Chow or shar pei- advice?

[Loki]

Hi, first of all I just want to say that all of your dogs are so beautiful

I have a 1 year male shiba inu, and for the past six months I have been researching a second dog to add to
The family. I have it narrowed down to shar pei or chow. It's mostly based on personality, cleanliness, energy level
And of course it doesn't hurt that they are both lookers.

I'm looking for advice or discussion on possible differences. I know the opinions here might be biased, and that's ok.
The breed temperament profiles read very similarly. Share pei can be a little smaller, but with some possible additional health problems. My shiba is 38 lbs (on a diet currently) and high energy. I want a female dog that is a little bigger and a bit lower energy. I want to keep the no dog smell, self cleaning and easy house training traits that the chow pei and shiba all share. Also independence is an important trait of all breeds as the dogs are alone about 5-6hours a day during the week.
My shiba handles this really well. He is always asleep when I get home. ( I do come home to let him out at lunch)

I would love any comments, advise, or constructive criticism.
Thank you in advance
Loki

[Merlin]

We've been rescuing both breeds for many years now, and here is my own observeration and experience.



Firstly, ALL of the Asian breeds have similarities. They are all clean , loyal, hard headed, etc, they've all retained a touch of non-domesticity and they are all different from Euro or North American developed breeds.

While the chow and pei share many simiarities, they are absolutely not the same. A sharpei is far more animated in character and nature from what I've experienced.
Chows on the other hand are much more demure in a great many ways. While I am a devourt chowist at heart, personally I find sharpei far more delightful in many ways.

I will say, that sharpei will cost you more $$$, care and attention than a chow will, this based on their polluted gene pool, so your risk of medical expenses are intrinsically higher with this breed, and don't kid yourself some sharpei can go up to 60 or 70 lbs.

Chows on the other hand, are known for their temperament issues, so be prepared to deal with a very personified Shiba.

Both chows and sharpei come in Couch Potatoe type all the way to highly athletic type. It really depends on breeding and characteristics. I will say this however, a horsecoat sharpei that is high energy, is usually over the top and is similar in energy requirements to that of a border collie, and truly need a job.

Sharpei shed, Chows shed a woolly undercoat that is not like 'hair'.
A sharpei will leave hair all over your clothes, house and car , just like a labrador retriever would.

Personally if I had a Shiba, I'd opt as a chow for a companion. Both are Nordic and can easily share many activities, especially if they are close in age. Sharpei are from the Southern part of China, and are not as robust as a chow would when it comes to outdoors ( unless you find a bear coat sharpei). And then, if you had a sharpei, it could easily burn out your Shiba with it's energy level.

Also we have found that sharpei only really play well with other sharpei. They are extremely rough players, often puncture holes in each other, and are very high energy players. Also, as compared to chows, the sharpei truly are pack animals whereas chows are far more singular in nature. I think a Shiba and a chow are more compatible than a shiba and a sharpei to tell you the truth - a sharpei would spend much of the day, relentlessly trying to pluck all the hair off of your shiba just for the fun of it.

The best way for me to articulate this is, if you had a room full of chows, they'd be all sitting separate from each other, but near each other respecting each other's space.
Sharpei would all be laying on each other, playing to lay on top of each other, fighting to lay on top of each other, then all deciding to run all over the place. ( do you see the difference)?

Smelly skin is something you can control by feeding quality foods. Usually skin stinks when dogs are fed poor quality foods, or of course, if they are ill.

Hope this offers some insight. Both are great breeds, but they are not the same. A chow is a much more personified version of a sharpei in character and stuborness, but a sharpei is much more animated, and a sharpei is a much more personified version of the chow in energy - hands down.

[Loki]

Thank you so much for the lngthy reply. It seems maybe i have much to learn about both breeds still. I have been reading everything I can on both breeds everyday, but cookie cutter breed profiles are only so useful, which is why I joined this site to get some day to day owner experiences.

I am intrigued by what you write, especially on the wAy both breeds like to play. My shiva (Loki) is very high energy. His fVjorite playmates are rotties, Belgians, boxers etc. Large high energy dogs that can handle his hyperactivity. In contrast, he does not do very well wiTh my mothers bichon, or my girlfirends sisters large yorkie, as he tends to bowl them over. Both dogs are about 14 lbs.

Puncturing holes in Loki is certainly something scary that I'd like to avoid. On the other hand, if a chow will not tolerate Loki pestering her to play, ,i don't want that to turn to aggression. I know each dog is unique in personality which makes the process that much harder. I know that socialization is also key. Me made great effort to socialize our shiba early, and it ad paid off. Hez very very fun and playful. He has never growled at a dog in his life. And he's just wonderfuli with smLl children, although we have no plans to have kids anytime soon. Hes a lot more outgoing than some other sahibs thT we have met, who can be aggressive, he was actually downright frightened of these dogs and would run away from them. I like to think that itsm how we raised him but I know it's possibly just the individual dog.

Shar pei seem to be. Lot more common right now And ive spoken to many breeders, some have smaller bloodlines and say the dogs should fall between 35-45 lbs. But I think even bigger would not necessarily be a bad thing. I have also found a breeder who has beautiful bear a coats and she is having a litter this spring. I do prefer the type of dog that blows their undercoat as opposed to the short hair that sheds all the time. Which category would brush coats fall into?

I am heart set on a northern or far eastern type breed. Loki fits our lifestyle really well and I love him so much. My first objective above all else is to find a dong that he will love to be around, and that will love him back. We will of course socialize whichever pup we get right away, tAking her all over town meeting lots of new people, pets and kids.

Thanks so much again for the info. I will continue to research but any more input would be greAtly alppreciated.

Excuse my spelling I am writing from an iPad.
Loki

[Merlin]

bear a coats and she is having a litter this spring

Most of the bearcoats I know tend to be lethargic, and a bearcoat is a genetic accident so if you are working with a breeder who actually strives for bearcoats, 'RUN", don't walk, but run away from them. A bearcoat is a genetic accident, ( any breeder will tell you this), and not at all part of the standard, neither are 'small' sharpei, nor should they be dripping with wrinkles - that is such a common falsey. While they come in many sizes, a quality sharpei should be within the standard. Bear coats, especially poorly bred ones fever as much as, and are just as likely to have amyloidosis, as much as their brushcoat and horsecoat counterparts.

Your Shiba is only 1 year old, so yes, he's full of energy. Thats normal. We have energetic young chows here that are just as energic, but again they are young and your shiba won't be young forever. And frankly, especially with sharpei, you are much better off getting an older one, because any illnesses will most likely have surfaced by the time they are two.

I am heart set on a northern or far eastern type breed

well, that's not a sharpei then. They are southern, warm weather dogs.

and like all things, if you're going to buy from a breeder, please make sure it is a breeder of merit who is willing to give you a WRITTEN guarantee, ESPECIALLY if you are going to consider getting a sharpei.
Best of luck in whatever you decide

[Merlin]

I have a question for you.
is there any reason why you wouldn't consider another Shiba?

[Loki]

I have a question for you.
is there any reason why you wouldn't consider another Shiba?

Not a good reason. I guess mi was hoping to find a dog just a tad more "cuddley" than him while still having
An independant personality.

Now before you remind me that none of these dogs are to be considered cuddly lap dogs, i just mean
In relative terms. Independence is very important because I don't want my dogs to suffer separation anxiety, as my parents
Bichons did.

The truth is that I love Loki, and shibas are amazing dogs, but variety is the spice of life. There are so many
Incredible dog breeds I wish I could have them all, but I can only share my life with two while providing them
Everything that they need. So I would like to make the 2nd another breed.

Loki won't be my last shiba. In my old age I'll want another. A house without a shiba just wouldn't be home anymore!


And last thing to add. I would never support a backyard breeder or puppy mill. I won't even consider a breeder
Unless they offer two contracts, signed. Health gaurantee of at least 2 years, and a contract that if I ever had to give the dog up, I agree to bring the dog back, not because I would ever give up a dog, but bc I would never support anyone that would add to the homeless dog population

Thanks again for your interest and suggestions/information

[Sarahloo]

Hi Loki!
I think every breed can reasonably be expected to be able to be alone for 5/6 hours a day. Five hours is not that long, especially for a dog that's been exercised. I don't really know about those tiny toy dogs, but you have a lot more options than just the Asian breeds. The breeds you mentioned that your dog gets along with great (rotties, Belgians, boxers) are also options, and let me throw in the Newfoundland dog that is both majestic and affectionate!
I'm not sure I understand your "cuddley" correctly: do you mean a dog that comes to you to be cuddled, that actually wants to be close to you and isn't aloof and distanced? I understand just how much it sucks to feel that emotional distance and I must warn you: if you get a Chow, you might have the exact same experience! (Some) Chows are just like that! If you want to make sure you get a more affectionate 2nd dog, a Chow is probably not the best idea.

[Loki]

Hi Loki!
I think every breed can reasonably be expected to be able to be alone for 5/6 hours a day. Five hours is not that long, especially for a dog that's been exercised. I don't really know about those tiny toy dogs, but you have a lot more options than just the Asian breeds. The breeds you mentioned that your dog gets along with great (rotties, Belgians, boxers) are also options, and let me throw in the Newfoundland dog that is both majestic and affectionate!
I'm not sure I understand your "cuddley" correctly: do you mean a dog that comes to you to be cuddled, that actually wants to be close to you and isn't aloof and distanced? I understand just how much it sucks to feel that emotional distance and I must warn you: if you get a Chow, you might have the exact same experience! (Some) Chows are just like that! If you want to make sure you get a more affectionate 2nd dog, a Chow is probably not the best idea.

Well maybe I chose my words poorly. When I first got Loki, and even when I began my second dog research he was very aloof. He would often sleep downstairs alone instead of in my room with me. Now that he is a bit older, 14 months, he is becoming much warmer. He sleeps in bed with me and follows me everywhere I go, even if just to sit on the other couc in the room. I get the feeling he wants to keep an eye on me. I love this sense of loyalty, and it's what attracted me to chows.
I'm not really looking for the western type always beginning for attention. I love labs, and the like, I just dont think they would be a good fit for me.

Merlin described Asian breeds as retaining a hint of the undomestincatedness which I took as their independent attitudes. I love this about them and that's why I said I would like an asian breed. Loki in the past was very active, hyper, Hardly sitting still, which probably was mostly just the puppy in him and it is subsiding...slowly. I wanted to find a breed that would still play with Loki but is a bit more of a couch potato, willing to sit near me. Willing to be brushed etc would be nice too.


A chow may not be the right breed for me, I don't know yet. I'm still in the research phase right now.
As merlin said, both chows and share pei can range from couch potatos to super active dogs.

Thanks for the reply, I'm open to suggestions as well!

P.s. Your chow is gorgeous!

[Sarahloo]

P.s. Your chow is gorgeous!

Thanks, yes, he is, but he's also the reason for my post. He's just like your Loki, aloof, high-energy, really, really tiring with his excessive need for exercise. All I really wanted to say was that if you choose another Asian breed, you might end up with a carbon copy of Loki, and you sounded like you're looking for something a little different in your 2nd dog. Maybe your needs would already be met by an Asian girl dog. I assume they're more affectionate than the boys, but I really have no personal experience.
My last dog was a female Newfoundland. She had an independent, majestic spirit, but she was also my best friend in the world. She was affectionate, but not needy in any way. I guess for me it is absolutely essential that I can see/feel that my dog loves me, and not just know in some vague, unspecific way that might also be based on wishful thinking.
It's kind of sad how labs have become the example of a western dog. I've met many that are quite horrid, jumping up strangers and licking their faces. There are many western breeds that are so much more balanced and yes, loyal too. My Newfi was very loyal too, so you don't necessarily need an Asian dog if you're looking for a loyal dog.
Let me just admit that sometimes I feel more like my Chow's slave than anything else. It just seems like I don't get all that much in return for my colossal efforts. I got a vibe from your posts that you were also feeling a tinge of disappointment, but I guess I was wrong.

[Loki]

Hmm,

Well let me ask about your Chow then.

When i come home, my shiba will lay his ears down, and they flutter with excitement, and he runs up and gives me kisses.
if he is sleeping when i get home, he opens his eyes, flutters his ears and rolls over to have his belly scratched

Then, during the day if i am on the couch sitting and watching TV, he will sit on the other chair in the room. Almost never on
the couch with me. If i go to a different room, he will follow, but he will sit on the floor, or on a different couch or chair.

Then at night sometimes he sleeps out in the living room on the couch, but he often wonders into the bedroom in the
middle of the night and crawls into bed with me. usually at the foot of the bed, but only in the last few weeks he has started
to sleep up with me. two nights ago i woke up to something cold on my nose and found Loki sleeping with his
head resting on my pillow, his nose pressed to mine.

Because he is usually aloof, reserved, independant, these occasional acts of affection are all the more sweet, because
i know ive really earned them (haha)

I certainly can relate, feeling like Lokis slave a lot of the time. If it is 3 am and he has to go to the bathroom, he whispers at me.
A silent bark, he moves his mouth. somehow it always wakes me. If i pretend im still asleep the whisper will grow to a murmer and
then to a shrill sharp bark. At that point i always get up. I know that he can hold it until morning, but he knows that he can make me get up.


Do these things sound like your Chow? or would your chow never do some of these things. Do you get ignored when you come home from work?

Another reason i had always wanted to get a different breed of asian dog, is i have read that in most breeds, females are more affectionate, and
interested to be near their people. But in the Shibas it is reversed> Many breeders have told me that it is the male that is more
inclined to be a friend, instead of a roomate.

Does anyone out there have both a male and female Chow? care to share your experiences?
thanks!
Loki


p.s. newfoundlands are very beautiful! however, i was really looking at 60lbs being my weight limit. 100-120 is a lot of dog!

[Sarahloo]

When i come home, my shiba will lay his ears down, and they flutter with excitement, and he runs up and gives me kisses.
if he is sleeping when i get home, he opens his eyes, flutters his ears and rolls over to have his belly scratched
...
Do these things sound like your Chow? or would your chow never do some of these things. Do you get ignored when you come home from work?

I wouldn't say "ignored": he is enthusiastic for about a second and a half, but that's it. However: he doesn't like it when I'm gone, he does prefer to have me at home. It is a very passive sort of appreciation, one that I'm finding it hard to appreciate at times.

Then at night sometimes he sleeps out in the living room on the couch, but he often wonders into the bedroom in the
middle of the night and crawls into bed with me. usually at the foot of the bed, but only in the last few weeks he has started
to sleep up with me. two nights ago i woke up to something cold on my nose and found Loki sleeping with his
head resting on my pillow, his nose pressed to mine.

Sounds like he does like closeness, but on his own terms. I'm not really that comfortable with the dog getting to decide everything. I do force-cuddle, just to show him .

I certainly can relate, feeling like Lokis slave a lot of the time. If it is 3 am and he has to go to the bathroom, he whispers at me.
A silent bark, he moves his mouth. somehow it always wakes me. If i pretend im still asleep the whisper will grow to a murmer and
then to a shrill sharp bark. At that point i always get up. I know that he can hold it until morning, but he knows that he can make me get up.

I'm really careful with this sort of thing. If Loo doesn't absolutely have to go, I don't get up. If it were up to him, we'd be outside walking 24/7. It's up to me to enforce quiet-/naptime, and I also have to make sure that I don't become his full-time slave.

But in the Shibas it is reversed> Many breeders have told me that it is the male that is more
inclined to be a friend, instead of a roomate.

Interesting! I had no idea!

Have you considered the Pomeranian? You can get them in all sizes, they have the Chow's independent nature but are a lot more affectionate!

How do you feel about the idea of picking up a dog that both you and Loki like at a shelter?

[Loki]

Haha, My girlfriend would love that idea. she loooves poms, but i am just afraid that they are too small for Loki.
He is a bit of a rough player, and currently at 38 lbs i think a pom might look like a chew toy instead of a friend.
thats why i was looking to find a female that would have a 10lb or so advantage on him as an adult. The other
problem is that i have read that chows are yappers. i dont want any letters from neighbors. People comment
all the time that Loki is so well behaved because he doesnt bark his head off when they walk by. another thing
that led me to chows. Also ive heard/read that poms (and most toy dogs) are very hard to house train.
Loki was crying to go outside the first night we had him. He had some accidents as a pup but overall
very easy to housetrain. that was a big thing that keeps taking me back to asian breeds


And yes, i have thought about rescue. I actually scour petfinder on a daily basis, as well as the local shelters.
a couple of problems pop up. I want to find a younger dog for two reasons. 1. so i can socialize it and i dont
have any past issues crop up. I do work everyday, and socializing a dog on my schedule is one thing, rehabilitating
one is a bit too daunting.

The second problem, is that when i do find a pup that seems like a great fit, often i get rejected before i even apply.;
several shelters have told me "dont even bother submitting an app if you live out of state"
or "we dont adopt out to people who work during the day"

I know it can be a long process. I am not looking to get a dog this month, but this year would be nice, while loki is still
young.

[MinnieBunz]

Hi there Loki! I wish I had time to reply to this in full, and I very well might come back when I do but for now I just wanted to give you my experiance on the male/female issue.

I've had experiances with a few dozen Chows, and had owned females up until now. My experiance is that the males tend to be less stand offish and offer up more affection then the females. Don't get me wrong the boys I've seen are still chowish... They were just sillier and a little more "happy go lucky" whereas most of the females including the ones I owned were more like the queen bee if you know what I mean. I have met one or two females that were very friendly like any other kind of dog and that just shows how different each dog's personality really is! My little chowling now is the first boy I've ever had myself. He actually acts just the way you discribe you want your new dog to be! He is much more easy going even at this stage(5months) then a past female pup I had. he plays rough too!

I think I would tell you that if you want a chow and decide that is the best option for you, then consider a male. Also really try to see the differences in the puppies personalities, it can be hard if they are really young but chow puppies can exhibit grown-up personality triats earlier then any other breed!

I had a chow/shiba inu when I was younger and she was my baby. They really are a special breed, I don't doubt I will have another shiba sometime in my life : )

[Swerve]

We have a 11 yo Shar Pei X and a 2 year old chow, we had also fostered a 2 year old Shar Pei before the chow for a few months.

We found there nature wonderfull and only had issues with smell which was controlled with diet on the fostered Shar Pei, I would recommend both but in short the Chow is much nicer to cuddle as the soft coat wins over. Good luck either way.

[Loki]

We have a 11 yo Shar Pei X and a 2 year old chow, we had also fostered a 2 year old Shar Pei before the chow for a few months.

We found there nature wonderfull and only had issues with smell which was controlled with diet on the fostered Shar Pei, I would recommend both but in short the Chow is much nicer to cuddle as the soft coat wins over. Good luck either way.

Thanks for the reply, did you see any difference in personality?

[Swerve]

Shar Peis are more normal dog like and very loving etc, Chows have their attitude and are special. But having said that we will choose a Chow any day over a Shar Pei, Our Shar Pei X is very needy, where as the Chow is very indepentand and will do what he wants. But then he also likes a pat.


Personnaly I would go a Chow, but thats me

[donalmc]

Hi ,have u considered an akita I have 2 shibas and the love playing with my neighbours akita , they love the rough n tumble . And akitas can b very loving and loyal . They also have similar temperament 2 the shiba .

[Ursa's daddy]

I have two chows, a male and a female, both are rescues and have been fixed. My two are very affectionate. Tonight when I pulled up in the drive, my wife was in the back yard with the dogs. She complained that she just doesn't get all the tail wags I get. They heard the van from a distance and got all excited. They rushed up to the deck so that I could open the door from them. I have two big bear rugs that lay around the house. They are not exactly cuddly, but I am able to use my male as a pillow when I lie on the floor and watch TV. My two are not high energy. They are affectionate in their own way. They are not jumping in my lap like my wife's Yorkiepoo or my son's rat terrier. They are close to me, but not annoying close.
Why don't you see if you can meet some chows? If the chow seems like a fit, then I would suggest adoption a rescue.