chow baggage

[Tsunami22]

I'm sure everyone here will know what I'm talking about when I give a big to people's easy assumptions about chows. They're vicious, mean, aggressive, unloving, stupid dogs.

We're in a pretty dog-heavy community so we encounter a lot of otherdog owners, many who like to think they know much better about my dog than me. I constantly get advice to socialize Penelope even though people have met us for two minutes, she's perfectly behaved, gave a friendly sniff, sometimes a wary lick of the hand. It makes me feel like they assume I'm a bad dog owner, just because my choice in breed.

But this past week we started our newest dog class at the local humane society/SPCA (after we've graduated puppy classes) and our teacher/dog trainer was completely afraid of Penelope!! Even though there were plenty of problem breeds in our class with even MORE problem owners she made it a point to say she wouldn't work with my dog, that chows are worrisome, and to always be on the lookout for aggression. It bothers me because Penelope was perfectly behaved!! She sat or laid at our feet quietly while these two completely uncontrolled (although mostly friendly so far) huge dobermans kept coming up to her, invading our space and, and lunging for her toys (we weren't supposed to let our dogs meet yet.) There was a lab/shep mix next to us that barked and barked and barked and wouldn't stop barking the entire class! My Penelope didn't make a peep. She wagged her tail, looked curiously on at all the other dogs, and with the assistant trainers took their treats, gave them hand licks, and listened to every command!

I think the thing that bothered me most is that we were supposed to prepare a little speech about our dog before class that was supposed to be a summary of the breed, 5 things we do together in a day, and 5 things our dog enjoys. I'm a little bit of a geek so I was really excited to talk about my dog! We went around the rookm, listening to this corgi owner's life story for 15 mins (our class is only an hour!), a lady read a written speech about her two dogs that she didn't even try to train, but when she got to me, she completely cut me off!! i started off with what many think are the breed's disadvantages, working to up to the "although, with the proper socialization and training their incredibly loving, loyal, intelligent, and wonderful dogs," and penelope's favorite things. but this trainer lady, too excited about the prospect of an aggressive dog, cut me off saying, "YES. many problem breeds need special attention. Chows are BIG undertakings for their aggresion problems. I won't work with her if she's even a little shy because I don't want her to become aggressive!" And then she moved on to the next person. Not only was her interuption rude, but her breed bias was too!!

My sister and I tell ourselves all teh time that we don't understand why anyone would want a dog other than a chow because chows are SO perfect, but sometimes I get REALLY irritated and sick and tired of people jumping to the worst conclusions and judging me and my dog before they give us a chance. When a stranger approaches me and mentions that they love chows or have owned a chow or what wonderful dogs they are, I admit, i like them a WHOLE lot more, immediately!

[Theo]

I hear ya!!
Reading your post brought back memories of Titus' puppy kindergarten class.
When it was my time to introduce Titus, the instructor made it clear to everyone in the class that, even though chow are cute, they have a terrible temperament. BEWARE!
We seemed to be a target in the class...she made it a point to criticize both Titus & I. Everyone in the class noticed it as well, and would rally behind us.
I have had so many compliments on both Titus & Izzi. We took them to a fall festival last weekend. We had people waiting in lines to pet both of them!! They were both wonderful and everyone loved them! I would not be exaggerating to say that approximately 200 people stopped to pet and admire them. Needless to say, hubby stayed put while I shopped!!!
To me, this was better socialization training than the negative "dog trainer"!

[Coco Chow]

Have you paid already for those classes at the SPCA? Can you get your money back?
There is no point in attending classes where you're made to feel bad about Penelope and yourself.
That trainer is obviously in need of training herself...How did you manage to stay quiet?

[CoraP.]

I agree with Coco, I'd be out of there faster than jack $#*&!

[chowpups]

Poor Penelope, Nikki could tell you all about those trainers.. We went through 3 trainers and interviewed 2 others before we felt like Nikki was excepted too.. Its a shame that the chows get such a bad rap. I personally have not had too many issues with people in general who actually meet Nikki. Cause she would prove them wrong. Shes a lover of all .. she can't wait for a stranger to come up so she can get pet and wag that fluffy tail like a fan..she's almost too friendly if thats possible, some people just aren' t dog people and Nikki won't take that for a answer.

[chowhuskylass]

aww huni what a shame the trainer was like that, shows the ignorance really, i would consider a new class where you and your chow feel accepted then you will get the best possible experiance from it for the both of you. penelope is perfect like a lot of chows are, friendly and loving and thats all that matters

[Sirchow]

I also would have been out of there. How dare anyone label Penelope when they dont even know her. I have been really lucky with the class I have been attending as the teacher has done research to get to know the chow personality and she has been so supportive and seems to enjoy having Bramble to show off as her chow she has taimed. I am happy to let her take some of the glory because I think she will be more open to the next chow she meets and the class has helped Bramble with her shyness. I am so sorry that you should be made to feel anything other than proud of your beautiful girl. We are so much luckier over here, that most people dont really know much about chows so have no preconcieved ideas. Give dear Penelope a hug from Bramble and me.

[LEO's mum]

I totally agree with Coco. Sorry you had a tough time. I would formally complain to the SPCA, if I were you.

She was being totally unprofessional in working for SPCA. It is "Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals". SPCA should not foster and pay for people who openly spread biased opinion on any animal/breed. She should be sued for racial or rather breed discrimination! She should be banned from the premises on that basis alone. I would not want to donate any money/time to that kind of organization and many would feel the same.

[threedogjeep]

I was just going to post about Leela's success, when I came upon this post. Fortunately, there are trainers who appreciate the breed. I stumbled upon our trainer by talking to someone in the waiting room at the vet's office--my vet is very well trained by chows . The trainer I found actually grew up with chows, although she has never had one finish a beginner training class ( their humans gave up I guess). Anyway...Leela is a STAR in the class and everyone LOVES her. She is going with our trainer for CGC....then who knows? I'm not a big whoopeee person, but I am really proud that Leela will get this cert to help turn the corner on our wonderful chowbabies. I started this just to get us over the hump of grieving for Caity, and boy,,,,it has been a truly wonderful bonding experience for us both!

[rougedriner]

People who have never owned a chow will never understand their loyalty and devotion. Sad to say I was forced to sleep in my truck for two weeks last winter. My 8yo "at the time" black chow Honey Bear refused to lie down and sleep all night every night. She would sit beside me and guard me , that's the unconditional love chows give. Don`t worry about what uninformed people think, when you have a chow you have a friend for life.

[nean007]

File a complaint and don't go back to that class. Based on the behavior of the other dogs, the trainer has no control of the situation, only biases. Eventually someone could get hurt and who will be blamed? That's right. Neither you nor Penelope need that.

[Tsunami22]

Aw! Thanks for all of your support and kind words! I figured, close to everyone with a chow must have at least one slightly offputting story to share about the chow's bad rap.

We (penelope, adam, and I) recently finished a puppy class and we loved it! We're all SO excited to be in dog classes, after this we plan for Canine good citizen, and possibly agility classes to help with that puppy energy! Penelope is incredibly dog friendly, she loves all dogs and plays well, has good doggy manners.

But the main reason I'm interested in dog classes is that Penelope can be really people shy, specifically head shy. I've tried to have her meet everyone I know, but she's used to them already (and to be frank, I don't very well have THAT many friends! haha). I take her with me to the dog store and to parks, but so far she hasn't quite gotten over dodging away when people go to pet her. She's more than happy to give licks, take treats, and sniff hands, but when they make the reach for petting she'll try to move away and hide. She has yet to show signs of aggression, so that doesn't quite worry me yet. I mostly go to these classes, so she'll take strangers (dog trainer and her 3 assistants) learn to listen to them, let them pet her, and handle her slightly, as a socialization process. I don't need her to magically change her personality and act like a golden retriever loving every stranger, but the more comfortable I can get her the better, as I'm sure you all understand. I can and have for the most part taught her sit, down, pretty good recall, and we've got a good start on a dependable stay. I've taught tsunami several tricks, so that isn't the reason we go to classes, I can easily do that stuff at home.

So! It completely defeats the purpose of the class if the trainer refuses to try and make friends with Penelope! If the trainer wants to let the corgi handler talk for an hour, and then be disdainful to the chow, Penelope will feel that and I wouldn't blame her if she just didn't like her at all! I'm not the type to make a fuss or complain or even get angry.

We have another class tonight and I want to go in as positive and level headed as possible but I admit, since last week Adam and I have been dreading class a little. If the trainer doesn't prove that the class is worth it to us (and I'm sure you all know how much dog classes can be! We're stretching and budgeting because we know Penelope's socialization is WORTH it) I may have to call the training department of the SPCA, ask for my money back, and find another class or go elsewhere. It's really too bad though, because I know Penelope loves being in class, we usually enjoy it, and to hve to wait foranother class cycle to start could take a little while.

[nean007]

I think that Penelope is going to start picking up on your dread then she will dread being there. Someone suggested just sitting in a public place or going on walks where you know there will be a lot of people could accomplish the same thing. I would do that in the interim until you can get into another class. DOCUMENT EVERYTHING that is said and happens tonight so that you can get your full refund. Like we need anymore stress in our lives. Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

Hugs to all of you.
Nean

[Auddymay]

I am very out-spoken, so bear that in mind. I would go in a little early and give the instructor a little education on preconcieved notions, and keeping her prejudices to herself. You deserve the same respect and equal time as anyone else in that class. Tell her that you are a very experienced owner, and do not need someone who never owned a Chow telling you how they act., If in the course of the class, she disses you or Penelope again like she did during introductions INTERRUPT her, be clear and concise in telling her that the behavior is rude and unprofessional. You will find that it is on your shoulders to stand up for your Chow against such boorish behavior.

[sugimoto]

if her classes are through your county's SPCA, get her transferred to their bully breed class. you should not have a problem with the trainer's attitude regarding chow chows. http://www.peninsulahumanesociety.org/s ... avior.html

[Mia]

I think it is important to talk to the trainer before class. it is really important that you and your chow are treated properly. Penelope is DEFINATELY going to sense your hesitance and reluctance to participate in class and it will affect her. She won't be able to feel comfortable in the class and therefore not really be able to concentrate.
Hopefully, the trainer will understand.

[nean007]

So how did it go last night?

[rougedriner]

I don`t know if it`s in the breed or what but my girl is head shy also. I think it`s more a defencive instint than anything else. I know when Honey Bear wasw a pup you couldn``t force her on her back for a belly rub, once she knew she wasn`t in danger she can`t get enough.

[chow fancier]

Cinder is headshy too. Strangers are allowed to scratch under the chin, if she approves of them, but not pet the top of her head. The one and only time she was willingly petted on the head by a stranger was during her CGC test. We had a little talk just before the test where I explained if she didn't let the lady pet her on the head she was going to have to endure weeks of strangers trying to pet her on the head and take the test over.

[atphiladelphia]

This whole story is dissapointing. It is the same as saying "all blonds are dumb" Haven people realized broad brush satements like this make THEM look worse and ignorant!

I have a penelope too! It sounds like you are doing everything a good dog owner would do, and you should be proud of your little girl, as well behaved as she is. Its OK if she is shy, just keep on doing what your doing! My penny was a little bit shy as well, we have another chow, tucker, he is a bit older and we played with him physically so he is not freaked out by touch or rough touch for that matter. Penny was slow to get used to this, but we would pet her, rub her ears, scratch her nose, rub her cheeks...(of course she was so small, there was no real threat for us) soon she took it as a form of positive attention and now she welcomes touches, rubs, tousles and other gestures on and around her head. there is no apprehension when others touch her head either. both dogs are sweet loving and snuggly, and it sound like your penelope is a doll (she certainly looks like one). do what works for you, and I would no blame you for finding another instructor!

good luck

ashley, penny, and tucker

[Tsunami22]

Aw man! I hd an entire reply typed out and somehow it wasn't posted and lost/erased! Too bad, I would retype now but I'm in a rush to leave work!

Long story short: we've decided to stay in the class after a couple of changes, and thanks for being so great and supportive chowchow forum! hopefully later today i'll have time to type out a full reply again and fill you all in on our class!

[chewfozz]

I remember Chewie's first class back in 1996 (yep she's an old girl). She was the cutest and sweetest puppy. She got along with other dog, etc...The first comment out of the instructors mouth was that she looked mean. My jaw hit the ground. How could a three month old chow puppy look mean!

I also remember our first vet experience. The vet came in and said, "you know about the chow breed don't you? They can be very aggressive and not good family dogs." Again, my jaw hit the ground from pure shock of a vet making that statement when he bred Dobermans. Believe it or not each time I saw him he said the exact same thing. Needless to say I did not stay with that vet very long.

Don't worry about what other people think. YOu know your dog and there capabilities and limitations (if any). Penelope is a beautiful girl!

[lovechows55]

I admire you for trying to work this class out for Penelope and for all of the effort you are taking to socialize and train her. Chows can be the friendliest dogs on the planet if they have the right nurturing (mine thought everyone wanted to pet her and her doggie feelings were badly hurt when people ignored her & didn't give her lots of attention). Unfortunately, many people have this negative opinion about our breed. It's ironic that this is occurring at an SPCA, especially when you consider that the official position of the ASPCA is that banning breeds is wrong (e.g., it's the owner, not the breed, that causes aggression) & that they were even able to rehabilitate many of Michael Vick's dogs. To have trainers who are so ignorant on their staff is not a very good reflection of all of the good work that humane groups have been involved in. And, of course we all know that our chows don't deserve this reputation. I went through it for 15+ years with my super friendly, well-socialized Chelsea, starting with several police officers telling me how vicious chows are (when she was a 5 week old fluff ball) and continuing throughout her entire life. (Lesson: try not to let ignorant people get to you; there are lots of them out there).

Because chows are so sensitive and such wonderful judges of character, I would just strongly suggest that if you have any further problems with this trainer that you don't continue taking Penelope to the class. You might want to consider contacting your local AKC chow club for recommendations to find trainers who are chow friendly. None of you deserve to be treated this disrespectfully and Penelope is going to pick up on the trainer's fear of her, plus the stress the trainer is causing for you. It says a lot about her that she was so well behaved in the first class despite all of the disruptions and trainer attitude. But, if I were in your situation, I would file a complaint against the trainer and find another class if there are any more problems.

Best wishes to all of you!

[Tsunami22]

Phew! I've finally gotten half a second to post something!! I've been so crazy busy at work and then every night of the week something hs been going on! No internet time for me!

But I again, wanted to say thanks for all of your understanding and support.

The second class was much better. The trainer came over and gave Penelope some treats. And later on, when it came time for demos none of the other dogs would work with her for one reason or another! One didn't like treats and wouldn't work with anyone or anything, one didn't like the trainer, another was afraid of having treats thrown at her (the weirdest training method I've ever seen, BTW). But Penelope, as eager as ever in her training classes was ready to do a handstand or chew someones hand off if it meant treats! So Penelope was the only one that cooperated with the trainer and did what was asked. Yay penelope!

I even learned a new strategy or two for training with strangers from one of the assistants.

So after the second class, WE decided to stay on. Even if Penelope doesn't learn much, we'll hve taught someone new about how wonderful a chow can be!

Our third class is this evening and so hopefully it stays on the positive track that it's on.

[CoraP.]

I'm glad things have gone better. Little Penelope is a good girl!