My mum's poodle almost died.

[j3ffry]

My Chow Riko just gave birth 5 days ago. 5 healthy chows!

Just this morning when i'm having a shower. My mum visited me with her poodle. Riko was just wandering around my dining when he aggresively attacked the poodle.

I think It's just her defensive reaction towards another dog thinking of her new born.

Sad thing is the poddle almost died. The vet had 3 stiches on her neck and on the head. He can't move or eat right now.

I really felt sad. My mum doesnt know that Riko just gave birth so I can't blame her for all of this.

I was wondering if in case I'm not home and my mum would be the one to walk her, would she attack my mum also? Mum and dad and little sister are so afraid they wouldn't go near her. Problem is I'm always out of town because of work. Today I took LOA just beacuse of the incident.

Any advise guys?

[Sarahloo]

Yes: tell your mom your dog had puppies and she was being protective of them. Or do you want her to get the shock of her life when she picks Riko up for a walk? Plus the puppies need someonne who keeps an eye on them while you are gone!

[j3ffry]

Of course not! Really having a hard time deciding. When would this end? I mean Riko's defensive behavior?

[Tippsy'smom]

You should have told your mom that your chow had puppies and she shouldn't have brought her poodle over. Your chow is being protective of her puppies. She at the pups should be gated into a separate room, away from other animals, because she obviously feels they are a threat to her babies. Her behavior should end once the pups have found new homes, but you need to teach her that you will protect she and her puppies and she doesn't need to take such drastic action.

[Fozzbear]

I'm shocked that you let another animal visit so soon after your chow gave birth - and didnt warn your mother! No animals or strangers should be allowed over for the next few weeks; Mum and babies should be in a safe space away from people but with frequent gentle visits from those family members she knows and trusts. I doubt that she would attack your Mom but she should be careful not to man-handle the puppies or present as threatening.

Poor poodle!

[Victory]

The poodle is lucky he is alive. Most new mother dogs are very protective and will attack any other dog around their puppies. This is especially when the puppies are this young and so defenseless. It takes up to six weeks for momma to start to relax, sometimes not even until the puppies are 8 weeks old. The more comfortable she feels during the first weeks the sooner this will happen., She needs to be seperated from everything, just with her puppies in a separate space that is secure. With only quiet gentle visits. The puppies should start to be handled but very gently so that when they start crawling around with mom's careful eye on them, they are getting used to people. But again this should be done gently, no roughness at all, no negative experiences at all. They are just like human babies but more fragile even, and their brains are growing faster, every experience will not be forgotten but become a part of their personality.

[Cam Atis]

She will be very protective until the puppies are weaned from her. Timetable at its shortest is 3 weeks from birth. Longest will be 6weeks from birth. Ideal is introduce semi solid to pups at 3weeks, then at 4 weeks you should separate the dam from pups. But the pups cage is touching the cage of the dam and you should let her nurse the puppies 4xaday. Gradually reduce it to 3x until no nursing anymore except once a day or every couple of days just to comfort the puppies.
Im so sorry that you had a serious lapse of judgment. But bear in mind that a nursing dog is fiercely protective of her young. Be glad that it was not your mum that Riko attacked.

Now if you are entertaining the thought of letting your mom or sister do what I described above in caring for Riko - I would advise you AGAINST it as there is a risk of attack. Chows have different temperament so you must be cautious.

[j3ffry]

Yes the poodle is indeed very lucky to survive. I also feel for him.

My dilemma is that I'll be out of town. And of course mum would be the one feeding Riko. She's afraid of Riko now. wouldn'nt want to come near her. Also my little sister.

Guys need your advise on this. How would we feed Riko? No one's left on the house but my mum and little sister.

Is there any assurance that Riko wouldn't get berserk while mum going to try to feed her or make her do her thing outside?

Im very worried about my mum and little sister right now.

Help please.

[Sarahloo]

then at 4 weeks you should separate the dam from pups. But the pups cage is touching the cage of the dam and you should let her nurse the puppies 4xaday. Gradually reduce it to 3x until no nursing anymore except once a day or every couple of days just to comfort the puppies.

No, you shouldn't. Mom and babies belong together.

[Cam Atis]

If you have a spare room, you can transfer Riko and puppies there. Feeding can be done from afar. But cleaning Riko's poop will be dangerous. If Riko and pups are in a room with a secured door, the chances of biting is eliminated.
So no poop and wee wee cleaning for how many weeks? (ughh! - if you promise you can clean the room up hen you come back, that's the most I can recommend.
Or a room with an access outside so Riko can poop outside. But you have to have fencing on these areas so as not to endanger your little sister. Her protectiveness will wane by 4-5 weeks from birth.

Why dont you let your mom and sister care for Riko right now that you are still there? Bring them with you when you visit the pups and dam then when you feed later woth you still present and with your mom, let your mom do it.
Although HONESTLY, I dont have much confidence that Riko will not growl or bite.

I can't picture in my mind your household. Is your mom a mainstay? Why did you said you did not inform her and she paid you a visit? If they are members of your household, introducing them to Riko is 40% lesser risk. But if they are not household members thats 95% risk if you let them care for Riko.

I guess you just have to postpone your out of town. Not for Riko's sake but for your mom dad and little sister's sake.

Sorry but I think you were a bit irresponsible that you did not plan ahead with your schedules.

[Cam Atis]

I know it is heartbreaking to come to the point wjere you have to separate the pups from mom but if you will not be the one to do it, you'll see the dam do it in a not so nice way. That is, growling and scruff biting by the mom. If the dam is an irritable one, that will happen. Signs are : dam will stand up while her pups are still nursing then walks away and letting her pups fell away from her teats. At feeding time, she will not share her food with her pups.
Thats the way it is. Thats why I am so lucky that my Cookie was gentle with her pups, most she did when it was weaning time is walk away and spend longer hours away from her puppies. So when i saw these signals, I open the small gate towards the puppies kennel and place their food there. Will close the kennel gate connecting the dam and pups once Cookie would not enter her birthing area. So i know whta she wants. Once i close it she can get a good nap or sleep. While her pups are safe and sound and within her sight but separated physically. Cookie was so gentle that she would remove herself from her bowl because her pups are growling at her for feeding! She is such very domesticated dal that she forgot how to be mom to her pups. Thats why I separate them whem time comes. I dont know for others if they let their puppies nurse until the dam's teats skin are broken and bleeding due to puppies teeth.

[MissV]

Hey!
I watched this documentary which aimed to show the effects of an animal that is taken from its mother too young. They experimented with baby piggies (pigletts). Basically, they took one piggy away from its mother too soon (i think at 4 weeks) and another piggy that was fully weaned and taken from the mother at 12 weeks.
Piggy one is put into a pool of water with a little platform in. He swims around frantically and cannot seem to find the platform. Even when the vets push him towards the platform, he still doesnt register that he can climb on and be safe. All piggy one can do is panic. Eventually, the vets put him on the platform - to show him where it is.
Second piggy is put into the pool. He swims around in a panic for a few seconds (literally about 7 seconds), he finds the platform BY HIMSELF and climbs on.
Experiment is repeated.
Piggy one, even tho he knows where the platform now is, cant stop panicing in the water and swims around like a loon.
Piggy 2 is placed back into the water and CALMLY swims back to the platform and climbs on. Piggy 2 remembered and learnt.

Moral of the story: Its a proven FACT that pets taken away from thier mothers before 12 weeks can actually suffer with anxiety and will struggle to learn. I would assume in dogs, this could result in anxious fear biters.
There is no reason to seperate a mom from her pups until (shortest time) 8 weeks.

As for your point about not feeling safe leaving your dog with your mom, i cant really say I have any advice for you. Surely you knew of your situation before allowing your dog to become pregnant? Surely you knew you wouldnt be available at all times to help her and her puppies? You should have begun getting your dog used to your mom and sister a long time ago if you knew you wouldnt be able to look after them.
You're in a pickle. Tell your mom to not fear the dog and ignore the puppies \. Surely if the dog doesnt find your mother a threat then she will be fine.

[j3ffry]

mum and Riko get along fine. but what happened to the poodle gives them the "fear" to come close to Riko. I cannot blame them or force them also.

When Riko got pregnant mum and i talked about it and decided that mum would watch Riko when I'm away. But because of the incident she's now afraid to come close to her.

*update

She gave Riko her meal and gently take her out of the cage to poop. Kudos to my mum she's she ignored her fear because she was worried that Riko might get hungry esp now that she's milking her pup.

Is this okay? I just said to my mum to take extra precaution and i'm really sorry to put her in this kind of situatuion.

[j3ffry]

I can't picture in my mind your household. Is your mom a mainstay? Why did you said you did not inform her and she paid you a visit? If they are members of your household, introducing them to Riko is 40% lesser risk. But if they are not household members thats 95% risk if you let them care for Riko.

I guess you just have to postpone your out of town. Not for Riko's sake but for your mom dad and little sister's sake.

Sorry but I think you were a bit irresponsible that you did not plan ahead with your schedules.

Mum had a vacation from US for a month. I didn't told her about Riko because I wanted to surprise her.

It came out as a surprise but a different one. Sad and traumatic one.

Cam Atis, Thanks for the advises and everyone on this forum. I may not anticipated this one but i do love Riko. Please don't question my love for her. We all have our share of mistakes and miscalculations.

Any advises from you guys would be very much appreciated. Esp. coming from your experiences. Thank you!

[Victory]

Can't you sit your mom down and talk to her about how female dogs behave when they have new puppies? If she can't get past her fear, she can't and shouldn't be any where near your chow at this time. Fear and aggression smell much the same to a dog and right not your chow will react first and think about it later.

The best thing is to seperate the puppies and mom with baby gates or something, put her food in a bowl out side the gate, (maybe in the yard) then let her out to eat and potty. At this point she won't want to be away from the puppies too long anyway. When she's done and gone back to the puppies put the gate back up and remove her bowl. It's not optimum but it should work. I'd worry about water a lot..she has to have access to that especially while nursing.

And DO NOT seperate the puppies from their mom before at least 6 weeks, and then not permanently, let her move away from them when she wants, (by that age she should start weaning a bit herself) chow puppies seperated too early are known to have all kinds of issues, fear, fear biting, extreme shyness, lack of confidence, and problems bonding. These problems if not handled by an experienced chow owner can last a life time and often end with the chow being put down because it is too dangerous.

[Sirchow]

I am wondering why you have allowed your chow to breed at a time when you cant care for her and her puppies properly.....but what is done is done.

Puppies should stay in a semi darkened room with their mum on their own, till their eyes open as their eyes are not properly formed at this point. They should only have the people that the mum is used to seeing regularly visiting and then no more than one person. This is very important as shocks, fights and strangers could even cause a bitch to kill her puppies. They should not be handled by anyone their mother doesn't know during this period and the house should be kept as close to the conditions a wild dog would give birth in Eg on her own in a dug out shelter. After their eyes open they can be moved to a secure place with busier human traffic but only in so far as people are safe passing through and no one get bitten. After this point you should start to introduce solids and mum must have a place at all times to withdraw from her puppies where they cant reach her but she must be able to reach them. Gradually their world enlarges with them going in the garden to play and mum coming too. At this point it is important to begin socialising them with visitors and accustoming them to hoovers, washing machines, tv and any other experience they may come up against in later life within the home. Mum will feed them less as you increase their food. At the begining they should be fed six times a day and by the time they are ready to leave their mum at eight weeks they should be down to four or five meals a day and they should have stopped suckling. There are many good books which will tell you all you need to know about raising a healthy well bred litter. I have several but the one (if you only want to buy one) that I would suggest is Book of the Bitch by J.M. Evans & Kay White.

[j3ffry]

*update

My mum was able to hold and caress Riko now. But I told her to take extra precaution. As for the poodle whenever RIko notices him. She would growl at him so we let the poodle stay on the second floor.

I have a question, poodle and Riko get along well with each other before Riko got pregnant. Now that the incident happened would the love come back? How long? Or Riko will forever hate the poodle?

Thanks guys for guiding me.

[Ursa's daddy]

Riko was defending her puppies. There is a good possibility that in six months, she and the poodle will again get along. For now, the best plan is to keep the two separated. Having the poodle stay on the second floor is a good idea.