My Chow bit my daughter...

[hunners]

I really wish we would've done more researching on the breed before we "adopted" him but we didn't and I really am not sure what to do. We have had Hunter since he was born and he is currently 2 1/2 yrs. He is such a mellow dog- and super friendly, gets along with other dogs etc. However a few months ago he actually bit my 2 yr old daughter in the face requiring quite a few stitches. I was not home at the time- so my husband was upstairs while he was being fed and for whatever reason he bit her. He has since snapped at her again a few days ago while he was just licking himself and she came over to pet him- this time stitches weren't necessary but he did draw blood and she has a scar on her hand.
Hunter has become another member of our family but I can't continue to live with him due to this behavior. I just can't trust him anymore and really would just like some guidance where to go with this. Everyone tells me that finding a trainer is useless- they just want your money blah blah blah...
Hunter has not been fixed yet- so sometimes I wonder if I get this done will it affect his attitude or is there something I can do??

Thanks in advance for any help u can provide.

Jenn

[Coco Chow]

Hi Jenn and welcome!
I understand you are really upset as nobody wants to have his child bitten, let alone by the family dog.

However, simple but important rules could have helped, such as never leave a child alone with a dog (especially when the child is only 2), especially when the dog is eating his meal!!! It is a recipe for desaster, whatever the breed.

Hunter has since snapped at your daughter again too. Some chows do not like to be treated like teddy bears even though they look like one. Your chow was licking his paws, maybe something hurt the paw and it was not a good time for the child to approch him. Your daughter is only 2 and your chow might see her as the last member of the pack in a hierarchic point of you, which is probably not helping too.
I don't know how you can teach him that he is in fact the last one, not her, and other will help you more with that, but it is your job as a parent to teach your daughter to approach the chow only when Hunter is comfortable with that, approach him gently as kids can be a bit rough sometimes without meaning it, and always, always, under your supervision.
Good luck!

[Coco Chow]

I wanted to add, when you play with Hunter, never allow him to nip you, and to put human body parts (hands, feet, legs, fingers, etc...) in his mouth. He needs to understand that it is not allowed. (Of course you can put your fingers in his mouth to check his teeth, etc, it is recommended... but he can not mouth you when he wants.) You don't take humans in your mouth is a rule he needs to learn if it's not done yet...

[hunners]

Thank you soo much for responding! I really don't want to give up on him. He is such a good dog and unfortunately I can't trade my daughter in! Your dog is beautiful on your signature line!~ My family kept telling me that Chow's are not good with a family and kids however the home that we adopted Hunter from when he was a pup-- they had 4 adult Chows and 3 young boys! I don't know how they do it!

I will definately keep your advice in mind~!'


Jenn

[Auddymay]

Your Hunter is not a lost cause, but you will need to change how you interact with him, and you need to keep your 2 year old away from him in most instances. The only way you can keep him, is to put in the work. Are you willing to do that? Many say yes, few actually can.

Snipping is good for Hunter physically, but won't change his personality. Next, check out NILF. http://www.sspca.org/Dogs/TANSTAAFL.html If Hunter does not know basic commands, you will need to go through a basic training class with him, one that uses positive re-inforcement, such as they offer at Petsmart. At first NILF will seem like a PITA for you, this is where you discover you never did really have the upper hand with Hunter. Chows are great at getting what they want through forcing a compromise in behavior from you. This has to stop. It will take consistency, but once you establish the correct behavior responses, you can incorporate your two year old. She will be able to feed him and treat him for behaving, always with you or your DH right there. At this point, and even before, seeking the help of a trainer to work with you at home on specific behaviors if you can afford it would be great. My only caveat here is be careful who you choose, not all understand Chows, and not all use positive reinforcement, both things are a must.

Good luck, and let us know the progress. To keep the Chow and child safe for now, invest in baby gates.

[Judy Fox]

Hello and welcome.

Sorry this has happened. As Elodie has said, a child should never be left with a dog of whatever breed without supervision. The baby gate is a good idea. Then training - and making sure that your chow understands what you say and does what you say. He must recognise and accept that you and your husband are head of the pack - the child is a child and is higher in the pack than he is then he come next.

I am sure I don't have to say don't let your child pull him or poke him and make sure your daughter understands only to approach him from the front as he does not have peripheral vision like other breeds.

Making a few sensible rules and ensuring they are kept should solve the problem.

[Deavister]

People aren't going to want to hear this but... If you have a dog that bites your 2 year old daughter it must go. You don't take chances with your kids. Chows are a special/wonderful dog breed, but not all chows go well with all family situations. A small child cannot be watched 24/7 they WILL get into trouble climbing chairs, poking the dog, etc...That is why you baby proof a house. If your dog is going to bite when this happens it cannot be trusted. It either has to go or it cannot stay in the house. The dog cannot be kept unsupervised with your daughter. Not all dogs/breeds will bite in these situations. Your family needs another breed.

My daughters are 17 and 13. We always had Chows from the time they were born, but I never had my dogs bite anyone. If either one of my chows did bite one of my kids I would have gotten rid of it. I have a zero tolerance policy when it involves my kids. It is just a matter of priorities. If this was visiting children you could remove your chow from the situation but your child lives there all the time. I am sorry to be so blunt and I know you love your dog. Just try to be sure he goes to a good home where he will be loved.

[chow fancier]

First of all I disagree strongly with the last post. Your chow is your responsibility as much as your child is and attempting to re-home him now without correcting the behavior is very likely to end up with him dead. So please don't do that.

I am so sorry to hear that your daughter was injured. It must frighten you beyond belief, worrying that it will happen again.

That said, your child should never be around the chow (or any dog) without adult supervision. I would never allow a two year anywhere near my chows with no adult present! And Cinder has her CGC (Canine Good Citizen) and Teddy is the gentlest, most loving dog I have ever met.

NILF or Nothing in Life is Free can make all the difference in your chows behavior. It is very important that the chow understand humans are alpha, the source of all good things, but those things must be earned. When the chow wants anything: food, treat, in, out, and so forth, he has to perform a task to receive it. A simple sit will do, but if the chow knows more behaviors then you can vary it. You must be consistent and the chow will test you constantly until this is established as the way of his world.

If you can find a trainer who uses only positive reinforcement and has chow knowledge, hire them immediately. Remember that it is as much about training the humans as it is the chow so don't agree to any sort of drop off training.

My Cinder came to me as a ~4 year old rescue with very bad manners. So sure she was in charge of the household, that it was easy to fall into compromising. But after NILF and obedience classes she now respects the humans and understands her rank is below ours. So please give it a chance.

[CHowgal]

I'm sorry to hear that this has happened to you 2 yr old... If Hunter is seeing her as a subordinate you could try having her more envolved when it comes to meal time. Have her help you put it down for him to let him see that she is of higher ranking than he is.

Otherwise, I agree with everyone else's (except for Deavister's) posts.

Please don't give up on him, as you said he's a member of the family. I'm sure with a little training things will become better.

Jess

[PurpleKisses]

Hi, I just wanted to say, I have a daughter who will be two next month, (and two older daughters - 9 and 7)and I have now two chows... my chows run in and out of the house but if I have to leave the room or go do something, they go with me, or outside. I never leave my youngest alone with the dogs. If she wants to play outside, my oldest has to be out there with her if I cannot be, OR I bring the dogs in. My daughter LOVES to play with the dogs, but like most two year olds, she doesn't always know that the dogs don't find the same things funny like she does(having a bucket of water dumped on them so they can be 'cweeeen'.... or 'pay fatch puppies' with a ball to their faces) So, that is where I step in and have to teach her how to behave around the dogs and to the dogs.... she is very good with them, but at two, cannot be trusted alone with the dogs. And when the dogs have an adverse reaction (growling, or snapping) they get corrected too.... just as I have to teach my daughter to not hit, but to pet gently, I have to be the one that teaches the dogs that they need to either deal with it, or leave the situation. I give them a strong 'That is enough!' or a 'Hush that up!' whenever I hear a grumble out of my new girl(Chi-Ching has learned since he was a puppy what my rules are but Mao is still learning) and she usually will then get up and walk away, and I praise her. She hasn't been with me long but already we have cut her grumbling down by a TON... she is a talker so we had to learn the difference, and now I am teaching her WHEN to talk... that way, she only talks in fun. But she learns to just walk away(or in some cases run) when the two year old comes running out with the dog brush to make her 'pwitty'

[hunners]

Thanks so much for all of your replies-- they are all greatly appreciated! The last thing I want to do is give up on him. We are in this together and I want to make it work. All of the nurses I work with tell me that I am ignorant to have gotten a Chow blah blah blah... and since I wasn't home when this all happened to my daughter I really don't know exactly what happened but YES it def was my daughters fault. I agree completely! My husband was putting my other daughter to bed when he should've been watching her. I need to learn how to teach Hunter to behave-- that is the problem no matter what the breed is. Its just hard trying to find a trainer that isn't all BS because I know there are so many around me. Is there some type of certification that I should be looking for? As a parent I know that I need to learn the appropriate way to behave towards Hunter myself. Thanks so much everyone for the advice-- I wish I could have found this site much sooner than I did!!

[PurpleKisses]

Thanks... it is hard at times but well worth it to have a smooth running household.

I meant to add to the OP that I NEVER.... repeat NEVER allow ANY of my kids around either dog when they are eating. Not a question, it is just simply NOT allowed. I feed Chi-Ching in the garage and Mao in her crate(Food aggression issues between the two) but the kids are never allowed near them when they are eating and I never leave their food bowls down.

[Coco Chow]

Hunter was adorable at 6 weeks old !!
Do you have any recent picture of him to show us too?

[sweetpea]

I just want you to know that its not a lost cause, Gracie is proof of that. Gracie bit my 2 1/2 year old granddaughter on the face twice. Luckly they weren't bad but did break the skin (she has a small scar from the second one). I had went outside for a minute leaving my daughter to watch the kids with Gracie. I guess Gracie ran to the door upset because I hadn't taken her with me. My granddaughter charged to the door behind Gracie and Gracie got her in the face. The second time I had Gracie gated away from the kids and my daughter so I could run outside for a minute. Next thing I knew I heard Ashlyn screaming and crying and I knew. Sure enough, Ashlyn had knocked the gate down (I didn't have it snug enough) and went in with Gracie. I don't know what happened but Ashlyn had done something and Gracie got her above the eye. After that, I never ever trusted anyone to watch kids around Gracie. If I went outside, Gracie went outside. If I went to the bathroom, Gracie had to be in there with me (if the kids were over). I didn't trust anyone and I still don't. But now Ashlyn is 5, her sister is 4 and you would not believe how great Gracie is with them. The kids are only here for a couple of weeks, twice a year so Gracie sees very little of them but yet is wonderful with them. The kids have learned how to treat her, and Gracie has learned when she's tired of it she can go off to her bed for safety or outside. She lets the kids pet her, hug her, play around her. Her tail never drops. But as calm as she is with them, if I step outside, Gracie goes with me no matter how many adults are in the house. I trust NOBODY. Also, if I have to leave before my daughter and the kids leave, Princess and Gracie are placed in safety, out of reach and out of site of the kids. I don't like pinning them up like that but twice I trusted an adult to keep a child safe around Gracie and twice that child got nipped on the face. Its rare that I have to do that but its for the childs protection and for GRACIE'S protection.

[chowpups]

I just had my daughter and her family come for a weeks visit and Nikki was very good with the baby (hes 15months old) but I still kept my guard up. Nikki is not use to little gremlin like noises that the baby makes at the highest pitch possible. (and neither is Grandpop). So we kept a close watch on the dog and the baby.. Most of the time they were fine but Nikki seemed like she was glad to get away at times too.. Until we can teach the baby to respect Nikki too we are kind of keeping a close watch on both.. we did separate them a couple of times to give the dog a break.. this is a tough age for both.. Nikki is 2 and the baby little..so both play hard ...

[Auddymay]

If you are not sure how to correctly get Hunter to obey your commands, try a Petsmart 8 week class. They teach you the basics. Once he knows what you want, you can try using NILF, which is a natural progression with the basic training. You are 100% correct about needing to learn how to communicate your wishes to Hunter. NILF establishes the hierarchy clearly. AFTER Hunter is responding to you consistently, you then can teach the two year old to respect and reward Hunter, all with you right there controlling things. As others have said not all Chows are a good match with children, but with controls in place, such as what Sweetpea does, you can have a good co-exsistence. As to certifications, I cannot answer. Likely, for a more in-depth training, you will need to be a dilligent consumer and really check out trainers and their techniques.

[PurpleKisses]

I have to disagree.... at least based on my experience with Petsmart. I found that they were not very concerned with getting the dogs to mind, nor did they tell the other people, and their unruly dogs to behave. It was distracting and the dogs were obnoxious and I found that Chi-Ching got no personal one on one attention to help with the things I needed work with.

I found a private training club. They work in basic pet manners, obedience, from puppy to advanced and show... to showing and agility and rally.... it was alot more fun and Chi-Ching got direct help from people who know what they are doing. I felt like Petsmart was more about being a show for the customers than actually teaching the dogs anything....

[chow fancier]

I also found a private dog training club in my area. Cinder very much enjoyed her classes there and did well.

[Auddymay]

I agree with Jonathon, it is the teacher that makes it a good experience or not. You can control things a bit by watching the size of the class. When I signed Lily up for her puppy class, I was the first to sign up-and the last! She was the only one in the class! So yeah, she got hands on training, but no socializing, which we did after class in the store.

PK has a better training story (worse, depending on your view) than Petsmart, which is a better warning about 'expert trainers' especially in your case. I wish I could find it in the archives. In a nutshell, she took her Chow to be tested by an 'expert' to see if he was aggressive (cannot remember why) and basically, right in front of PK, the woman proceeded to traumatize her Chow, then proclaim him killer material. By all description, no Chow could have passed the assinine test. That is why you need to research a bit. Basic classes will teach you the mechanics of how to ellicit simple responses. Going into higher teaching levels, I would probably not use Petsmart, unless the trainer had been really good (ours was average).

[PurpleKisses]

Actually, it was an evaluator, and it was something they were doing to show people how to tell a dogs temperament. I was asked to bring Chi-Ching by my trainer because she thought it would be good for people to see a 'good chow'.....
The evaluator started walking out with Chi-Ching(who was a very young puppy) trotting along beside her and wagging his tail like crazy, than out of no where, the lady turned around and bent over in this high pitched screeching sound and ran towards him going 'puppy puppy puppy' and reaching out and basically chasing him..... Chi-Ching tried to run as best he could but he was on a semi short leash.... She stood up and said that was a bad behavior and he should have been happy and wanted to play. I SHOULD have pulled him right then, but she started walking and he followed cautiously but kept wagging his tail. I figured the psychoness had ended...
Then she plops down on the ground and called him to her... he stood there and looked at her. So she started 'reeling' him in on the leash, he panicked and tried to get away and back away from her, he started barking an tried to run around her (he was still obviously freaked out from her screeching display) So she reached over him, and tried to grab him around the waist, well, that was the last straw for him and he started screaming and finally bit her on the arm(didn't leave a mark at all)....
I finally got in and took him and she told me, in front of everyone there, that he was an aggressive dog that should never be around kids and it would be best to have him put to sleep!! This stupid evaluator scared him for life.
Chi-Ching and I set out to prove that stupid witch wrong. He has gone through massive training for obedience(mostly because we find it fun) but also because I wanted to change the stereotypes on chows in my training club. Chi-Ching has been through Puppy, Beginners, Intermediate, 2 Advanced classes, 2 Agility, and now we are in a private, local, beginners class for socialization, this is our second class but I think we are going to go back up to our local and do a more advanced class.

The one thing I learned was to speak up for him. I would give anything to be able to go back and stop that evaluator and smack her upside her screechy little head..... I would have NO problem doing it now......

[Judy Fox]

Good grief - Summer - I fogot about that episode - horrendous for poor little (as he was then- Chi-Ching. Pity you didn't Wop her one there and then..

[chowpups]

I too had a bad experience with a trainer.. We had to pay up front for 6 sessions and I did .. Well first session was fine. The dogs were 12wks old. (suppose to be). I went to the next session and a little austr.shep showed up very skitish and every time Nikki went over to sniff she freaked and bit Nikki.. (more of Nikkis fur in her mouth than treats).. during the 1hr session this dog repeatedly went after Nikki even when we just walked past, so the trainer went and got her horse whip out of her car not knowing what the heck she was going to do with it.. next thing I know shes snapping the whip infront of Nikkis face ..She was going to keep them apart with the whip.? This was a puppy socializing class.. I looked at my husband and we took Nikki and left and never went back. Then the trainer had the nerve to call and ask if I would bring Nikki to a friends house to show her how friendly a chow is and how sweet she is..and also to pose in her pictures for her advertisement.. NO WAY ...she had no way helped in training so she's not getting any credit..
Be picky when it comes to trainers .. Ask for some referrences from previous dog owners.. And yes this trainer is very well known in the area . Has even written books on dog training, but I should have asked how many chows did you ever work with..???

[bellabear27]

I had a similar experience to this actually when i was young. I was only about 5 years old at the time and my grandfather had a rather large German Sheppard, he was eating "dinner" at the time and of course i loved the dog so i decided to pet him. My mother was very near but still the dog turned and put his jaws around the back of my neck he could have easily bit down and killed me in sure but he didnt. Of course within no time my mother came and grabbed him off. I should mention he was a guard dog and trained to attack people who intrude. Anyway I never did have any hard feelings toward the dog and I still love dogs now but I did learn a valuable lesson about personal space for dogs especially when they eat. Thankfully your daughter was not hurt seriously and everything turned out ok.