Is She Really a Cream?-updated pics

[J & C]

Hi everyone! My name is Debi and I have 2 Chows. A Black named Java and a Cream(?) named Bisuit. I picked Biscuit up Saturday at age 6 weeks and took her to our Vet today. She weighed in at 7.6!! Java weighed 4.2 at 6 weeks...anyway that's another topic. I will try to post a picture but I was wondering if there are any "color" experts here that could define a Cream for us. She sure looks like a cinnamon to me; however there are 2 small signs of liver colored nose, but otherwise her nose is black. She is adorable and it really is irrelevant to me but I had a Cream held and would like to know for sure that's what I've got.

My son has a Cinnamon and Biscuit sure likes like her only a little lighter. Her ears are darker and around her eyes she is actually cinnamon candy red! No kidding! Her eyes are rimmed red-not like a dog color but like a candy color. Having said all this she is adorable. I'm just curious as to your thoughts or expertise on the color subject?

Thanks in advance. You are all so warm and funny and I already enjoy being here!

See picture at http://www.sunpasture.com/aaadog.jpg

[J & C]

I've added her picture on a link at the end of my question. What color do you think her muzzle is?

[kingalls]

Certainly looks like a cream to me! Nahkohe's muzzle did not have any color. He's probably not a pure bred but pretty darned close to being all Chow Chow.

[Zhuyos mom]

Her coloring looks identical to my boys'and their sisters. All five grew up to be creams and both their parents were cream. She is still so young. The pigment on her nose might get darker. However, as my boys aged, their noses got lighter at certain spots.

Couldn't she have stayed with her mom for a couple more weeks? She'll be missing out on nutrients and social skills only her mom could provide. She's cute!

[Grab]

Looks like a cream to me. Many times cinnamons have blueish masks as puppies. In addition, I believe they look blueish, coat wise, when born..so I doubt the breeder would have mistaken the color. What colors were the parents and grandparents?

Here's a link to some color genetics outlines
http://xin-feng.nl/424e-chowcolor.htm

It's really best for pups to stay with their littermates until at least 8 weeks. It's far more than a weaning issue...they learn valuable behaviors in those precious weeks.

[J & C]

Well, ok, You all are reassuring that she is a cream!
Her dad is a Cream and his picture on the web site shows him as mostly a white color, her mom is black. Grandparents are also Cream & Black: both sides.
The breeder only said if the pups had to be shipped they had to wait till 8 wks. of age, but picking up in person they release at 6 wks. We picked Java up too at 6 wks. Java is now 7 months old and we also have a 5 year old Sheltie helping to raise Biscuit.
However, Java weighed 4.2 pounds at her first vet visit and Biscuit weighed in at a hefty 7.9!! She really behaves as an 8 wk old: even cleans herself and does steps like a pro. The vet agreed with me that her maturity seemed older than a 6 wk. old.
This whole experience was just so different than our first with the breeder. Of course black is black...but cream seems to be a matter of shading(?) And we didn't get to meet Biscuit litter mates, we got the last "cream."
Thank you all for your input. I will post more pics soon. Thank you for this beautiful web site too! I am living here lately!

[J & C]

Here is our new little Sweetheart. This pic shows all of her!

[CoraP.]

Oh, my...she is adorable! I love the creams!

[J & C]

Thanks, CoraP, I agree!! Love her to pieces.She made it to 5 hours last night before she ask to go out! We're getting there so quick! I know there is no "butterscotch" but she sure is!! Maybe she will lighten as she grows?!

[Lobis Cunami]

She is adorable and looks all cream to me.

[J & C]

WOW!! Lobis, yours is outstanding!!! A beautiful Chow. Thank you for posting. I hope Biscuit grows up to look just like yours!!

[Lobis Cunami]

WOW!! Lobis, yours is outstanding!!! A beautiful Chow. Thank you for posting. I hope Biscuit grows up to look just like yours!!

Thank you so much for your lovely comment on Lobis Cunami !

[Xanadu]

It is very difficult to tell with just a head shot, but I would say she is "not" a cream, but is merely a light red. Red chows can range in color from a light blondish to a dark, Irish Setter red, and still be a red. Creams are generally all cream, with no lighter shadings. This one is reddish with creamy colored shadings. This is why I would say she is just a light red.

Cinnamon is actually what you can get when you breed the blue lines with the red lines. Cinnamon is a dilute color, and will have a blue nose, blue muzzle and ears, and blue dorsal stripe on the back. It is one step up from a blue. You will get cinnamon before you would get blue on the genetics scale. A true cream will be more whitish and must have a black nose (not muzzle). If the nose and pigment is not black, it cannot be shown.

I used to breed and show chows many years ago, and had a blue male, and also a cream bitch. She was almost white. And as I said, a red can vary from dark, dark red, to light blondish color. I'm 99% sure that the picture is of a light red.

[Xanadu]

Chowling, you say cream is a dilute, but that is not true. A cream "must" have a black nose, black tongue and foot pads. If it were a dilute, it would have a pinkish nose, lighter lavender tongue and lighter eyes. Cream is a "pigmented" color in chows. The blue is a dilute, as is a cinnamon. Cinnamons look just as if you took 1/2 cup of sugar and a 1/2 cup of cinnamon, put them in a jar and shook it up. It is a silvery pink color. The chow (I think the name was Lobis, or something like that?) is a cream. Note: Black nose and tongue. Not dilute.

[Auddymay]

My Lily is a 'cream'. Or she could be considered a cinnamon, at least by color. Her undercoat is the color of a creams, not the pinkish color of the cinnie. Also, she didn't have any mask as a chowling. Cinnamons are actually a fawn, or brown color. http://www.chowwelfare.com/cciw/chowcolor.htm

[Xanadu]

Lily is a cream for sure. Cinnamon can "only" be gotten from the blue lines bred into the red lines. If there is no blue behind a chow, the color cinnamon cannot be gotten.

[gumbychow]

hello j & c
Your little girl is very beautiful.
But it is too early for that color is fixed permanently.
At first it should be adult blond and red low ....
His ears to me are not enough cinnamon and demarcation of fur color red is apparently low
A photograph is not reality and it is difficult to provide an opinion.
But she is beautiful
a +

[Merlin]

Lily is a cream for sure. Cinnamon can "only" be gotten from the blue lines bred into the red lines. If there is no blue behind a chow, the color cinnamon cannot be gotten.

I had a nice cream, ( Merlin's mother), but she just wouldn't catch the judge's eye in the ring. I think her "flag" tail had something to do with the
I'll have to dig up her pic!
I love creams.

[J & C]

Thank you for more comments. Xanadu, I posted her whole little body on October 27; farther down in the thread then the initial start. I am interested in your saying creams have black noses because I also heard they have liver colored noses?? Biscuit's nose appears to be staying black. I would, Gumbychow, say exactly that she is a "dishwater blonde" now But she is just too adorable! We think she is lightening up some. We have beautiful, black Java and so wanted a Cream to go with her. But either way our hearts are stolen and she is a little lover too!
Merlin, thank you so much for commenting too! You showed a Cream?! I would love to see the picture. Thank you all again for your input. Wonder what age would you all say NOW: by this age; this IS her color? 6 months or so?

[gumbychow]

Hello J & C
Certainty for its color will come after the first loss of fur.
After the loss of his wool coat will be the new official color.
a +
she is very beautiful

[Xanadu]

You are welcome J and C. Yes, a cream "must" have black nose or it will be disqualified in the showring. Some "may" have what is called a "snow nose", which is kind of a pinkish/brick color. But that is improper and a disqualifying fault. I know a breeder who actually "tattooed" her cream chow's nose to make it black so she could show him. She got caught by the AKC and was suspended for 10 years.

Also, cinnamon is more than a color, it is a "gene". The only chows that can produce the color cinnamon, are from blue bloodlines. And it must be on both parents' sides to come out.

Gumby, I will have to disagree with you saying the true color will come out after the dog sheds. The color is whatever color it is going to be, when it is born. The "shade" or "hue" of the color may change, but it is still either a cream, or a red, or a cinnamon. It never changes. The true color is what it is, right from the time they are puppies. Usually, a cinnamon will have a lot of blue shadings, even when a puppy. A "true" cinnaomon will always have the blue ears, blue muzzle and blue dorsal stripe down the back. In the shar-pei, the color that is called cinnamon in chows, is called an "isabella" in the shar-pei. Again, it comes from the blue lines being crossed into the red lines.

When you are talking colors, it is all in the genetics, not necessarily the actual color of the coat. Like in the reds. When you think of a red dog, you think of an Irish Setter. That very dark red color. In the chow, you can get this dark red color, but you can also get a variation of the color, even to the point of being almost a blondish color. But it is still a red, as also defined by darker red shadings along with the lighter red shadings, black nose and tongue. Only dilutes will have a lighter lavendar tongue, rather than the dark black tongue. Cinnamons and blues are dilutes in te he chow.

[Merlin]

J & C, I finally found a pic.
In those days I had a Kodak instamatic camera and not a digital one, so pictures weren't so easy to come by.
She was a delightful girl. She lived until 12. and amazingly I don't even have a colour pic of her right now.
I'd have to really look through my old showbox

Yes, a cream "must" have black nose or it will be disqualified in the showring.

Xanadu, this bitch's nose did stay black throughout her lifetime, but I've seen some cases where the cream's nose was absolutely, definitely black, and then a few years later turn pink???? Chlorine???

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[J & C]

Thanks, Merlin! What did you mean about her "flag" tail not being to the judge's liking? It sounds like a beautiful tail too!

[Grab]

I believe it is not uncommon for cream chows to have black noses as youngsters, but have it turn pink/brownish as adults. Light noses are against the standard in the US so they're not commonly shown as adults here. I think flesh colored noses are permissible in the UK though.

[Merlin]

What did you mean about her "flag" tail not being to the judge's liking?

It stuck up in the air like a flag pole. Didn't lay on her back. Was very funny to see actually ( still looking for pics of that)