New User - Plz Plz Help! I want to keep my Chow!

[CaptSS]

WIfe and I got a Chow/Border Collie as a rescue dog when she was about a year old and she is 8 now. No kids, just us 2 and Daisy. Christmas 2007 we got a Border Collie puppy that was about 1 month old. 18 months later we probably have to give up our Chow Daisy. She has never accepted the other dog (also a female) and has attacked her twice now. Other dog is submissive and does not fight back. The last 4 days we have kept them apart and when they are together we put Daisy in a soft muzzle.

Daisy is definitely an Alpha dog. She was fixed when we got her. She has NEVER shown aggression towards a human, only towards our other dog. She will face off and bark at cats, opossums, etc... but will not attack them. She only has a problem with our other dog. Other dog knows Daisy is the leader and accepts it. We've seen Daisy position herself over the other dog. Other dog just lays down or shows her belly. She knows she is #2 and has no problem with it. She is also clueless when Daisy is getting aggressive. She just wants to play. They have separate food dishes, one eats inside the other outside - it's always been that way and has worked out well. We show equal amounts of love towards both. Daisy just can't accept the other dog being here.

We hate having to give her up as we love her to death! But we know it isn't fair to either dog or to us to continue this way. To be honest, we don't have the money for training and don't know if that would work at this stage in her life.

We are open to suggestions and will try just about anything before trying to place her in another loving home. (That worries us too - I don't want some thug getting her, hanging a 20 pound chain around her neck and tying her to a tree all day. She deserves better than that.)

I hope I have provided enough information to solicit some opinions and/or ideas. It breaks our heart to say the least so this is almost a last ditch effort to see if there is hope for the situation. We love both dogs like there's no tomorrow. We just don't know if this can be resolved. Sorry this is so long but it's worth it to me.

Thank you all.

Todd

[kingalls]

Why are you choosing to rehome Daisy? She's been with you for 7 years, you brought in another female which can be a receipe for disaster, and now Daisy is the problem?
Having two females can present a lot of problems. When it comes to 2 females or 2 males, the 2 females can be the most challenging or impossible. Very few, like Millie (RIP) and Mabel got along.
I wish I could give you more advice but I have a female and a male. I chose to adopt a male because my research shows that having 2 of the same *Censored Word*, especially female, can be a really bad situation.
Another member on this site has two females that don't get along. The 2 Chows have gotten into some very bad fights. None the less, the family has chosen to keep both and make the extra effort to make sure the 2 girls don't collide.

[LEO's mum]

This is what I learned from Ian Dunbar's "Aggressive Dog" lecture, or the jist of it, anyway. If you want to learn more go to his site on siruspup.com.

If you really want to keep your chow, you can do what some of the others have on the site with two dogs. Keep them on leash, have one with you in a room, you totally ignore the dog when you are alone w/ the dog. Another person introduces the other dog into the room on a leash, you make a fuss, a happy fuss, by saying "oh, there's so-and-so, isn't it exciting" in a really happy tone and treat, treat, treat. Keep on doing this, ignoring the dog unless there is the other dog in the room. Imprint that having the other dog's presence is something good. You might have to start w/ even a muzzle on, but hopefully your chow would get the idea.

If not, you can have her on muzzle anytime there is the othe dog around. It is not a perfect solution, but it is better than getting rid of a family member.

If you should think you need to rehome a dog, choose the one that is younger, more friendly. You keep the dog which is aggressive, less friendly to others or older, at least that way the dog would be more "adoptable", less chance of having it turned in to a pound or let go on the street.

Wishing you, more so your Daisy, all the luck,
Leonora & mum

[Tsunami22]

My first reaction was similar to kingalls, of why is it daisy leaving when she is the one you've had for quite some time.

My first suggestion is, although it might sound realistic to some of you, but there's never an age in one's life where it's just too late to train. i understand that money can be a big issue when it comes to hiring a trainer but the next best thing is a LOT of internet research, try to find all of the strategies for solving this problem that are possible. for chows specifically and for all dogs generall. Try them all. If you REALLY REALLY REALLY want to keep her, with a lot of patience, persistence, and consistency you CAN do it. It's possible and it could be a lot of work.

How long has this aggression problem been going on? If you've had the other puppy for 18 mos. has Daisy been aggressive to her from the beginning?

A lot of times it's harder for an older dog and a puppy to get a long. Puppies have higher energies and are spunkier, to an older dog this can be irritating. Chows are known for leaning slightly towards the aggressive side and border collies are known for being really high energy, working mentality, and sometimes nippy (herding quality). In a mix, these two personalities seem like they can be a handful. Make sure that they are both REALLY well excercised. I mean, EXHAUSTED. The puppy will probably need much more excercise to get tired. And not just playing excercise, that can excite them more than calm them down. And also, be sure they're mentally stimulated enough. Some people put ALL of a dog's food in kongs, so every little bit of kibble needs to be worked towards. Another thing to try is agility. If you have a yard it can be relatively easy to make a super simple practice agility course out of PVC (PM me or google that). If your dogs are tired and properly stimulated they may feel less need to bother each other. The younger dog will be calm and less annoying, the older dog will also be calmer and less grouchy. This alone wouldn't solve your problem but it may help. It might also help to make sure your dogs are at these levels before training.

The best of luck. There are some dogs that are JUST other dog aggressive, I hope this isn't the case and you can all work through this together!

[Dogdad]

I have 2 chows, one has been agressive with the other many times, and with an older dog we had before he died. My advice, If you don't want to give them up ,is to separate them in different parts of the house. Depending on how your house is set up it could be a few rooms or half the house. Unfortuneately that is the way mine have to live, they both get lots of attention. They go on walks together but I usually have my son help , they are never close enough to touch unless I allow it.

Hope it helps

David

[sweetpea]

She is also clueless when Daisy is getting aggressive. She just wants to play. They have separate food dishes, one eats inside the other outside - it's always been that way and has worked out well.

Are you sure this is aggression and not Daisy playing? We had this discussion on the other board not to long ago. If a person is not use to the way a chow will play wrestle, they would likely think its a fight or aggression. Last night Gracie jumped on Princess, was trying to knock her down and growled. First glance I thought Gracie was being a butt and trying to pick a fight so I told her to knock it off. She looked up at me then Princess decided sure, she'd wrestle. The next thing I know the two are wrestling and being goofy. Sometimes the way Gracie tries to convince Princess to play looks like aggression. When its true aggression, its doubtful the other dog would ever mistake that for play. If your other dog is clueless that Daisy is getting aggressive then its a good chance that Daisy is not being aggressive at all, she is playing the way chowchows like to play.

[CaptSS]

It's not play. We just brought the other dog home from the vet.... 22 stitches and a halo for 10-14 days. When I pulled Daisy off the other dog she would not let go and a large piece of fur, skin and underlying tissue was pulled (upper chest area.) You could actually see her muscle. The previous attack she punctured the other dogs arm in 2 places.

We know when they are playing. These unannounced random attacks are absolutely not playing.