhy for them will go a long way to resolving these issues.
Just note...while my Nahkohe thinks he is in command, it is my Shiloh girl that manipulates his sorry butt into doing what she wants him to do...passive-agressive?

[sue]

I have twin boys Zeus & Achilles there 7 years old.Walking 1 hour in the morning one hour in the evening at 8 month's old the best advice i could give you is sign up to dog training classes take each boy alternate weeks.Unless theres someone else that can go with you then you can take both together look for a club to join rather than a course of 10 weeks etc somewhere you can go to train for a good 6 month's.You will need to be a dominant leader what you says goes.Walk them separately having one on one time with each of them for a quick 15 minutes round the block 3 or 4 times a week thats your time to assert yourself if they have been playing you up. They will challenge each other at this age to see who is the more dominant especially if there are any females in season living near you.The play can get very rough mine were castrated at 1 year old this will calm them down.Most of all learn anticipation look & watch them you will see the difference between rough play & a real fight always praise the dominant brother first & feed him first,Let him go through any doorway first make the weaker brother wait.Give it time they are still very young they will need another year at least to mature.I hope all goes well for you