Breeders, puppy mills and testing labs

[Sojourner11]

All I did was repost what I heard on the radio, I didn't tell anyone to do anything.

"Without breeders you would get *dogs* but nobody would get chow chows anymore, and you know it."

Sounds like a crowd splitter to me, Now that comment would split people, you just told me my 100% purebreed Chow is just a dog beouse she came from a rescue.

I probably didn't explain myself right because I have nothing against purebreed or mix rescue chows. What I just said, if you want, is that if Pekoe is a purebreed chow, it's thanks to her breeder.

No more chow breeders = no more purebreed chows = no more chow mixes neither, you'll get *dogs*.
Sure dogs are fine, but as chow breed lovers, we *need* chow breeders in a way or another even if you don't like it!

I should have clarified that I am speaking strictly at the American market and situation. I have no idea nor do I care about the rest of the world. We kill millions upon millions of dogs a year here in the US. If you live in a land where dog killing and overpopulation isn't an issue then please appreciate the fact that your countries situation is different and don't apply that train of thought to our gruesome problem.

[Coco Chow]

You're talking overpopulation, I was talking chow breed only.

I have no idea nor do I care about the rest of the world.

Nice.

[Sojourner11]

You're talking overpopulation, I was talking chow breed only.

I have no idea nor do I care about the rest of the world.

Nice.

This thread was about all dogs in general and the grisly fate that befalls many, not just Chows only. You might have a shortage in France, of both dogs and Chows, I don't know or care as I don't live in France. I have enough to worry about in the U.S.A. not to include the rest of the planet.

[Red Dragon]

-If you have a market that is saturated with units, and you add new units then the value of the existing units goes down.
-When the price for units is high and cost of entry in the market is low, then new producers will enter the market.

Better units do not help the population problem, but only the health of the "used" market in the future.

Just because your numbers don't add up only means that you are a poor business person and will need to produce more to offset your losses.

It is the premium that is paid for puppies that fuel the greed for puppy mills & Co. in the first place.

So yes, those who have produced, sold, and bought share in the blame. But that also includes those who don't spay and neuter as producers. Toss in those who discard their units with no disposal costs and you get exactly what we have today. A effing mess.

And in these cases the only solution (if the producers don't come together and take charge) will be govt intervention. I personally would like to see larger permit costs (to own,produce, and sell) pets. Lesser amounts for secondary market units to drive their value up and easing their situation. Track all units and make ALL who participate in this problem responsible for the situation they create.

If you have obtained your dog through the secondary market(non puppy-non breeder) you are much cleaner than the rest. But when you display your dog (advertise)and others see, want and go out and enter the market via a primary market venue then you just became part of the problem as well. So all you rescuers make sure you educate others every chance you get.

Sean, I have a big news alert for you, I am not in business to breed, it is a hobby, and it is a huge money pit, that was the point I was trying to get across. If I were doing this because I wanted to make money I would be doing like the rest of the breeders out there trying to make money, health checks would be at a minimum or none at all, I would be feeding the cheapest food I can find, the conditions would be horrible where the dogs live, they would be matted from head to toe, they would be left outside in little huts, I wouldn't guarantee the dogs, I wouldn't care what they look like, all of my dogs would be creams, they would get bred every time they cycled, and they would be neglected. None of that is going on at my place.

I breed these dogs because I love the breed and I am trying to rid them of all the health problems, at least in the ones I breed, I can't control everyone else.

[Red Dragon]

Jeff and Sean, if you guys want to get mad at me about breeding I am about to start breeding black angus cattle, and they will get bred just as quick as they are ready for the next calf, a regular little meat market! Mmmmmm Ribeye! Wonder how many cows my breedings will send to the meat market?

[Sojourner11]

Jeff and Sean, if you guys want to get mad at me about breeding I am about to start breeding black angus cattle, and they will get bred just as quick as they are ready for the next calf, a regular little meat market! Mmmmmm Ribeye! Wonder how many cows my breedings will send to the meat market?

And on the subject of Sam loosing money while raising animals, CATTLE! ahahahaha Thats perfect. In case you didn't know grain and feed prices are at a all time high and cattle have the worst feed-to-meat ratio. I suppose you are going to pasture feed them but with the drought you will need a lot of land for just one to graze. And you think your vet bill for your Chows was high?

Maybe you should think about raising rabbits, excellent feed to meat ratio, healthy lean meat, give you fur, and can be killed via the CAK method. Plus rabbit dropping made excellent fertilizer or can be used to raise worms.

[Red Dragon]

If anything major happens to a cow it's time to break out the trusty rifle! It doesn't make sense to put a bunch of money into a cow that is worth $500 - $800. I have the perfect piece of land for them to graze on, no intentions of spending a bunch of money on feed. The land is low land with two creeks that converge on the lower end.

Rabbits are in the plans too, I raised them 30 years ago, so I know all about them.

The cows and the rabbits will help pay for the Chow addiction. It will be like Green Acres!

[Jeff&Peks]

Check your litter inventory and see if you have a chow that even comes close to these two shelter/rescue Chows. These are just two examples of thousands of Chows puppies/adults sitting in shelters waiting to die. these two got off lucky. the first one is at west texas rescue.






"Bettering the Chow breed", what a crock sales pitch that is, but I guess as long as people believe it your in business. I would still like to know what it is your bettering. I know, your going to say physical problems but if it weren't for AKC standards you wouldn't have Physical problems, yep Chows were born years ago with eye lid and hip problems, Those are AKC created.

Breeders, trainers and AKC should be locked up for fraud.

[Red Dragon]

Jeff, you have me all figured out, I guess I should just go crawl back in my hole and die! You really know your stuff on health problems and why the breed has so many too, you really should write a book so all of us stupid breeders will know what to do!

[Jeff&Peks]

Jeff, you have me all figured out, I guess I should just go crawl back in my hole and die! You really know your stuff on health problems and why the breed has so many too, you really should write a book so all of us stupid breeders will know what to do!

Don't worry about it, between Cows and Moonshine you should do ok. Maybe you could earn some extra money doing odd jobs around the trailer park.

[Red Dragon]

Hey, now I didn't think of that, there may be an old stil up in the mountains, maybe I could fire that back up, then I could sell moonshine to the trailer park!

[Auddymay]

Grow some wildwood weed on those bottoms, Sam. Then instead of Green Acres, you can be at Happy Acres!

[Red Dragon]

Brushy Mountain State Prison is on top of the mountain, so I better be careful! The state correctional facility is just down the road too!

[Auddymay]

SEE? you already have a ready made customer base!

[Red Dragon]

I would be worried they might steal my crop!

[chowwoman]

Jeff, Seriously, were there no quality breeders, all we would have are generic dogs and we would lose all the wonderful qualities that we love in the chow chow. Surely you wouldn't want that, would you?

[Jeff&Peks]

Here's the website of the person that made that comment incase anyone wants to write him and complain. what I don't understand is out of everything that was said, puppymills, test labs, buying dogs in bulk, B-license dog distributors, dog fighting and Bills sitting in congress that could declare rescues as terrorist groups, Breeder is the only word people picked up on... I guess shelter stockers are the biggest priority not the safety of the animal. That kind of thinking explains why animal abuse, exploitation and shelters exist and will continue to exist....

http://www.lcanimal.org/

What he actually said was for every one dog that is bought from a breeder 2 dogs die in a shelter. To me in reality it should be one dog bought one dog dies, The breeder dog just took the home away from the dog sitting in the shelter. The breeder bought dog will most likely be occupying the empty cage in a year or two anyway so it evens out, it dosn't seem to be working that way though or we wouldn't have 4 million dogs a year dieing in shelters.

[zingara_princepessa]

I personally would like to see larger permit costs (to own,produce, and sell) pets. Lesser amounts for secondary market units to drive their value up and easing their situation. Track all units and make ALL who participate in this problem responsible for the situation they create.

Dude.....I was SO happy to read this post. Permit costs, standards and regulation! That's what should be required for breeding as a business. Jeez, even the hookers at places like the Mustang Ranch in Nevada are required to go to the doctor regularly for checkups. Wouldn't it be fab if there were requirements for breeders? (By the way, there are no backyard breeders doing the breeds any favors.)

Likewise, potential buyers should be required to undergo a home check and to meet other requirements that would prove he/she had done their homework. No one should be able to just walk through the door, plunk down some money and walk away with a dog.

I won't "brag" about my own rescue efforts. The people on this board who know me well know what my average week is like, and their opinions are the ones I care about. I will say this: I see dogs every single day who live or die on the whim of the people who are supposed to care for them. Every single one of us is responsible for the over crowding and euthanasia statistics in this country. All of us, no exceptions.

[Auddymay]

Part of the equasion is that we as customers are driving the breeding bus, so to speak. Buying from good breeders does not cause that breeder to see green and pump out more Chowlings. Buying from a puppymill or backyard breeder will encourage more litters.

Also, how much does any breeder really know about the buyer? It is the buyer/dumper that is the problem. Jacking up the price is not the answer either. I have seen some very expensive PB's at the end of tethers their whole lives, or even rehomed and replaced, when the spoilt owner feels the animal was not the right fit. Since we can't control those sorts of A-holes, we concentrate on stopping the breeding and buying.

The majority of us at this site are not the ones who are taking their Chows to the shelters. I have had 3 PB's in my life. My irish setter was the product of a one time breeding my parent's friends did back in the 1970's. We had one litter as well. Of the 4 pups, we adult children kept 3 and gave one to a friend. Mine was Katie. My second was Bud the Boxer. We got him at 16 weeks because the owner of the mother needed money. He was her pick to keep of the litter. Then I bought Lily. None were ever re-homed (the jury is still out on that stinker Lily, though). The rest of my pets- both feline and canine were all dump jobs or rescues. Pip is a cardbord box at the market puppy.

What is my point, you ask? My point is, that we at the site who buy our Chows are not the problem. It is the people in that line waiting to turn in poochie that is the problem. That I choose to have a puppy instead of an adult rescue is my personal business. I am not harming the situation, just not helping this time. Most of us that have been around for a spell have rescued an animal a time or two. Or more. When I lose Pippy or Lily to death, I am sure my next one will be a rescue. Until then, I will not be justifying buying Lily.

[Jeff&Peks]

Ok Jeff..Just apopt all of the dogs yourself and pay for them..Instead of complaining to people what you cannot controll yourself..Stop controlling Jeff and imposing your communistic view point upon others trying to preserve the good in the breed. You ought to be applauding red dragon and not abusing her great and careful way of her breeding. Stop generalizing Jeff...You need to get a life,
Jonathan.

That was a personal attack so I am responding. If Red dragon paid Him/her (has to be a her) to say that then its ok

Communistic? What are you around 80 years old and watch Jerry Springer Some of you people crack me up with the idiotic crap you come up with If you have complaints about the communist tell it to China not me. What is your life, sitting in chat group spreading terroristic threats? That was good for a laugh though you made me spit out my diet coke... By the way, you responding to me, I just controlled you. Your the kind of people I look for when I post. Its people like you that get people to read my post.

That post was a crosspost I didn't write it I retyped it. Here is another communists to wrte your complaints to:

Cherokee Tribune
Lory Weeks

Buying pets from breeders increases shelter deaths

animals in the U.S. and several thousand in the United Kingdom are euthanized in shelters every year because prospective adopters chose to pay a puppy pimp instead of opening their homes to a pound pup.

Many puppies advertised for sale come form puppy mills, but buying from "hobby" breeders is not a good idea either, as it rewards them for adding another litter to the overpopulation crisis.

Many breeders sell dogs as "show quality," which discourages buyers from spaying and neutering, thereby adding exponentially to the overpopulation crisis with every litter. As long as dogs and cats are dying in animal shelters for lack of homes, no breeding can be considered "responsible."

Breeders actively fight laws designed to combat companion animal overpopulation. This creates more money for breeders and death for millions of animals.

There is no excuse for breeding or for buying from breeders. You should always adopt from a shelter to "save a life," not line a greedy breeder's pocket.


Lory Weeks

Canton

[Red Dragon]

Jeff, I see you are still being a smarta$$, and a clueless one at that. The bill on this litter is at three grand now, and I just had to bury four puppies, and came real close to loosing PoPo at one point. You really need to keep you stupid comments to yourself before you seriously tick me off, I am not making any money breeding dogs, you couldn't stretch that in a million years. Maybe I should have mailed you these four puppies and let you bury them, maybe that would be an eye opener?

[Jeff&Peks]

Jeff, I see you are still being a smarta$$, and a clueless one at that. The bill on this litter is at three grand now, and I just had to bury four puppies, and came real close to loosing PoPo at one point. You really need to keep you stupid comments to yourself before you seriously tick me off, I am not making any money breeding dogs, you couldn't stretch that in a million years. Maybe I should have mailed you these four puppies and let you bury them, maybe that would be an eye opener?

Red Dragon. You just buried four Puppies? what happened your experiments to better the Chow breed go wrong? "We are bettering the breed look we just buried four of them and oh my it cost me my breeding money", OK, lets hear more on breeder educating.

You BYB's better leave the breeding educating to the educated dog breeders (AKC) you breedera are destroying them with your I'm all that comments.

Unless your buying Chow puppies from a Blue ribbon breeder and seeing Oil painting of prize winners hanging on the wall, and a special room for all the prizes, trophies and ribbons from the big dog shows (Crufts, Eukanuba) your buying from a BYB, you have been had. I doubt to many people could afford to buy a Chow from a Blue ribbon breeder plus most don't sell to the public anyway.

Blue ribbon breeder is my own term I don't know what the "TOP" Breeders are called. I also don't know nor watch dog zoo' s so all I know is Crufts and Eukanuba....Some guy sitting on a farm selling Cows and Moonshine is not a TOP breeder.

Top, bottom, good or bad they all should be shut down as far as I'm concerned untill the shelters have to close from lack of supply.

[Red Dragon]

Jeff, you are so right, I think we should just leave all the breeding up to the puppymills, good luck with the future of the breed smarta$$!!!

[CoraP.]

I guess I just don't understand. If you had to bury 4 puppies, why would you ever want to do such a thing again? Plus you say you almost lost the mom?!? Then you offer to send the dead puppies to Jeff to bury as an "eye - opener" ??? If I've ever heard anything more callous and unfeeling, it is that comment. Please, enjoy and love the dogs you have, and leave the breeding to those who know what they're doing!

[Red Dragon]

Cora, you can take your opinions and shove them, so can Jeff. All you experts on here need to start breeding these dogs, because the ones of us that do are obviously all idiots and just can't get it right. Go buy some more puppymill dogs, Jeff's had cancer and cost him a fortune, and look at the vet bills on the rest of the puppymill dogs, you people just don't get it and never will. You have no idea what I go through to breed these dogs, clueless morons!