refusal by lay down

[Loha'sDad]

My boy Loha and I have gone for hundreds of walks in his short life (15 months old tomorrow). In fact, now that I think about it, probably over 1000! We have various routes that can start off in different directions that can then splinter off on divergent paths from many points along the way. If, at any one of those points, Loha doesn't like the route I have chosen, he will simply lay down and look at me, as if to say, "Dad, I don't want to go that way this time------ pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease!?!" Sometimes I give in, sometimes I don't. If I start to laugh he usually knows he is going to get his way. What does your pooch seem to be saying to you in similar circumstances

Loha's Dad

[Jeff&Peks]

Mine says were going my way or no way and could care less if I laugh or smile. She has no problem laying in the middle of the street holding up traffic with cars honking and people yelling, she finds that amusing. Its her walk so I usally don't care which we go as long as were not heading for the freeway. As soon as I walk out the door we stop at the driveay, I say which way she thinks about it for a second then were off on our marry way stoping at every blade of grass or anything that has moved from the day before.

[Loha'sDad]

I could have guessed as much Jeff. You do not believe in the pack leader concept so your dog is the leader of your pack. I do believe in the pack leader concept and I am the pack leader in our pack. Unlike the pack leaders in nature, where the law of the jungle undoubtedly rules supreme, I am usually somewhat benevolent.

Loha's Dad

[MickChick]

I'm closer to Jeff's theory, though not completely. When we walk out the door, I generally let Brandy decide what way she wants to go - about half way through our walk I start directing her back toward the apartment (I do have to leave for work by a certain time!), and once in a while, she'll decide she doesn't want to do that. Usually, she'll plant her feet and put her little fuzz head down and brace herself. I'll either stop where I'm at and wait for her to stop fighting me (I usually lie and tell her I can stand there all day!), laugh at her (in which case, she usually stops and comes my way - Either she doesn't like being laughed at and wants it to stop, OR she's pleased that's she's made me laugh and feels like she's done her job - not sure which!), or I'll just haul on ahead. On the occasions I've hauled on ahead, she has periodically dropped to a down, then rolled over flat on her side, which makes it (for me) impossible to drag her. That DOES, however, always crack me up, and once I start laughing, she gets up and continues on her way - which just happens to be the way I want to go! If I don't have to go to work, and there's not something imerpative waiting for me to do at home at the moment, I'll let her wander around more in the direction of her choice.

I have been pack leader - two male sammies - somebody better be top dog or there were real problems. But I've never yelled at Brandy, Honey or Ralph when they were alive, and I've never had a problem with any of them. We had a mutual respect for each other and they always did (Honey and Ralph) what I wanted them to do, and Brandy is doing the same thing. I have to agree with those who say Chows are not dogs, and can't be treated the same way. Not to say they won't try to get their own way - they CAN be very stubborn, and they certainly don't live to please their people, but I've found mine almost always wind up choosing to please me, just as I choose to please them!

Cecelia

[Jeff&Peks]

I could have guessed as much Jeff. You do not believe in the pack leader concept so your dog is the leader of your pack. I do believe in the pack leader concept and I am the pack leader in our pack. Unlike the pack leaders in nature, where the law of the jungle undoubtedly rules supreme, I am usually somewhat benevolent.

Loha's Dad

I guess your one macho guy but to each his own I don't need to prove my manhood and i sure don't need a house full of guns and guard dogs to live nor do I live in the jungle so spears arn't nesscery either We don't live in fear we enjoy life not hide from it.. Run your pack your way and i will run mine my way, must be the reason I don't have problems, Kids, Chows or life.

[kingalls]

ha! ha! typical Chow behavior! It's not a question of being a pack leader (IMO), you just didn't know that's not the direction you are suppose to go! Shiloh is a mix but she does the sit down/lay down "we're going in the wrong direction" thing alot! Mr. N doesn't do it cuz he's too busy running toward the next spot to tag.

[Chow Chow Mama]

Holden is just happy to go for a walk so he goes wherever I want to go. The only problems I have is when he smells something really interesting and then he digs his feet into the ground and won't budge until he's sure he has sniffed the smell out. Hannah is a happy go lucky gal and couldn't care less where the walk leads us. When she feels she's had enough, though, then she lays down. She has even decided her walk was done in our front yard Holden works well in these situations because she can't stand to let him get too far ahead. She has to be right there with her brother!

[Loha'sDad]

Jeff,

You are very egocentric, judgmental and just plain rude. The absence of facts to support your conclusions appears par for your course. The paucity of oxygen in the Los Angeles air appears to have taken its toll on you.

Loha's Dad

[Boogie and Linda]

This is not directed at anyone in particular but rather, my feelings about the whole "alpha" thing. I believe in being a leader but I think that some people take that to mean being a dictator. Chows do have minds and yes they should be taught to behave but you can't control every single movement. There are toy robot dogs that can be bought that do what a person programs them to do but I wouldn't trade any of my chows and their quirks for one of those.

Now about my experiences.... ....My husband and I take all three chows together. He has the one who is hardest to walk on the leash and I take the other two. We have three chows that all want to go their own way. I find that the faster we move, the more they just go. Fozzie is actually the most stubborn and he will all of a sudden lock all four legs and he won't move until he is ready. I relax the leash and when he relaxes I get him moving again. Mind you when he stops the others have to stop and then they all three want their own direction again. We follow the same path but sometimes have to deviate from it and it throws them all off. They are all fighting to get back onto "our path". Now my daughter will take them out one at a time and it is usually a different route every time and she lets them explore more. Fozzie has locked up on her a few times and she once actually had to pick him up and carry him home. The neighbors thought he was dead as she struggled to carry all 65 lbs of him with all four of his legs still locked straight out in front of him. Talk about a stubborn chow.

[Jeff&Peks]

Jeff,

You are very egocentric, judgmental and just plain rude. The absence of facts to support your conclusions appears par for your course. The paucity of oxygen in the Los Angeles air appears to have taken its toll on you.

Loha's Dad

Yep that I am but my apologies the pack leader thing through me off I thought you were someone else. disregard my response to your response. we can discuss the Ahpha myth some other time.

[TJordan]

Butters hasn't done the lay down thing yet. Although I would prefer it to what he does. He will vere off in one direction and I say, no let's go this way. He huffs and continues with me for a few steps then with full power and all four legs dug in he will vere off in the direction of his choosing. My arm sockets are tired of this approach and would like him to lay down and refuse to move!!!

[Laura]

I'm beginning to think I don't have Chows...all this talk of stubborness, which is just a nicer term for defiance in my mind. Lay down and refuse to move? I would pop a vessel. When we walk we go the direction I want to go and this is accomplished simply by me going in that direction. When one (usually Chloe) has found a good sniff and I'm tired of standing there i give a gentle 'come on' and if that doesn't work ,I give a firm let's go along with a good tug and off we go...same thing if they try to veer in another direction. Now mind u the walks ARE for them and I'm certainly no Caesar Milan expecting heel and perfect leash walking and lord knows I wish I could teach them 'leave it' where the suicidal neighborhood cats are concerned but I let them sniff and walk in front of me and enjoy themselves. I'm not a trainer, I don't scream at nor hit my dogs, but I am in charge...I am MOM...not alpha or pack leader...just MOM, and like any good mother I don't need to abuse my kids to be in charge. Since they were pups the walks have always been the paths I choose..maybe that is why it isn't an issue. I don't know. Like any child they find what works though and if laying down and refusing to budge works then they will keep doing it. If one of mine did that...after I popped a vessel we would go home one way or the other. The offender would be pulled home via the harness or as someone else said picked up and carried home if it came to that. It would most certainly not get him/her what they wanted. It would be a dandy for America's Funniest Home Videos tho .

[vicster605]

Does Butters have a Gentle Leader Harness???
I agree with Laura of course when you have 2 there isn't much room for all that other stuff....I basically do the same as Laura....they go in the direction I want and theres no discussion about it but I do allow them to set the paise and we go as fast or as slow as the girls want with the occasional stop and sniff. I do have the occasional squirrel or cat, or other dog that gives me a challenge from time to time but for the most part.....I'm Mom we go in the direction I want to, and as fast as THEY want to or I would probably do what Laura said.....we would go home ONE WAY OR THE OTHER Of course when you have 95 lbs of Chow you have to keep control or you will loose an arm socket or and could end up on your backside in a couple of seconds flat, don't have anyone to walk with me sooooooo My girls have never layed down on me, but that would end with a trip right back home END OF WALK....there you go NOW LAY DOWN LOL!!!

[PurpleKisses]

I am the "boss" when it comes to how my dog behaves but I also do not restrict his every activity. If he doesn't want to go somewhere, I take it usually as his instincts are higher then mine and will advertantly change my course. He is 3 and does sometimes not want to go a certain way.... I trust him and would rather listen to him then not and run into trouble. I also tend to let him lead the walks and explore what he wants but I also keep my "top dog" role by not allowing him into other peoples yards, or getting into stuff like garbage, or chase other animals. It is a give and take, just like it should be. If you control everything, they are likely to get sick of it and revent their frustration elsewhere(kind of like teenagers).. you have to let them have some freedom but still apply some basic rules... the trick is doing it well enough that they don't even realize you have done it.

Just how I do things...

[Auddymay]

Lily goes where ever I walk her. I am cautious about walking her anywhere she would be at risk of traffic, I have a theory that they will run their walk paths if they happen to escape. If Pip and Lily are outside, and I am letting Pip in, I will ask Lily if she also wants to come in. She will almost always want to stay out. I know this because she lays down and turns her head away from me, as though she didn't hear me! If it is morning, she co-operates because she knows I am leaving and she is coming in regardless of any 'sit-ins'.

[Judy Fox]

As Milly and Mabel are getting older, they are getting to run their lives their way!!
Rightly or wrongly, we let them choose their route on a walk and they do. They do confer sometimes with a series of grunts and harrumphs and so on then they both proceed on the chosen path. If one is walking slightly ahead of the other, the first one will choose and the second will follow on with us faithfully in tow - following on at our end of their leads.
When they were younger and our park was the favourite walk (not so at the moment as it is being totally remodelled and is totally wrecked) and we wanted to go one way, they too would lay down and refuse to move if they wanted to watch the water-fowl on the lake. They loved watching the ducks, geese and swans though the swans did not like them watching when the cygnets were on the water!!
But, I think you probably are experiencing typical chow chow behaviour.

[Loha'sDad]

He is 3 and does sometimes not want to go a certain way.... I trust him and would rather listen to him then not and run into trouble.

Loha has, also, demonstrated a 6th sense at times in avoiding trouble. I therefore usually pay close attention to him when we are out on our walks. For example, sometimes when he appears, at first glance, to be simply loitering, it turns out that there is some unknown person(s) up ahead that might be up to no good. Our walks are usually a give and take but both his and my safety dictates that, after everything is taken into consideration, I will make the final call------- otherwise he would run both of us out in front of a barreling locomotive when chasing a cat. Speaking of which, I find it important to avoid slack in the leash so that he doesn't jerk my arm out of socket when bolting after an unexpected cat. Here is a picture I just took commemorating his being 15 months old today.

HPIM1053.JPG (146.79 KiB) Viewed 7097 times

Loha's Dad

[Babs64]

Sophie lays down when we our out for a walk when she sees another dog that she wants to meet. She doesn't always get to go meet them, but I'll give her a few seconds to scope them out. She also will lay down if someone is walking behind us. She doesn't like strangers behind her so she lays down to let me know she wants them to pass us. All strangers must be within her view at all times so they must be in front of us on walks. I generally allow this. Otherwise she gets to looking over her shoulder so much that she doesn't pay attention to where she is walking and she has tripped me a couple of times by wandering into my legs.

[kingalls]

Shiloh doesn't lay down so much now, she just sits. There are at least 2 or 3 spots where we can expect her to sit. One is across from the house where she made friends with the dogs - even though they moved almost 4 years ago. She still remembers & thinks they might come out. The other is across from an open field. We can't always take her their because of the foxtails. DH will have to tug on her leash a couple of times before she will move on. I'm usually in the lead with Mr. N. He has never not gone in the direction I want him to...if he starts in the wrong direction, I just say "this way" and he adjusts to where I am going...His problem is not watching where he's going! He loves to run or at least trot very fast - but most of the time he's looking to one side or the other. He's almost run into poles, fire hydrants, etc because he's not looking & I have to correct him

[Piff Poff]

I did a long post this morning that doesn't seem to have popped up - it's somewhere in cyberspace I suppose But to sum up, Henry will at times 'ask' to go a certain way, by heading in the direction he wants to go, stopping and looking at me. Sometimes we go his way, sometimes my way. The other day he went completely the wrong way and refused to come back to the right way, so I sort of let him have his head and we curved back to where we should have been. I think he wanted to meet the toddler on the swings.

Henry also does the same as Sophie, he lays down when there are dogs he wants to meet as if he's saying 'come to me my decipel and I will decide if your worthy of sniffing me' or if there is someone behind us he will lay down, which can be really irritating if that someone is just a speck on the horizon

[Princess]

Gabbana lays down when she's tired. Especially at the offleash park.. I'll let her long leash drag (so I can step on it incase that other family is more interesting then I am) and when she's tired she just lays down and rolls around and i'll keep walking.. sometimes she doesn't follow me for a long time so I have to retrieve her. She also lays down when she's playing with other dogs. All my friends have Jack Russels which can bounce around for hours.. Gab gets tired and too hot and lays down. LOL I think she's just lazy though.

[Mally]

Lychee is just plain embarrassing with that. Once we were walking back home..she must have been around 6 months old and good 16kg...anyway there were two dogs behind us and she was going crazy to say hello to them. I didn't let her because the owner wasn't very friendly so she completely cracked it, layed down and rolled onto her side and refused to get up! I had to pick her up and carry her!!!! People were laughing ... and I'm sure Lychee was too... She always lays down when she wants her way....she has tantrums in the middle of the street stomping her feet, snorting and trying to nip me ... or when I don't give her food that she wants (which is usually whatever I am having) she will crack it and flip her bowl over Oh well...that's why I am not having any children - I can't even raise a dog

[Judy Fox]

That is so funny! I can just imagine her throwing a tantrum in the street. Chow chows, what would we do without them.

[sweetpea]

Gracie laid down in the middle of an intersection, next to a school with a car coming right at us because she realized we were going the wrong way. She was the entertainment of the school that day, and became known as the "puppy chowchow" who said NO! I dont want to go that way. She still pulls stunts like that but mostly if she lays down refusing to move its because we have to wait for the squirrel to come down out of the tree or its to watch the rabbit and wait for that perfect moment to go for it. I don't mind the the refusals to move as long as its not in the middle of a street.

[Judi]

Hi . I haven't been here in a while. I am Marley's grandmother. He is a handful, but, what love. I started working the midnight shift and I suffer such guilt leaving him when I sleep during the day. I have a lot of problems with him and my children's friends entering the house. Last week I took him on a mountain hike and he did very very well. ( Well for me he pulled me all the way up) Coming down my companion walked him and I walked ahead warning the trekkers whose dogs were lose. (vermont) I am still very uncertain about him. But, I will say he is the BEST smartest dog I have ever met. He agrees to allow my schipperkee Paris to believe she reins the Queendom, When it is clear he could easily snack on her. I have had some advice from a groomer to cut him before the very cold weather sets in. NEED ADVICE, Narley is prone to eye and ear infections. I live on Long Island in New york and it is very damp. He is matted up terrible though. Just by his collar. Any suggestions.??? Thanks