Some advise please

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hayleedog
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Some advise please

Postby hayleedog » Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:54 am

I recently aquired a Chow from my sister inlaws brother.

He raised hannah from a pup and she is now 16 months old. She's been bounced around from home to home now 4 times since last august. He and his girlfriend broke up so he moved hannah to his dads, then he moved in with a roomate only to find out he couldn't keep her there so she went back to his dad's only his dad wasn't very nice to her. Now she is with me, I've had her since last thursday. She has the sweetest disposition and is making herself right at home.

My delemma is this.

1. she is chewing on my window frame when I'm not home which isn't a real big deal but I'd really rather she not tear my house up. I'm thinking it might be separation anxiety since she may feel displaced, and I can completely understand why she may feel this way but I'm not completely sure thats what it is. I'm trying to come up with a solution that'll work for both of us.

the 2nd issue and my main concern is that I also have a 7 month old pomeranian thats about 4lbs. Now she isn't mean to him and hasn't so much as growled but tonight as they were both on the bed with me she was following him around pressing her head in to him very hard, I don't know if she was just playing with him or if she was showing the first signs of agression. I don't want to seem like a over protective mom but Murphy is so small it wouldn't take much for her to hurt him whether she meant to or not. When I'm not home they are separated by a pet gate with Murphy in the bedroom and hannah in the livingroom. Also she is used to small dogs, when I picked her up from the dad's there were about 8 dogs under 20lbs.

I admit this is my first chow and I have been doing a lot of reading about the breed. I probably should have done that before taking her in but the situation came up suddenly, I didn't have time to think about it, though I did introduce her to murphy before I bought her home. Had I not taken her she would have ended up another statistic, at least this way if things don't work out I can find her a suitible home, but I'm really hoping this isn't the case because I really want too keep her and give her a good stable home but not at the expense of murphy.

does anyone else have chow's and small dogs that can give some advise or insight?
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Re: Some advise please

Postby hayleedog » Mon Mar 01, 2010 3:23 am

Thank you, I had contiplated crating her and I do have a crate though it is made out of wood. I thought about trying her out in the crate in small doses, like while I took a short trip to the store or went for a short walk and gradually workingt her up to leaving her in it while I'm at work. I will try that thank you. And I will get her some hooves, I have heard they are a great deterant to chewing on things they shouldn't be.
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atphiladelphia
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Re: Some advise please

Postby atphiladelphia » Mon Mar 01, 2010 5:24 am

Good morning. I agree with the last post about crates...chewing can be a young phase, however if they get used to it, it becomes a habit. Crating is a GREAT solution as well as a good solution to other bad habits (trash can issues, etc.)

Most likely if your chow seems to have a good disposition, and is very sweet and has not been agressive outwardly with your pomeranian already, he is probably playing. 16 months is very much a puppy and now he sees he has a friend!!! I have two chows and man do they play rough! They do not hurt each other, but if one were a pomeranian...it would. Again, this will need to be solved by training and making sure the chow gets a proper amount of excersize so that he does not need to work off his energy on another dog.

Chows listen to consistent firm training so if you say NO when he goes after the pomeranian...you need to say it each time and mean it...until he stops. then treat him for stopping. i would do this until he gets the point: "I am a good boy for leaving him alone and a bad boy for playing rough with him". This will take time, a chow will respect the leader of the pack , but since you are a new parent and it has had a few, you will need to stand your ground, become the leader and make the effort to bond. Once you do this you will have a best friend for life. They are truly one of the most loyal, caring buddies youll ever have (and i have had many breeds of dogs...none can compare with your new friend.

Good luck, and dont give up...sounds like you will give him a good stable home :)
    Ashley & Chow babies, Tucker & Penny!

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Re: Some advise please

Postby Victory » Mon Mar 01, 2010 9:15 am

Hmm. Well. the advice you've been given so far is good I would add a bit though. First your chow should be in many ways treated as a rescue with some baggage, so far it seems like this baggage is chewing on wood. This is not teething behavior, (she already has her adult teeth) this is more like coping behavior, being moved from home to home to home, from owner to owner at such a young age is NOT good for a chow, she's not had the chance or opportunity to really bond with someone and she's channled this into chewing. Get a new crate because she will only chew on the wooden one and she's quite cabable of chewing her way out of it. There are two problems with her chewing on wooden things, 1) it's very destructive, (your concern) and 2) and more importantly, she can get sharp splinters of wood in her throat and stomach along with paint, varnish and other toxins, it could potentially make her very sick and/or kill her.

I would continue to keep the little one and her seperated when you're not at home, but I would get a new crate, one of the open wire ones, in fact get one for each, and put them near each other, like facing each other, that way they can see each other but are apart. At their ages, 16 months and 7 months they shouldn't be left alone unsupervised, canines do not understand size, she's only playing with him right now, (to a certain extent that particular behavior is dominace behavior) but if he responds aggrsssively to her, she'll respond right back the same way and that will be a disaster. Also get them both spayed and neutered if she goes into heat he'll lose it and become impossible, as well as trying to prove he's big and tough to dogs 8 times his size.

Also for now, carefully supervise when they get treats and when they are eating, if you have to keep yourself between them, do not allow any aggresive posturing or actions between them at these times. This is when NILF, (nothing in life if free) really helps, make them both sit and wait until you put their food on the floor or offer the treat any movement before you say ok, means you start all over. Sit, Stay. put food down, okay now you can eat.

There is a member here who has a chow and a pom and a GSD too, and they all get along. She is usually on the other site now though, I'll pop over there and ask her to come here for a minute and IM you.
Victory, Darkwind, (our angel), Firesong, and Dreamdancer
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Re: Some advise please

Postby Auddymay » Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:35 pm

I agree with all that Victory said. I would include taking a beginner training class that uses positive reinforcement too. Also, the woman Victory mentioned is not at any site except Facebook, bragging on her 2 beautiful newborns. They are all consuming, as you might imagine. I will ask her to check this thread, however, since she is still a moderator here.

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chris
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Re: Some advise please

Postby chris » Mon Mar 01, 2010 5:27 pm

WAZ UP chow lovers???? :-) I have been summond... hehehehe. thanks Auddy...

I read your concearns Hayleedog, however didn't read all the responses so forgive me if I repeat what someone else has already said. As Auddy & Victory said, I do have a German Shephard, Chow and a Pom.
Chief
Steel
Roxi.

They all get along, in the begining Chief & Steel had about 2 small bouts, not bad ones.. but a few to show who is boss. Chief won. But I think thats what Steel was looking for. He doens't want to be "top dog" for some reason. I had Steel before I had Roxi, my pom. For the most part Steel ignors her (actualy, I have to say.. Roxi rules the roost. lol ) anyway.. When they do play, steel will open his mouth and put the side of it to Roxi, he never bites her and is never to rough with her. When he has had enough though, He will pull her by the tail and drag her away for a second. but he doesnt hurt her. Now when Roxi gets ticked off, she will let both dogs know it and they both look at her like she is NUTS! and walk away from her like "OK.. jeeze.. were outta here chika!" :-)
It sounds like your chow is wanting to play with your pom, but since they are fairly new to eachother... keep an eye on them.
Plus, remember your chow is still very much puppy like.
As for your other issue,
it sounds like seperation anxiety (sp?) to me. I have never had a "chewing issue" with any of my chows before. putting her in a kennel during the day may be the answer. Reasuring her that you are going to be her "FOREVER" family by coming home from work and going to her first thing and talking to her and just down right loving her, she will get it and eventualy you may be able to let her run the house while you are gone. But do that slowly. Sometimes its because they are missing something in their diet.. that will tend to make the chew. Sometimes if its more of a issue of a different nature, some people/vets have recomended medication... That I myself am against. OH, one thing... if you are going to kennel her during the day and not the pom, make sure that the pom can't "taunt" your chow. It happens and you wouldn't want to let the chow out and it go after the pom because it irritated her. (like a cat ;-) )
For the most part, it has been a short time now since they have been together and I think they will be fine. Again, re-assurance to your chow is a must. :-)
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Re: Some advise please

Postby Tippsy'smom » Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:19 pm

I agree with everything everyone else has said. I myself have had 3 different poms with my girl Tippsy and they got along great. We had one spat between Tippsy and our 3rd pom Sydney. But that was over food, and quickly solved. Good luck with everything. :)
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Re: Some advise please

Postby hayleedog » Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:05 am

WOW, thank you all so very much with your replies and great advise. I will put them all into action as soon as possible. I do have every intention of getting both hannah and murphy fixed, infact I was going to make an appointment for murphy but when hannah came into our lives unexpectantly I felt I should get her fixed 1st, but occording to her previous owner she is just ending her heat cycle so maybe I have time before her next one to have her spayed. She's never been to a vet before and she does have an appointment thursday to get a check up and start her shot series so I will ask the vet what she thinks. Also I will make sure murphy is either locked in the bedroom or crated as well and can't tease or taunt hannah.

I am happy to say that hannah does not seem to have any food aggresion issues, murphy tends to make a pest out of himself at times and will stick his head in her bowl while she's eating and she doesnt growl at him, also when I'm eating I give both of them bites of food and she never tries to get his and she is very gentle when I give her food, but I do like the idea of making them both sit and wait for their treats, I will start doing that.

I think my only delimma in all this great advise is this. I use the wood creat as my entertainment center, my tv is sitting on it. My house is very small so when purchasing large items I have to give special thought to it's functionality. As I'm looking around my cramped quaters I'm trying to find a place I could possibly put another crate but I will figure it out because keeping them both happy and healthy is the most important thing, so thank you all again, I will keep you posted on how everything goes. O:)
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Re: Some advise please

Postby sdasilva27 » Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:08 pm

Might sound stupid but will a wire crate fit inside the wood one at least until she gets bigger and her wood chewing has stopped? Might solve her chewing and your space issue. If space is tight now, will things be okay when she's full grown?

Also, I now have two chows. My first was terribly abused and after bonding with me for a few days, had terrible separation anxiety when I left for work the Monday after getting her. My fiance was home with her all day and all she did was sit at the door crying. She completely ignored him and wouldn't eat or drink anything. I took her to a basic obedience/training class and she loved it, learned a lot and we bonded even more. My fiance also did half the training so he could bond with her. For the separation anxiety issue, it'll take time but you can do a couple things to help her through it. Time is the biggest thing because chows are so loyal. She's got to realize that this is her forever home. Most chows take awhile to settle in (at least rescues).

Practice leaving. Put her in her crate or wherever she'll be from now on when you leave. Get your shoes on, keys, coat, the works. Come up with a simple phrase. I started telling her "mom's going to work, I'll be back." So mine learned that, you might want something quicker and easier that won't be confusing with her other commands. So go through the whole routine of putting her away, say your phrase and walk out. Lock the door so she hears it click or whatever. Wait 10 seconds and come back. Take everything off, put your keys away, etc. Make sure she's calm and not freaking out when you let her out of the crate. Practice this over and over and increase the amount of time you wait outside. Make it as real as possible. This will teach her that you always come back. Once you get to 15 mins, run a small errand. If things go ok, increase it more. My best advice is to reward her for calm behavior, both with Murphy and when you leave. Even if she didn't do anything. Doing nothing wrong is correct behavior that should be rewarded.

Also, be really careful when it comes to table scraps, certain food isn't good for them. Every breed (and dog for that matter) has a different dietary balance that's needed (both of my chows weigh 56lbs to keep them at this weight, my male needs 2cup of food twice a day, my female needs 3/4 cup twice a day). Make sure you don't give them too much protein or too many scraps or treats in general. Most chows that I've seen are susceptable to gaining weight since they're not sporting dogs. Make sure treats are small, an entire milk bone isn't a treat, it's a snack. My female gains weight so terribly easy so for treats, she gets little pieces of carrot or celery. I cut them up real small and she really likes that they're cold and since she's a terrible drinker, it works. Her nose is hardly ever wet, she drinks just enough so it gets a little water in her, isn't fatty, and does the trick for a treat.

I wish you the best of luck. Hopefully my advice was useful. Sorry I don't have any experience with chows and small dogs.

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Re: Some advise please

Postby hayleedog » Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:29 am

thank you sdasilva27 , I appreciate everyones input and it was very helpful, she's 16 months old, will she get bigger? my vet seems to think she is as big as she'll get. The wire crate I got is bigger then the wood one, but I did think about putting it inside the wood one. My house is large enough for the three of us (hannah, murphy and I) and believe me if it werren't it would be me and not the pooches that would be sleeping in the yard LOL.

My last dog, haylee (I had to put her down in september) was a golden/aussie mix and was 95 lbs, we fit the house just fine though my queen sized bed was mostly hers and I had one little corner of it. :P

Here's an update on hannah and murphy, they're are doing great, hannah did head-butt murphy the following night after I posted and I told her 'no' and she stopped right away a layed down, she hasn't head butted him since, so so far I have great hopes that will continue to improve.

As for the other I went shopping today and got the wire dog crate, so I'll start training her to it through out the week, I also picked up a gate so I can try locking her in the kitchen while I'm at work untill she's trained to the crate. Theres less she can get into in there as its been puppy proofed.

Also she went for her 1st vet visit today she weights 47lbs and got all of her shots up to date as well as micro chipped. so she all set except to get spayed.

I also found out she has started to bond with me, she always seems excited when I come home from work but I sometimes think its just because she wants outside. But today I left her and murphy at my sister inlaws (her son baby sat) while we went to lunch and shopping, when we got back to her house she and my sister went inside while I was unloading the car, then I went in...when hannah saw me she went a little crazy, jumping on me, licking me and the whole nine yards. My sister says when they went in she greeted them with a wagging tail but she did not act like that. Then tonight we went to my other brothers house to visit with him and his wife, well we decided to order pizza for dinner and I went to pick it up and left her there and they said she sat by the door the whole time I was gone, when I got back she greeted me the same way, she was super excited. It made me feel good \:D/
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Re: Some advise please

Postby Sirchow » Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:18 am

It is an amazing feeling to know you are the most important person in the world to Hannah. I think you will be just fine as she settles and realises that every time you leave you come back she can trust you more and feel more relaxed and settled inside. Congratulations on your wonderful addition to the family. \:D/
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Re: Some advise please

Postby jacqui » Fri Mar 05, 2010 6:17 am

It sounds like everything is going well.Everyone gave great advice,I would just like to add that walking daily is very important for exercise and bonding.
Also a good way to start a little training with Hannah.
I adopted my boy Kai from the shelter,he was 4-5 months old and he had terrible separation anxiety.I have never had a Chow with that problem but I spent alot of time working with him,trying to give him more confidence with lots of training and walking.
Kai will be 3 years old this month and has done very well with his separation anxiety issues.Try to be consistant with training and walks.
You're doing great! Good luck and keep us posted.
Kito Feb 4, 2006 - July 1,2007
Kai Mar.15 2007 - Aug. 26,2010
And when my time comes I will not go alone for my Chows will be there to say "Welcome Home".

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Re: Some advise please

Postby hayleedog » Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:53 am

Thank you, I will make a point of making sure to get a walk in everyday before work. Right now I work 2-10:30 pm so by the time I get home on the bus it's after 11 and too late to walk but starting the 21st my shift will change to 7:30 am to 4:30 pm m-f. That'll be better for us, I can walk them in the evenings and spend some quality time with them. Murphy mostly just rides in his back-pack but he walks a little if I make him. Also during the summer months my sisters and I walk the dogs to the saturday market every weekend, I think most people that go there are just there to do a meet -n- greet with their dogs and not to actually shop, I found it's a great way to socialize as there are all kinds of people and dogs there.

Well the gate I got to block hannah in the kitchen didn't work, she tore her way thru it, so it's back to the drawing board to try to come up with another idea. I thought about putting her in the bedroom instead and murphy in the kitchen as the bedroom gate is metal and better made, my fear though is that my computer desk is just inside the br door way and I'm afraid she'll get on it and try and jump over the gate. hmmm

I did put her crate together and put her in it this evening just long enough to go to the mail box. I took the other persons advise (I'm sorry I don't remember who it was) that suggeted I put my coat on, grabbed my purse and keys and said goodnight, I'll be back and left, I was only gone about 90 sec then I came back and let her out of the crate. I'll continue to do that till she gets used to it.

One thing I realized tonight is that I under-estimated the extent of her separation anxiety and I vowed to her that this will be her forever home, I wil not contribute to her suffering by giving up on her, she is here to stay.
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Re: Some advise please

Postby Sirchow » Sat Mar 06, 2010 2:08 am

There is an alternative that might work that I think I mentioned earlier which is to put Murphy in the crate and leave her loose in the kitchen (or have two crates) - then she can have company and see how unconcerned he is by the whole separation issue. Dogs learn a great deal from watching each other. This works for our two but wont stop her tearing your house up if she is loose and still anxious.

There is a book that deals with separation anxiety - The dog listener by Jan Fennell. There is a lot of really good sence in it and the tecnique you are using is one she uses of going out for short periods. Sometimes it is easier to follow a course of action when you have an "instruction manual".

I am so glad you are committed to working with this problem and I really hope that you will find a way through it. Keep us posted.
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Re: Some advise please

Postby hayleedog » Tue Mar 09, 2010 2:20 am

I did think about crating murphy but I dont trust him not to escape the crate because he did when I first got him, he escaped twice. I feel better for my peace of mind leaving murphy in the bedroom because the gate I have up is a 40" high medal pet gate that is very durable. However my Bedroom where murphy is housed is directly off the livingroom, so they can see eachother.

I did however come up with a solution to the window chewing situation, I simply removed the source. I rearranged my livingroom and moved my futon away from the window. Now she can no longer reach the window sill. It also solved the problem of her new crate because it now has a place of its own, I felt that was important as it will be a permanent fixture.

All in all things are going very well, I couldnt be happier.

Thanks again for everyones great advise, it's greatly appreciated O:)
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Re: Some advise please

Postby jacqui » Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:23 am

That is good news and I'm so happy you're really working hard to make things work!
Hannah is one lucky girl to have you for a Mom :D Thank you for the update!
Please keep us posted!
Kito Feb 4, 2006 - July 1,2007
Kai Mar.15 2007 - Aug. 26,2010
And when my time comes I will not go alone for my Chows will be there to say "Welcome Home".

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Re: Some advise please

Postby CoraP. » Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:32 pm

Hannah is such an adorable girl! It sounds like she really loves you alresdy! I'm sure with time and you consistently working with her, the separation anxiety will get better.
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hayleedog
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Re: Some advise please

Postby hayleedog » Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:06 pm

Here's an update on hannah and murphy

They are getting along great as siblings, Hannah is coming out of her shell more and more and actualy playing with him. Also my sister brings her boxer over sometimes and hannah and bandit rough house outside which I think is really good for her as he is more her size.

I have had a few set backs as far as her crating goes. I originally got her a wire crate from wallmart, one of those aspca approved ones but within 2 weeks she had the door chewed up pretty good. My brother gave me a sheet of metal to zip tie to the door to keep her from chewing the bars but after the 2nd day she ripped the sheet of metal off the door and mangled it into a ball.

I decided I'd try something different and locked her in the bedroom because I thought there was less damage she could do in there but she just ended up jumping the 40" pet gate and was in the livingroom when I got home from work.

Then last thursday murphy had an emergency and I had to take him to the emergency vet and I left hannah loose in the livingroom, when I got home 3 hours later I found she had chewed the door jam up. I decided the only option was to crate her but she managed to finally chew her way completely out of the crate I had for her. I was getting pretty frustrated so I ended up googling a tougher crate and found what is considered a level 3 crate for dogs like hannah who is determind on getting out. I ordered the new crate which ran me about $200 and it came last Saturday. So far it is working great and keeping her contained, the bars are a lot thicker and it seems pretty durable. Time will tell but so far I am optamistic the new crate will work. And if it doesnt the next step is to call the San Diego zoo and see if they have a lion cage they aren't using :shock:


Side note: Murphy is fine though the vet has no idea what happened to him but all of a sudden thursday night he started shaking, at first just little tremmors like he was cold, I covered him up but about 10min later he was almost convulsing and shaking really hard almost like cerebal palsy, The vet gave him an IV and mussle relaxers every hour, she said his eyes were dialated and he nearly went into a full blown siezer a few times. They wanted to keep him over night but I just couldn't afford the $1000 it was going to cost so I took him home. He was eating and drinking but had no balance and was stumbling and falling . I woke a few times during the night to check on him and he was still shaking then at about 10 am he just stopped and has been back to normal every since.

The vet seemed to think he got into something poisoness but there isnt anything he could have gotten in my house. One therory we came up with is that It's possible he hit his head on my wooden ottoman when he was playing with his stuffed animal which he was just before he started shaking. Another therory my sister suggested is that he shakes his head really hard when he plays and thought he may have had shaken baby syndrom. Whatever it was he is better and I am watching him very very closley from now on.
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Re: Some advise please

Postby Sirchow » Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:28 am

You have really been through it with your two. I hope what ever it was that set Murphy off was just a one off and it is over and done with. It is so scary to have these sorts of things happen and you dont know the cause. [:D]

I admire your determination to work with Hannah through her seperation anxieties. She is some chewer, poor girl. I hope the new crate does the trick. If only it was possible to get through to her that she is here to stay. One thing that will make her feel more secure is if you are very much the boss and she knows she is not in charge but you sound like you have been working hard on all the behaviour issues. So I can only wish you luck and say she is a lucky girl to have you. :D
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Re: Some advise please

Postby jacqui » Thu Apr 15, 2010 3:58 am

I'm sorry to hear about Murphy. Thats scarey not to know whats wrong.Hopefully it won't happen again.
And Hannah sounds like quite a handful! I'm so happy you're working with her thru her anxieties.Are you working on training with her? Is she getting excersize? Both will help with her separation anxietiy.
Shes still young and I hope she'll get better as she gets older but keep at it!
You're a great Mom :D
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Kai Mar.15 2007 - Aug. 26,2010
And when my time comes I will not go alone for my Chows will be there to say "Welcome Home".

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Re: Some advise please

Postby hayleedog » Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:30 am

Thank you everone for your advise and encouragement, I really appreciate the support.

Everyone I know has commented on what a nice mellow dog she is, it's hard to believe how destructive she can be when left alone however, so far the new crate is working great though she did manage to unlock it and escape 2 days in a row, I ended up putting a small padlock on it and that seems to have done the trick. I also have been reading up on separation anxiety in dogs and have been trying a few things they have suggested as well. One thing was to get her one of those rubber congs filled with a yummy treat like peanut butter in the middle then cream cheese on the ends and freeze it over night. She doesnt seem to like peanut butter so I fill it with cheese and it seems to work, or at least its empty by the time I get home.

I do have a question, she does have some hair loss in spots that isn't natural, like from shedding. She's had them before I got her and she has been treated for fleas. She has one large bald spot on her back under where her tail rests, also the under side of her tail is bald and there is one bald or thin spot on the back of each hind leg. The vet seems to think they are from fleas but the guy I got her from says they have always been there. My question is, is there any type of reccomended food that might be better for the coat then another? or any advise or suggestions on what I might try to get the hair to grow back? Right now I have her on iams lamb and rice and I'm not sure what her previous owner fed her, I don't think she had a specific diet.
Any advise or suggestions would be appreciated. O:)
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hayleedog
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Re: Some advise please

Postby hayleedog » Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:10 pm

Hi, I just thought I'd drop by and give an update on Hannah

She has been part of my family for 11 months now and is doing awesome. She is sush a playful pup and enjoys her play dates with my sisters boxer every thurdays and fridays.

She has an amazing personality and is so gentle with kids and other dogs.

All of the bald spots she had when I got her have grown in nicely with a consistant diet and regular grooming, even the one on her tail that I thought would be bald forever.
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jacqui
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Re: Some advise please

Postby jacqui » Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:35 am

Its great to hear from you and thanks for the update on Hannah.
All your hard work has paid off! :D
Kito Feb 4, 2006 - July 1,2007
Kai Mar.15 2007 - Aug. 26,2010
And when my time comes I will not go alone for my Chows will be there to say "Welcome Home".

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Re: Some advise please

Postby CoraP. » Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:23 am

I am SO happy to hear this. You kept working with Hannah to solve her issues, and now you are being rewarded for all of your hard work. Hannah is a very lucky girl!
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Remember this, and also be persuaded of its truth - the future is not in the hands of fate, but in ourselves.
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