MY FIRST AND LAST BEAUTIFUL CHOW

[Merlin]

I'm not sure what your definition of 'incompetent' is,

To me, the word incompetent is a highly perjorative word that does not adequately describe the issue we are discussing in this case, and you made me out to be condescending, when in fact I am not.

The simple side of this is that there are some people who shouldn't own chows. Period No amount of help , training or other wise is going to help them because they simply don't have the correct mindset to be paired with this type of breed , and some, with dogs in general. These people buy chows on impulse and are totally driven towards them for all the wrong reasons. These are not "dog people" and never will be.

There are also some people who shouldn't own chows because they won't do what it take to have a fruitful relationship together with them, these people are essentially not necessarily interested in investing time training their chow and opt for something easier to relate to and deal with that they can better relate to based on their limited knowledge of dogs and dog ownership. This to me, represents the the bulk of people with chow problems. These are the type of people who won't spend money on tangibles such as trainers, they themselves can get past their own ego of not being able to deal with or train their own chow.

So it's really not about incompetence!

and I think it's important to explain this in detail and not generalize the situation so lightly.
At least Maria is taking the right measures to solve her issues. She's being responsible about the entire situation and not enough people follow in her footsteps unfortunately. Thumbs up Maria!!!

[lovechows55]

Yes, thanks for re-focusing our discussion on Maria and Chocolate, which was the point of this thread. Maria, how are things going now? How is the training going? As you can see, we are all rooting for you and think very highly of you for your effort in doing the right thing.

One more point I wanted to add. As one of our other insightful members said, if you want an obedient breed, that would not be chows. After you've established yourself and family as pack leaders, in my experience, you start learning about compromising with a chow. They have very selective hearing and there will be many times when they just plain don't "want to" do whatever it is that you're trying to get them to do. When it was important, Chelsea listened to me and did what I needed her to do. Other times, it was a lot like dealing with a rebellious teenager--chows tune you out (Oh, you again? Haven't you figured out that I don't want to do that yet?). Example: if they are comfortable lying in the middle of the room, is it really worth fighting with them to move? Cesar would say yes but most chow owners would probably just walk around the chow rug. They have their reasons (guarding, watching us, etc) and they've been doing this for thousands of years. Some things, it's easier to let them win on.

[dannyoconnor430]

Sorry to hear of your problems, I personally think anyone has the right to bring a dog into their home and be given the chance to correct the problems without fear of being chastised - it seems to me like you have done that yourself and learnt the very hard way. 1 point I have noticed is that in both pictures you have photographed your dog on your furniture - you need to stop this. Dogs getting onto furniture are trying to elevate themselves onto your level, make sure that only you and your family sit on the sofa and get on the beds. You're doing the correct thing now in getting help,these things can be learned if you take the time and have the patience to do so. One word of caution (and I think you owe it to your daughter) if there are any further signs of aggression you should really consider the situation again. The bite to the nose is serious enough, but I would imagine that if he really wanted to he could do some serious damage. At which point it will be too late. Good luck, as a double Chow owner these can be great dogs, they will accept their place in the pack but it will always have a set of terms attached, which can generally include ignorance and disobedience, but they are very good dogs for other reasons and if you can get his place in the pack sorted out you should have a happier dog and a happier family.

[Auddymay]

Good point Danny. Also, the upside to not allowing them on the furniture is your guests have clean clothes after sitting on your furniture.

[cebuana1]

Hello everyone.

First of all, I would like to thank "chowhuskylass" from the bottom of my heart for the recommendation of getting a "dog behaviorist."

I am also thankful that I found a good one here in San Antonio, Texas. When we first sat down with the dog trainer, I told him that I wasn't going to make anymore excuses for Chocolate and was completely honest with him on the issues that need to be resolved. I felt relieved when he agreed to work with my dog and was able to create a training plan.

We just finished our second session and I am very hopeful that things will get better. For the past two weeks, I learned so much about Chocolate. I realized how intelligent he is. He is also a quick learner. I realized that it's me who has to change and the rest of the people in our house. I am dedicating one hour of my time everyday to train him and follow up what the dog trainer gave me as homework.

Chocolate's Improvements in two weeks:

- he does not sit on furniture anymore
- he does not go to the front door or entrance area...only when invited when ready to leave for a walk
- he does not join us during meal time...he is on the down position about 20 feet from the dining table...he gets fed after we eat and after he waits
- he understands the following commands: sit, down, wait, come, leave it, heel, back, move on/off
- he seems more relax and not constantly growl
- he can walk without chasing people on the street or chasing anything that moves (he is still aggressive with other dogs)

I am very happy with Chocolate's progress and I will continue to do everything that I can to be a responsible owner. I can't say at this point that I am now a pack leader. However, I can see that Chocolate sees me differently. I feel that he has respect for me because he listens to me. Although from time to time he shows that he just does not want to do what I ask him to do but for the most part, he executes my command and that just brings joy to my heart.

I will continue to keep all of you posted on Chocolate's progress.

God bless.

Maricar

[kingalls]

Woo-hoo! This is great news! I am so happy to hear of the progress! Learning the ways of a Chow is a very different than regular dog obedience. Most other dog owners have the advantage of their dog being responsive to treats - with a Chow you have to present the request so that it make sense for them to comply. So glad you have taken the extra steps to work with a trainer. Your family and Chocolate will be the happiest!

[lovechows55]

Dear Maricar,

Thank you so much for your update. Congratulations to you, Chocolate and to the rest of your family for your incredible progress in such a short time. To be able to make that many changes in just a couple weeks is fantastic. It really shows what a great chow Chocolate is and what a truly caring person you are.

We look forward to your next update!!

Barbara

[Merlin]

Congratulations to you Maricar.
That's wonderful and very fantastic news!
Bravo!!!!

[chowhuskylass]

Wonderful news mariacar, Sometimes we need an outsider to come into our homes and point in the right direction,

I take my hat off to you for he love and effort you are showing chocolate and things can only get better, its a slow road and at times hard, there may even be a few tears along the way but its oh so very worth it, and soon it will become a way of life and daily routine.

Well done, you made my heart smile with your good news and dedication to your chow.

[Missystone]

I was just thinking in the back of my head.... Maybe he is being more relaxed because he can. He isnt trying to be alpha now? Maybe
it was/is too much stress on him to be in charge of everything. Controlling the family, the people who stop by, the animals that roam
outside?
Funny, but I saw myself in your posts! I was the alpha, always in charge always on edge, ready to prove myself. Then with some marriage counciling I learned to let go a bit, and I relaxed.

I hope your family can treat Chocolate with warmth and kindness. Dont let them be mean to him because of the way he was, let him be loved
for the chow he is becoming.

Good luck
missy

[Selethe]

Congrats!! I've been following your post and I'm so glad that things are working out for you and your chow. It's so good that you were willing to try to turn things around instead of giving up on him. The ones who need to change are usually the humans and very very few dogs can't be trained.

Even when you are the alpha, the chow may still not be 100% obedient...that's just the way they are. I find dangling a high-value treat in front of my chow always works

[cebuana1]

Hello everyone.

I believe that I didn't find Jason, Chocolate's dog trainer by accident. I also believe that I didn't find this site and meeting all of you here online by accident either. You were all given to me during the most difficult time in my life...and I am very grateful for that.

When chowhuskylass first posted his reply, it hit me pretty hard. It was then that I opened my eyes of the wrong things that I've done for my dog for my own personal and emotional satisfaction. I didn't realize how much damage it caused Chocolate. It was also then that I searched for a dog behaviorist and I found Jason. He works well with Chocolate and it shows that he cares and want what's best for him.

We had our third session yesterday. Jason brought a helper name Screech, his 90 lb German Shepherd. Although Chocolate didn't make things easy for Screech at first but he got over it.

I wish you could see me walking them both side by side...it was beautiful. The introduction was very intense. Chocolate snarled at Screech but after two minutes, he was on the down position so did Screech.

I never thought this can be done with Chocolate because for so many years, I've always been scared to take him out of the house. Anything he sees that moves, humans or non-humans, he goes after them.

But now, I can walk him with people around us, kids riding their bikes, guys mowing their lawns. We can follow people walking pushing a stroller. It still makes me nervous but Chocolate just leave them alone. He looks at them which makes me nervous because so many times he has done that and then he lunges and snarles at them. But I can feel right now that he just wants to leave them alone. This is by far the biggest improvement.

Jason left us some work to do with Chocolate and I will continue to follow his instructions and make sure that Chocolate is ready for the next session.

You all have been great and supportive and I appreciate you all very much.

More updates to come for all of you.

God bless everyone.

Maricar

[Auddymay]

That is wonderful news. It is hard to believe that in the dog world, Chows are regarded as stupid! Nothing could be further from the truth. I am happy you are commited to doing the work for Chocolate. He may never love other dogs, but he can learn to act civilly, and that is a good thing.

[chowhuskylass]

hi mariacar,

I am so proud of the wonderful progress you are doing, and now you get to see the dog chocolate was always meant to be and how you can shower the love onto him in the correct manner. I am always looking forward to you progress reports and i hope you can be an inspiration to anyone who may find themselves in the same situation as you were if they stumble across this site and read your story and follow your journey like we have, they will see it can be changed and it does work

[CoraP.]

I'm glad to hear this good news! I look forward to hearing about more progress with Chocolate.

[bama]

No, I have not read every answer to your post, however I did read your initial post. But, thank God you turned to this website where you can find answers.

I have worked with dogs; training and behavioral modification for most of my life, so here is my 2 cents...

After reading what happened, Chocolate snapping at your daughter after she hugged him, I am more inclined to believe that she unknowingly hurt Chocolate.
Chocolate's response sounds typical of a response to pain, not aggression. Was there growling? Did Chocolate give a warning nip to the air? Did Chocolate, lock on to your daughter's nose? Did Chocolate go for your daughter again after the initial bite? I ask these things, because the combination of these things would make a better case for aggression than a single bite to the nose. In fact, because Chocolate bit her on the nose tells me, Chocolate was trying to communicate, "no".
In the doggie world, a mama dog will correct her puppies with a nip to the neck or nose. Dogs communicate with their mouths and chows have very sharp teeth which can hurt a humans delicate skin, more readily than their own species. I don't believe Chocolate was being aggressive. I think she may have had an ache or pain that was exacerbated with your daughter's hug. The area of pain could have been something as simple as a painful hot spot hiding underneath all that fur.
Or, an aching joint. At 5 years of age, it is not uncommon for larger dogs to begin having elderly aches and pains.
Dogs are easily hurt by humans when we hug them, pick them up, or hold them in such a way to manipulate their spine.

I strongly recommend Chocolate be evaluated for any of these conditions.
I find the knee jerk response from your friends unfounded. Unless, they are experts in canine behavior, I would disregard their opinions.
I'm sorry to be so blatant, however to euthanize a dog for such an isolated incident and having no consideration for his state of health, would be absurd.

I recommend that you visit TLC chow rescue site for more nuts and bolts information on chows. Please be sure to review the training section and my article on behavior modification.

Good luck,
Bama

[Swerve]

Maricar,

Great news about your third session and you trainer sounds a great person as well. Hats off to him

I am so pleased to see the progress in Choclate and your family please keep us updated and just so pleased everything is progressing nicley

Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhh

Steve

[cebuana1]

***I AM SORRY EVERYONE IF AM LETTING YOU DOWN***

CHOCOLATE IS SCHEDULED TO BE EUTHANIZED IN TWO HOURS. PLEASE BELIEVE ME I TRIED SO HARD FOR THE LAST TWO MONTHS EVEN WHEN THERE WERE DAYS THAT I WAS RUNNING A HIGH FEVER I MADE SURE WE STAYED ON TOP OF OUR ROUTINE.

THE OTHER NIGHT AFTER WE WALKED, HE BIT ME ON THE ARM. MY HUSBAND TOOK ME TO THE EMERGENCY ROOM.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE TO DO...(TEARS)

I ASKED THE LORD TO GUIDE ME BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE I CAN'T GO ON ANYMORE.

I AM SO SORRY.

MARICAR

[leisa75]

Aww...sounded like you were making so much progress....can you contact a chow rescue in your area to help you out? He is only 5 years old...he's so young !

[Piff Poff]

That is so sad, you were doing so well

[Sydney]

Dear Cebuana:

You didn't let anyone down. I understand how very difficult a decision this was after you tried so hard to work with him. A dominent chow can be unprediable and it's hard work to turn them around plus all it takes is letting your guard down for a split second. I'm not going to judge you because none of us can put outselves in you place and be 100% sure we could have even done better. Each dog is very diffent and it's a very stressful situation. I know you loved him and tried. Rehoming isn't always the answer because it can be very stressful for the dog and it's also never 100% guarantee or even fair for for the chow. All I can say is I understand and wish you peace.

Sydney

[cebuana1]

***WE COULD NOT DO IT!***

MY HUSBAND AND I COULD NOT FIND IT IN OUR HEARTS TO LEAVE HIM THERE YESTERDAY WITH THE GUILT. THE PEOPLE AT ANIMAL CONTROL SERVICES HERE IN SAN ANTONIO TEXAS WERE SO KIND AND UNDERSTANDING THAT WE WERE NOT READY. THEY HAVE CHOCOLATE FOR NOW ON QUARANTINE. THEY WILL TAKE CARE OF HIM THEY SAID UNTIL I MAKE MY FINAL DECISION ON 6/21/10 TO EITHER PICK HIM UP OR COMPLETELY SURRENDER HIM.
PLEASE, I AM BEGGING YOU, IF YOU KNOW ANYBODY WHO IS HIGHLY KNOWLEDGEABLE IN GIVING CHOCOLATE A CHANCE, I WOULD BE FOREVER GRATEFUL. A CONCERNED CHOW OWNER HAD ASKED IF CHOCOLATE MAY BE IN PAIN AND I PROBABLY TOUCHED WHERE HE WAS HURTING AND AS A RESULT HE REACTED TO IT WITH A BITE...I AM NOT GOING TO STOP UNTIL THE FINAL DAY TO SEEK HELP AND PRAYING TO GOD THAT SOMEHOW CHOCOLATE WILL BE GIVEN A CHANCE TO LIVE.

I POSTED SOME YOUTUBE VIDEOS OF HIM SO YOU CAN SEE HOW HE IS 99 PERCENT OF THE TIME THAT HE'S WITH US.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igt2i1rameg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfPsWw29Jw8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukhNanAWBbU

Thank you so much.

Maricar

[Samson]

After reading through this thread, I just want to add my 2 cents

I've had chows as pets for over 20 years and many years ago we had what our very knowledgeable about the chow chow breed vet said was "a chow with attitude".

I knew that, and realized that like all humans, each chow chow has his or her own personality. We must relate to our dogs in a manner that "fuses" with their individual personality imo. The chow I speak of never bit anyone, but she also wasn't fussy about being hugged and coddled like a different breed might enjoy, so she was hugged when she "asked" to be hugged - we never crowded her, if that makes sense??

She was a wonderful dog and both her and we got along famously. We understood her boundaries perhaps.

A subsequent chow chow we had was a chow with the personality of a retriever - she loved to be hugged all the time, petted, all the affection we gave she lapped it up 24/7


Just thought I'd chime in

[Zhuyos mom]

In case I know of a chow family who could give him a home, would you be willing to transport him to California (or Las Vegas)?

[Red Dragon]

Just from what little I could see in the one video, Chocolate may have bad hips. He also seemed a little concerned that he was being stroked on his rear. Depending on what your daughter did when he bit her, she may have put pressure on his rear and caused him pain. What were you doing when he bit you? I would certainly have him evaluated by a competent vet and see if he has hip or patella issues. If you could post a better video of him walking I may even be able to tell you from a video.